Basic Free Energy Device

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,
I tried to post earlier, but couldn't get it to post. Maybe was me?

At work, but want to try this as soon as I get to the shop.

What data do we need on this? I have a oscilloscope, but sadly have not learned how to use it yet.

Teach an old dog new tricks? Ok. Will try.

For starters just log voltages on the batteries and time. So like every hour measure and see where your at. Include load and how much current your pulling. Do that a few times then try to up the load. Put 2 light bulbs in series and run 24 off of your boost converter. Then log some more see if your averages out better.
Just play with a bit. Later when we determine whether or not its going to work we'll get the scope to work.

Cheers
Matt

[wantomake]

Ok

Matt,
I tried to post earlier, but couldn't get it to post. Maybe was me?

At work, but want to try this as soon as I get to the shop.

What data do we need on this? I have a oscilloscope, but sadly have not learned how to use it yet.

Teach an old dog new tricks? Ok. Will try.

[Matthew Jones]

So here is my plan to move forward. I attached 2 images to this message. Look at the first one.

Slide one

You can ignore the switch on slide1. But look how the voltages all work out in the circle. This is basically what you are doing now if you have a setup going. The current on the ground side, moving to the serial batteries is only -3.2 volts over the source voltage at 25.5 volt.

You have to remember zero is where you put it. These batteries are both positive and negative and depending on how want to look at things you chose where to put the meter or scope leads.

With 3.2 volt we are seeing the tipping of the serial battery charge rate. Batt 1 holds up better than Batt2.

Look at slide2. Again ignore the switch.

Now we have adjusted the output to put out the same amount (Within reason) as source batteries. We will need a serial load. 2x 12 volt bulbs run in series to handle this power. But now on the ground side we get -14.3 volts.
We should see an improvement in the performance of the serial batteries. If we don't then what I have seen in the past and my theory around it is wrong.
All is not lost from that though. In fact that can answer a really big question and help us narrow down what is happening.
Don't get me wrong I am fairly positive that I am not on the wrong road, but if the data comes back and says the batteries are performing better for longer periods of time then we need to hone in on that effect. We need to peak out the performance on that side and start knocking down the things that are costing us.

So now in Both slides I have a switch which I told you to ignore, but that switch may change the effect altogether. It can allow us to continue to run the circuit while adding more modulation. Don't be scared of a transistor and a Arduino. Embrace it!! And you have no worries because I can teach ya how to use it. Its so simple you'll laugh at yourself later for not using them sooner.

Now the only thing I see at the moment that is limiting factor is the boost module we have chosen to work with. Specs say minimum 10 volt input. I think I have already run it lower than that but if that gets in the way. I'll give you guys a simple little circuit to go with your Arduino and WALLA another little problem solved.

I could go on, but I really want to say just get your basic setup running, have a little faith. These things take time, patients and the will to understand. You cannot just pull them out of your hat. Especially when everyone uses different stuff. But when your done and your only charging once a month and doing hundreds of watt hours of work you'll realize how powerful this can be.

Everything you do from that point on, will relate what you could learn here.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

See thats kinda the wrong way to think about what we're trying to do. I have seen these hold steady and I am getting the parts together to try it again on a small scale. I have done this now on a larger scale several times, but we need a smaller scale model to work.So everyone can have it. So its not you copying me....
It all of us putting something together and collecting the data.
From that we can derive a formula or worst case decide it doesn't work on small scale.
But it does.. it's just a matter finding what works.

So there is no replication guidance for me to give you.

If your 2 top serial batteries are not discharging equally you are already seeing the effect I am talking about. Batt1 and Batt2 are in serial and Batt1 stays charged more than Batt2 most of the time that means the power coming back is not high enough to charge both batteries. Maybe we need more ripple in the current and in that case removing the smoothing capacitors or adding a switch on the load side might be needed.
But until ya'll start documenting what your doing and with what and the numbers to go with it including voltage,current and time I have no way of making suggestions.
Thats why I say get something running. Log your info then we can start making suggestions.
As long as you want, we'll all work on this, and we'll all make it work.

For some time I have settled on the fact that once I make something work and I am convinced its working I do not need replication. I have nothing to prove to anyone.
If WE want this thing to work, we are going to have to work on it. If your still not clear on why it should happen I'll explain it again. But WE all have to work the bugs out of our own systems. Thats trial by fire. LOL

Matt

[Mario]

Hi Matt,

IF one can get the effect of not seeing the primaries drop anymore, can't the situation be "frozen" by putting a load on batt 3 so that it stays at that voltage?
I haven't been able to see the primaries not decrease yet, still trying.

You said bigger loads are better. I've asked this before and you said to just throw something together, but I think the more precise you describe a situation the more easily it can be replicated. There already are enough variables.. So my question is, when you get the effect, approx. how many amps are you pulling from the primaries, what C-rate? I think this could help. One may pull 1 amp from 200 Ah batts, or 1 amp from 7 Ah batts, nots exactly the same…

thanks,
Mario

[Matthew Jones]

Turion,
Ok. I understand now. There's no gaining in this system, only maintainable voltage to glean usable energy to do work.

I have the tools you just mentioned, and some knowledge to setup and get it running. Except the switching with an Arduino programmed system. I have (9) marine deep cycle batteries. Yes I can watch the voltages,as you posted, stop, disconnect, slide each battery to the next position as Matt posted. Reconnect the batteries. Start again. Sadly if this is the only method other than physically switching these (5) positions , then I'm only taking up space here and wasting you guys time as well as my own. I've learned to not try and build an EV with a bicycle builders knowledge and finances. Best to face the truth for my own good and not slow down this great idea you and Matt have presented here.

Thanks guys,
wantomake

The point is not to have to switch the batteries that often. In fact never if you can get it to hold steady, while being above the limit. Big loads work better you never know until you try. Please document what your measurements are and keep us informed.

Matt

[wantomake]

Arduino

Wantomake,


Two things.
1. Whether this works or not is dependent on two things. That the voltage hitting battery 3 is a couple volts higher than battery 3.
2. That the voltage coming out of the boost converter PLUS the voltage of battery 3 is higher than the total voltage across the primaries. That's why balancing this becomes so tricky. When your battery 3 is down to 10 volts and you are only putting out 14.5 from your boost converter, chances are your primaries aren't getting what they need n the negative side. And as battery three charges and the primaries discharge, everything changes. The easiest thing to do to make sure it all works is make sure your battery 3 is at a certain voltage when you start...charge it to a specific voltage, and then rotate batteries. You keep everything in a range that you can easily control. That's the reason for the five batteries. So things can be rotated. And using an Arduino, you can make that happen. It isn't particularly easy, but neither is it impossible. We have all the tools. We just have to put them all together.

Then you run a motor, an inverter or a transformer between the positives. And THATS where you pull power out. There are no "gains" in the batteries in this system. It just maintains and runs the load for free.

Turion,
Ok. I understand now. There's no gaining in this system, only maintainable voltage to glean usable energy to do work.

I have the tools you just mentioned, and some knowledge to setup and get it running. Except the switching with an Arduino programmed system. I have (9) marine deep cycle batteries. Yes I can watch the voltages,as you posted, stop, disconnect, slide each battery to the next position as Matt posted. Reconnect the batteries. Start again. Sadly if this is the only method other than physically switching these (5) positions , then I'm only taking up space here and wasting you guys time as well as my own. I've learned to not try and build an EV with a bicycle builders knowledge and finances. Best to face the truth for my own good and not slow down this great idea you and Matt have presented here.

Thanks guys,
wantomake

[Matthew Jones]

Just uploaded this.
wantomake

3battery setup run - YouTube

2 things I would do is make sure all the batteries are charged, even the charge battery before starting. Then run the system as long as you can keeping your serial batteries above discharged voltage. I would not go lower than 11 volt or so on each one, but 12 is safer.
Make note of the time it takes to discharge, your current and voltage on the load. My self to start I would run light bulbs.

Also hooking a generator straight to battery is sure death. A battery is negative resistor and consumes all the available current so you have to choke it. You can create a potential between that gen and the positive of the charge battery. Just hook the ground of the gen to grounds on the system and put bulb between the gen and the charge battery. That put the power back into the system while getting work done.

Note all your times and voltages.

Do you have a scope?

Matt

[Turion]

Wantomake,


Two things.
1. Whether this works or not is dependent on two things. That the voltage hitting battery 3 is a couple volts higher than battery 3.
2. That the voltage coming out of the boost converter PLUS the voltage of battery 3 is higher than the total voltage across the primaries. That's why balancing this becomes so tricky. When your battery 3 is down to 10 volts and you are only putting out 14.5 from your boost converter, chances are your primaries aren't getting what they need n the negative side. And as battery three charges and the primaries discharge, everything changes. The easiest thing to do to make sure it all works is make sure your battery 3 is at a certain voltage when you start...charge it to a specific voltage, and then rotate batteries. You keep everything in a range that you can easily control. That's the reason for the five batteries. So things can be rotated. And using an Arduino, you can make that happen. It isn't particularly easy, but neither is it impossible. We have all the tools. We just have to put them all together.

Then you run a motor, an inverter or a transformer between the positives. And THATS where you pull power out. There are no "gains" in the batteries in this system. It just maintains and runs the load for free.

[wantomake]

Video

Just uploaded this.
wantomake

3battery setup run - YouTube

[Wistiti]

desulfating....

Mabe i should not post this here but i assume if you try this, it is all on your own.... ... and anyway you are aware it is not the only dangerous things you haved tried! (If not dont try this!!!!!!!!) and please,wear the safty equippement!

So as the setup shown by Dave and Matt need at least 5 batterys it will be nice if we can get 5 of those really cheapply.. so as you may already know, some salvaged battery may be good but they are sulfated...

here is my way to bring them back to life with this systeme.
First find a high power resistive element ( i use an oven top low ohm resistive heater) with proper care completly short the sulfated battery.

Reed the voltage of the batt when you short it.
It may reed low voltage. if the short is less than 3vdc keep it for 10 sec the load may become warm.
After this time, charge the battery (in the "3rd position" of the system Dave and Matt show us) until it reach 15vdc.
Reapeat this procedure until you reach 6vdc as shorting. After that you may have a good battery to put in this system...

As i said before this is a dangerous methode and if you try it you assume the entire responsabillity of it!!! IF YOU ARE NOT SHURE DONT TRY IT!!!

It is just a cheap way to try this systeme .

But please, take proper care!

Ciao!

[wantomake]

A little success??

Dave and Matt,
Not sure what is called a long run? I don't let these marine batteries discharge below a certain voltage. The longest run so far has been 1 1/2 hours but only with two battery setup and your modified motor as a load between the positives.

Now running the three battery setup with a MY1016 stock motor coupled to the modified motor as generator between positives. Boost converter connected as instructed and set output to 14.50 volts. The #3 position has two batteries in parallel.

The modified Matt motor is wound per the pdf, except it has tri-filar winding that is series connected parallel wound. The output increased from 8 vdc to 25 vdc. But I don't have the generator output connected to any load. Tried to loop it back to the setup but really slowed the stock motor badly. So for now (as I post this it's running) will just see how this run does.

Seems to be having some success.
wantomake

[Wistiti]

Oh I didn't know you were in Canada, sorry I didn't mean to get your hopes up. LOL.

Matt

hehe! its ok it will give me the time to made some test without the converter so i will see the difference when i recive it..!

[Matthew Jones]

You give me some hope to recive mine soon! I ordered it the 30 may... And i am in the east coast of Canada...

Oh I didn't know you were in Canada, sorry I didn't mean to get your hopes up. LOL.

Matt

[Wistiti]

are you ever lucky, my deliveries usually run to 5 weeks. And I am on the west coast. My May 2nd order for a K type thermocouple for my brass foundry is not here yet!

But that said, the boosters came through in 6 days, a record!

Ron

You give me some hope to recive mine soon! I ordered it the 30 may... And i am in the east coast of Canada...