Basic Free Energy Device

[wantomake]

Post #1123

Thanks Matt,
Yes I do try to balance the setup with the pot on the booster. But the inverter will shut down unless the voltages are correct. This inverter has auto safety alarm cutoff if too high or too low.

But I'll have more time to test this am until the heat runs me out of my shop.

If my math is correct, the setup gained voltage and ran a cfl for free last night. So that is a first for any setup I've tried.

Looking to purchase stronger boost converter as well to handle bigger loads.

This is an interesting setup thus far.
Thanks again.

Thanks dragon,
If you re-read post #1123 that is what I tried to do. But good advice. Sometimes you can't find the sweet spot. But never the less I'll try again as the heat subsidies here. Starting to feel like a vampire that can only work at night....

[Wistiti]

Wistiti,

I have used two different inverters, a 2300W PowerBright and a 500W Stanley. The testing that I have been doing the last couple of weeks has all been the Stanley.

My data allocation was running out, so I couldn't post this last week.

Bob

Ok Thanks for the reply!

[SkyWatcher]

Hi bob, if by data allocation, you mean you're running out of storage to post images, then i suggest 'imgur', no registering or anything, it's free.
peace love light

[[email protected]]

Wistiti,

I have used two different inverters, a 2300W PowerBright and a 500W Stanley. The testing that I have been doing the last couple of weeks has all been the Stanley.

My data allocation was running out, so I couldn't post this last week.

Bob

[dragon]

Point of no return...

Like Matt said, you can adjust the boost to find the most stable area - you can adjust to discharge the single or to discharge the series. Finding a middle ground where both series and single are stable would require some very efficient circuits.

When you get to a point where the single battery is stable, not charging or discharging, then you've basically created a current loop between the boost and inverter. At that point the series batteries are supplying the extra amperage needed to sustain the loop. Quickie diagram below excluding any losses.

If you had 2 circuits that were 100% efficient - one, the boost circuit drawing say 1 amp input at .5 amp output at double the voltage and two, a buck converter taking the .5 amp converting it back to 1 amp at 1/2 the voltage feeding the boost you could remove the batteries for a theoretically endless run.

The key to longevity here boils down to the overall efficiency of the circuits and loads themselves.

The circuit I posted sometime back operates on a 50% duty cycle where the energy is shared through the coil and load during the on cycle and the off cycle the stored energy in the coil gives a small charge back based on the coils parameters ( .5 x LI^2 ) . The 50% duty alone would give the appearance of running twice the time of a normal load. The charge back cycle would allow up to 1/2 of the energy to be returned, in reality, you might be able to recover up to 25% of that half giving the appearance of even longer than 2x runs.

I think there may be some interesting possibilities in uniting some highly efficient buck/boost circuits. Possibly a buck circuit built into a transformer in place of the inverter...

[wantomake]

Larger boost converter?

Matt,
I did try a larger load of 70 watt @ 0.5 amp on the setup but it really dropped the potential difference fast and the inverter shut down. I adjusted the boost converter in both high and low, still same result.

Did you have any better results?

Do I need a higher capacity boost converter?

I did run a 37 watt bulb for a short time, but the 101° heat was too much on me and the system.

Stay cool and hope you have better results.

[Matthew Jones]

You should be able to check current to the load and back from the boost converter. 1 ohm 100 watt resistor will give you current on your meter so you don't have to add an in line amp meter. Just simple enough to calibrate it all.

On another note it wouldn't hurt to charge all the batteries, then get it started. If you find you can get stable then make a long run, then you have baseline for a regular run with 3 batteries as a conventional supply.

Matt

[dragon]

I've had Matt's latest variation running for about an hour, I'm using 3 - 8ah SLA's, a 150w inverter and a boost circuit as laid out in his diagram driving a 3.5 watt load on the inverter (LED bulb). I can confirm what he's seeing. Once you dial in the boost it runs pretty stable.

It appears to run the inverter from the boost converter while the series batteries are offsetting any losses to maintain charge on the single. The boost converter uses X amount of watts to maintain the circuits needs at the lower voltage while boosting up the voltage at a lower amperage to maintain the difference. The only thing that gets used in the series batteries is what's needed to cover losses. Watts in = watts out - efficiency.

I am humbled by its simplicity - A big hat tip to you Matt !

I haven't put the watt meters on it yet, I'm going to let it run for awhile and just monitor it, I'll put the watt meters on it later tonight when I have some time...

Edit: Update.... the single battery, although the voltage seemed stable was drained. At about an hour and 40 minutes the single's voltage started bouncing. Shutting it down I found the voltage had dropped to below 11 volts. The series batteries stayed at or around 24.9 by the end. So it is running the inverter from the boost charger and the single battery. This might not show up on high ah batteries for quite some time depending on the load. So next will be the watt meter set up to see whats going on....

[dragon]

Unless your boost converter is near 100% efficient, every time the inductor is switched you loose about 20% of your power to ground. Maybe only 15% but most of them run about 80% efficient. So thats the biggest problem.

Now that said:
Solutions - 80V, 98% Efficient, 4-Switch Synchronous Buck-Boost Controller IC with 4 Regulation Loops

This chip is viable up to 120 watt @ 12 volt, but they are $12 a piece and correlating parts + PCB another $45 - 60 or so.

But depending on your skills if you read through the data sheet on the chip and what monitors it performs, most of it could be programmed on micro controller and the switching is just an Hbridge. I have been looking at it for some time now for another project.

Just using 2 batteries will raise efficiency though but not to the same level.

Matt

That switch looks sweet ! I'd bet it's similar to that used in the vaping industry in the buck/boost units to drive the resistor coil. I've looked into those like it myself. If the MPPT controllers weren't so expensive it might be another viable tool for this type of transformation, they are quite efficient in converting voltages.

Anyway, I did a 30 min test on the 2 battery ( used 2 cap banks ) and calculated the result.... not so good... to many conversions to eek out any gains.

This afternoon I'll set up a 3 battery circuit with some watt meters to monitor it in real time. Similar to what you have currently going ( smaller scale ).

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks Matt,
Yes I do try to balance the setup with the pot on the booster. But the inverter will shut down unless the voltages are correct. This inverter has auto safety alarm cutoff if too high or too low.

But I'll have more time to test this am until the heat runs me out of my shop.

If my math is correct, the setup gained voltage and ran a cfl for free last night. So that is a first for any setup I've tried.

Looking to purchase stronger boost converter as well to handle bigger loads.

This is an interesting setup thus far.
Thanks again.

Well one thing you might try contrary to what I said before is to charge the serial batts and discharge the charge battery all the way. Let them rest and see if that won't get you start a little better.

Still sounds like you had good results.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

I realize that what I'm doing may not be directly related to the exact "replication" of Matt's work. I tend to focus on things I don't understand so I can learn. Then, I turn things around flip them over twist it all up so I can look at all angles of what I'm doing -

Below is a picture of my spaghetti ball of wire, switches, batteries, transformer etc... that picture shows a complete balance of energy being shuttled back and forth between the batteries and cap bank. At 170 hz it holds at 25.7 on the batteries and 13.4 on the caps. The interesting part is that when I lower the frequency I can charge the cap bank while draining the batteries and raise the frequency I can charge the battery bank and drain the caps. There were no loads running during this test, simply a curiosity of anomalies I saw in prior testing. It appears to be acting as a resonant circuit between the batteries and caps through the coil - off resonance high or low we get a different directional energy shuttle. I can measure everything but the batteries so this leaves one variable that is unknown. My own little quest for some answers...

So while pondering the tests, the 3 battery system and creating a potential difference it occurred to me that 2 batteries and a boost converter basically does the same thing.... so I scratched some thoughts on my white board then put together some quick tests... can anyone explain the difference??? The diagram shows a 2 battery system using a simple manual DPDT switch to shuttle the batteries - one is being drained while the other is charging.

Today I'll wire up a 2 battery system to drive an inverter between the two using 2 500 farad cap banks.... it should be reasonably easy to measure the losses/recovery...

Unless your boost converter is near 100% efficient, every time the inductor is switched you loose about 20% of your power to ground. Maybe only 15% but most of them run about 80% efficient. So thats the biggest problem.

Now that said:
Solutions - 80V, 98% Efficient, 4-Switch Synchronous Buck-Boost Controller IC with 4 Regulation Loops

This chip is viable up to 120 watt @ 12 volt, but they are $12 a piece and correlating parts + PCB another $45 - 60 or so.

But depending on your skills if you read through the data sheet on the chip and what monitors it performs, most of it could be programmed on micro controller and the switching is just an Hbridge. I have been looking at it for some time now for another project.

Just using 2 batteries will raise efficiency though but not to the same level.

Matt

[wantomake]

Balancing

Well look here...Your numbers are OK but the point is to get balance so you have 1.6 amps going to the inverter yet you have 5.3 amps going back to the serial batteries. You should be able to turn that little screw on the boost converter and get that amp draw down.
Mine balanced out with just hair more current going up to serial batteries than was going to the inverter.

In fact all my batteries are at the same or higher voltage than they were when I started the run. Voltage is not capacity but its good indicator things are going in the right direction.

I'm going to move up to 100 watt load next and see what I can do about building a more robust simple (Maybe) boost converter to help tackle this job.

Matt

Thanks Matt,
Yes I do try to balance the setup with the pot on the booster. But the inverter will shut down unless the voltages are correct. This inverter has auto safety alarm cutoff if too high or too low.

But I'll have more time to test this am until the heat runs me out of my shop.

If my math is correct, the setup gained voltage and ran a cfl for free last night. So that is a first for any setup I've tried.

Looking to purchase stronger boost converter as well to handle bigger loads.

This is an interesting setup thus far.
Thanks again.

[dragon]

I realize that what I'm doing may not be directly related to the exact "replication" of Matt's work. I tend to focus on things I don't understand so I can learn. Then, I turn things around flip them over twist it all up so I can look at all angles of what I'm doing -

Below is a picture of my spaghetti ball of wire, switches, batteries, transformer etc... that picture shows a complete balance of energy being shuttled back and forth between the batteries and cap bank. At 170 hz it holds at 25.7 on the batteries and 13.4 on the caps. The interesting part is that when I lower the frequency I can charge the cap bank while draining the batteries and raise the frequency I can charge the battery bank and drain the caps. There were no loads running during this test, simply a curiosity of anomalies I saw in prior testing. It appears to be acting as a resonant circuit between the batteries and caps through the coil - off resonance high or low we get a different directional energy shuttle. I can measure everything but the batteries so this leaves one variable that is unknown. My own little quest for some answers...

So while pondering the tests, the 3 battery system and creating a potential difference it occurred to me that 2 batteries and a boost converter basically does the same thing.... so I scratched some thoughts on my white board then put together some quick tests... can anyone explain the difference??? The diagram shows a 2 battery system using a simple manual DPDT switch to shuttle the batteries - one is being drained while the other is charging.

Today I'll wire up a 2 battery system to drive an inverter between the two using 2 500 farad cap banks.... it should be reasonably easy to measure the losses/recovery...

[Matthew Jones]

Well here is what it ran for 2 hr 20 min.

Time. #2. #1. #3. #2 & #1. Load. Inverter. Converter
8:45. 12.67. 13.31. 12.65. 25.94. 0.1 A. 1.6 Amps 5.3 Amps
8:55. 12.91. 14.13. 12.11. 27.06.
9:05. 12.85. 14.13. 12.21. 26.99
9:15. 12.81. 14.16. 12.19. 26.98
9:25. 12.79. 14.20. 12.20. 26.99
9:35. 12.78. 14.21. 12.21. 26.99
11:05. 12.72. 14.28. 12.02. 27.00

Load was CFL 15 watt at 0.1 amp.
Inverter across positives 1.6 amps.
Boost converter was pulling 5.3 amps.

Hope these numbers help. Will try higher wattage tomorrow with cooler temperatures maybe.

Well look here...Your numbers are OK but the point is to get balance so you have 1.6 amps going to the inverter yet you have 5.3 amps going back to the serial batteries. You should be able to turn that little screw on the boost converter and get that amp draw down.
Mine balanced out with just hair more current going up to serial batteries than was going to the inverter.

In fact all my batteries are at the same or higher voltage than they were when I started the run. Voltage is not capacity but its good indicator things are going in the right direction.

I'm going to move up to 100 watt load next and see what I can do about building a more robust simple (Maybe) boost converter to help tackle this job.

Matt

[Turion]

Guys, I have nothing but respect for the folks who show up here and give it their best shot. I know some folks are using what they have because it is ALL they have, and some folks are waiting for parts and are using what they have while they wait. I have no problem with that AT ALL.

It is the guys who DON'T EVER try to get the right parts and yet insist that this doesn't work because they tried it with whatever they had and failed, and then spend the rest of their time putting this down when they never did it right in the first place. I have seen that countless times over the last eight years as I tried to get folks to give this a shot.

I don't believe that applies to anybody so far. No offense intended toward ANY of you who have been posting on your efforts. Some of you guys have posted lots of data, and I haven't posted ANY yet. I have run this thing so many ways in so many different configurations that my head is filled with numbers, and I just need to settle down and put together the basic setup again and join the discussion on how best to tune this.

That's my goal for tomorrow.

Dave