William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[Mcc]

Hi,

All these systems (when it's not an hoax or an error of measure) use only basic physics law: take 2 objects in rotation (free rotation), when you apply a torque on an object, the same torque is apply to other objet in other direction, but with different inertia, each torque don't works at same value, inertia change the angle and the work from a torque is torque by angle.

You can verify with Algodoo or Comsol Multibody, sum of energy can be increase with a simple rotation with 2 objects.

With an axis it's works too but lower energy can be recover in 2D:



Red disk is free compare to blue object. CG2=center of gravity red disk. Red disk turn around itself, with its own moment of inertia, the torque apply to blue object can't change its rotational velocity due to its moment of inertia in the same manner. Sure, if no friction between 2 object, this don't works.

[Turion]

Options

With the acrylic and shot you could fill the top half of your steel or aluminum pipe so it is top heavy without all the weight of a solid rod.

[Aaron]

lower weight

Aaron,
I have several bags of shot gun shot from another experiment where I was mixing shot and acrylic in molds to make very large "C" cores. You could fill any size hollow tube with as much shot and acrylic as you want and let it harden. It will make whatever size weight you want in whatever molded form. A little messy at times, but it works. And much heavier than just a steel pipe would be.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I was actually going to use solid steel stock of maybe 3 inches in diameter or so - at 2 feet long, it will be pretty dang heavy. That might actually be a bit much for this build but I definitely need it more heavy than the aluminum.

[Aaron]

measuring mechanical work

Here is a simple method to calculate the mechanical work done at the output shaft...

Here is an excerpt from one of Peter's original electric motor videos showing how to measure the mechanical work at a shaft. This is exactly how we measure the mechanical work being done with a Bedini SG so we know that when we add that mechanical work to the electrical recovery it is always over 1.0 COP...but you have to add the mechanical work to see the "overunity".

This is also perfect for measuring the work of the Skinner machine like I mentioned in my Skinner video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zox7EnafQmE

Here is a short video I did with details on my wheel. Look at this now, I just realized that I actually machined that wheel specifically to test the Skinner machine. I'm an amateur with the lathe so I just turned down the wheel until the caliper slipped on and that was it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jptEZeAJ_U

I'll try to find my 35 watt input tests - at 35 watts, it was spinning really fast - used a kill-a-watt meter at the wall to measure the draw through the rectified variac output to the dc motor. I think I filmed this on my old iphone but don't recall.

[Turion]

Aaron,
I have several bags of shot gun shot from another experiment where I was mixing shot and acrylic in molds to make very large "C" cores. You could fill any size hollow tube with as much shot and acrylic as you want and let it harden. It will make whatever size weight you want in whatever molded form. A little messy at times, but it works. And much heavier than just a steel pipe would be.

Dave

[Aaron]

The Moon's Rotation by Nikola Tesla

According to Professor Kanarev who has also recorded similar efficiencies the energy is harvested from the planetary movements around the sun.

Elliptical movement and unbalanced mass are two of the keys to creating a draft for the planetary movement energy to flow in.

Jim Murray's Mechanical Amplifier

The Moon's Rotation by Nikola Tesla - Energy Science Forum

[Aaron]

lifting vs not lifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosehillworks
The way I see this machine operating is that the first wait is like an out of balance wheel this allows the Machine to harvest centrifugal force to do the work of tipping the lower shaft thus putting the lower weight in a state of being constantly lifted on a tilted plain so it will move to the new lowest point in its axis.

Soundiceuk, on this quote you posted by rosehillworks, I've had this conversation with Peter about IF the lower shaft is actually lifting the lower weight during the progress to keep it falling. For me, the jury is still out on this idea. When I did the test with a centered pulley rotating the top of the lower shaft around a fixed axis, I couldn't detect any up or down play in the shaft in relation to the pulley as it was being whipped around.

I know a couple ways I can test this idea to conclusively prove whether or not it is or is not being lifted any but would have to build it first. I don't want to assume anything yet, because a few things on this device have already proven to be fairly counter-intuitive.

[Aaron]

build parts

If you want to build a working model for proof of concept (those doubters among you) and don't want to lay out a lot of cash, consider using long half inch socket extensions as your rod, and a socket universal swivel as your pivot points. If you have a universal swivel joint on the bottom and put a socket on the other end of it, you can put a nut on your motor or gen shaft and use the socket to turn or "drive" it. By the same token, a nut welded to a pulley can be used as the Driver for the shaft at the top of the device with a matching socket on the end of the universal swivel. I believe Aaron may have made mention of this somewhere in his parts list for this project, but I don't see anyone talking about it. CV joints or universal joints are expensive. Simple universal socket swivel extensions are comparatively cheap, easy to find at any hardware store, and will work fairly well.

Dave

I looked at all kinds of cv or universal joints for go karts, etc... from all kinds of sources but settled on my steel rod, swivel socket and extension method. It's easier to get and cheaper and works just fine for a prototype.

I probably have $50 into my whole build, which includes the wood, sockets, rod, screws, etc... I already had some of it lying around and my friend did the welding free at an old transmission shop he worked at. All the steel is plates are from a scrap yard for $1 per pound.

I would use higher quality joints for a larger more serious build that I would intend to use to power something.

For this model, I want to replace the lower aluminum weight with a larger diameter and taller solid steel piece. I just used the aluminum because I had it laying around.

[soundiceuk]

You can see the part which is the unbalanced mass in this picture.

The T slot is what allows the elliptical movement at high RPM.



Here are some other pictures of prototypes:






PurelyPrimitives wrote:

"I saw this on the Energetic forum. What's interesting is that when you compare the basics of what Mr. Skinner's device is doing its very similar to Bobby's.

In Bobby's version, he has simply swapped a large mass for acceleration. In the basic formula F=M*A you can see that if you decrease mass and increase acceleration you can achieve the same force. Centripetal force is a little more complicated because we are then dealing with angular velocity and radius but the basic analogy still holds.

Then we add in the offset eccentric rotation of the mass and that's where the magic happens lol!

Charlie"

___________________________

"Hi Lawrence,

Its possible that Mr. Skinner was misquoted and he really meant 1200 TIMES and not percent. If not, then it really doesn't add up.

In the written article he is quoted as saying that a 1 HP motor would provide electricity for a town of 3500 people. If he meant 1200% this would mean the equivalent of a 12 HP motor. I have a generator with a 10 HP motor and I can't run everything in my own house. So 1200% doesn't add up.

Anyway, this device is incredibly more complex than it needs to be and the reason I still am shooting for a Bobby replication which is a fraction of the size/cost.

Charlie"

___________________

"My personal view is that any symmetrically driven machine will never produce OU. Offset drive with eccentric rotation is the only way to go. This is based on what I've learned and observed.

Charlie"

___________________

"I had success in demonstrating that I could drive either a unbalanced or balanced assembly with a small pulsed input. What I didn't show or prove was what would happen with a load. In hind sight, I think it would simply slow down under load. The weighted arm(s) were only a passive flywheel which doesn't magically add any energy. So ultimately you end up with only the rotational energy being put in minus frictional losses.

Notice that even Mr. Chalkalis has never demonstrated either of his devices with a load even though several people requested he do so to prove his machine. The fact that he still hasn't, strongly suggests that it also would simply just slow down. Otherwise why not simply drive an output and silence his critics?

As I've mentioned before, there needs to be a centripetal mass component (preferably eccentric) which is an area that Newtonian physics doesn't fully explain. I really believe that this is an approach where additional energy can be demonstrated."

____________________

"Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Bobby's machine is the only possible solution but the technology to create an OU machine is definitely in his device. His approach, fine tuned over several attempted designs, reduces it down to a simple realistic machine.

Charlie"


Just thought I would bring you guys up to date as the energy source we are chasing in this thread is the same.

[soundiceuk]

Aaron

First let me thank you for starting this thread

Aaron, I also thank you for starting the thread.

There are a lot of commonalities between machines that harvest energy that has clearly not been allowed in the educational books that are studied.

I listened to a Tesla researcher who claimed the banking families own the educational publishing corporations. Hmmm, I wonder exactly HOW MUCH has been left out?

The way I see this machine operating is that the first wait is like an out of balance wheel this allows the Machine to harvest centrifugal force to do the work of tipping the lower shaft thus putting the lower weight in a state of being constantly lifted on a tilted plain so it will move to the new lowest point in its axis.

According to Professor Kanarev who has also recorded similar efficiencies the energy is harvested from the planetary movements around the sun.

Elliptical movement and unbalanced mass are two of the keys to creating a draft for the planetary movement energy to flow in.


Pick up a plank of wood and hold it horizontal and you will soon be in pain.

Spin around with the same plank of wood and something magical happens.

You haven't got stronger, maybe dizzy though. Lucklily metal doesn't get dizzy.


An inventor that doesn't live too far from me Bobby PremeRajan has been working on these types of machines with a decent budget for quite some years now.

He appears to have worked out how to enable the machine to create its own g force.

He has 4 end products ready for mass production in the 1-10MW region.

He wants to sell power 1-2 pence per kilowatt hour.

I had a little ping pong with him on facebook.

One of the older prototypes can be seen in the background.

Saw this today:

"Latest double action mechanical space energy harvesting machine all rights reserved by galaxel ltd"




I probably shouldn't post this but I'm going to anyway:

I told Bobby I wanted to help him for free.

This is the conversation. I was a little bit pushy, but I wanted to discover his intentions / sincerity.

Best regards,

Paul Very Happy


Me April 21, 2013 3:01 pm:
Hi Bobby, love what you are doing. Check out www.gravinert.com if you like Best regards, Paul


Bobby April 23, 2013 12:33 pm:
i have moved on from gravity power systems it was a good fun but ,there are better ways to tap the power very small machine's with high power out put!


Me May 13, 2013 11:33 am
Hi Bobby, great to hear from you. I'm guessing that heavy weights and higher RPMS are at play to extract the energy. What experiment did you do to make you change direction? Many thanks, Paul


Me April 27th, 11:38pm
Hi Bobby, somehow in my research I arrived back at the original PESWIKI article.

I didn't realise you are only up the road from me. I live in Plymouth.

This brought me back to my facebook messages.

I think I see how you moved on with your designs, just by looking at the pictures on your facebook page.

Have you come across the works of Ph. M Kanarev?

I believe the direction you have taken is in line with his.

It is my understanding that mechanical engineers have missed out a calculation that relates to the earths movement through the universe.

It is this energy that is beings tapped, understanding the conditions to syphon this energy looks to be your forte!


Bobby April 27th, 11:58pm
No I don't know about Mr M Kanarev never spend time on internet I spend most of my time on experiments and building machines


Me April 28th, 2:27am
Holy Grail of Mechanical Design? - Page 14 I'm having a battle trying to wake up a bunch of heavily indoctrinated mechanical engineers. The only way I foresee these devices getting out to the masses is show them it's possible.

Holy Grail of Mechanical Design? - Page 14
Mechanical Design Forum - Latest articles
I am following in your footsteps seeking the optimum ultimate energy source. I was surprised and amazed when I read you were targeting MW and selling the power. I believe a more backdoor route is the way to go.

Did the patent office play ball? I've spoken to John E. Moray son of Thomas Henry Moray whose as you may know was refused a patent because the device had no prime mover.


Bobby:
Yes I can't talk alot about this subject on Facebook but it's true , back door route is the best way forward over 100 years engineers are coming with new products nothing in the market you know why

Me April 28th, 10:11am:
Maybe we could meet up to discuss this subject sometime. I've been mulling over this for at least 3 years now and have acquired many ideas and contacts.

Me Friday 1:00am:
I realise you are probably in several NDAs with various folks so this probably isn't possible. I went to have a look at the pictures again and realised you had removed them. There is a window of time to get something out there into the open. I'm guessing you know about this too?

Me Friday 10:42am:

I thought I would try one last time to contact you, then leave you alone. You can't profit from having the solution to the worlds energy needs. No one ever has, why are you and Galaxy going to be any different? It's not the "oil barons" you have to worry about. I've traced it to the very top. I didn't want to get closer to you to steal your stuff. I'm not interested in the money anymore. I do want to share my knowledge and help you. I help inventors. It is a long story but that's what I do when I'm not being a dad. I have avenues to get this out there that you quite probably haven't considered. Please email me at [email protected] if that is a more comfortable communication method. Thanks


Bobby Friday 6:51pm:
Thank you for your offer but i have done the full development four energy machines i have large team in my company i am sorry to say i don't have the time to try new ideas , i have build 67 machines during the research development now i have four end products for mass production , and i don't want to be involved with any other projects thank you for your understanding


Me Saturday 1:53pm:
Bobby, that is amazing that you have already done all of the r&d work. I wish you all the best in your route to market. I am in contact with another inventor that has got further along than you. His company and 50 employees were shut down and served with a gag order. His water fuel research company disappeared overnight. As you are already going down the commercial route on paper I fear this is where you will end up. Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Invention Secrecy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org

The monetary system is heavily rigged. You have to play dirty too to win in the trillion dollar energy industry. I didn't want to involve you in any of my projects. I'm just interested in helping you for free. I just want a technology, hopefully yours, to break through before it is too late. At the moment the public still think this is impossible. I also know the editor of the UK's underground newspaper with 1 million readership.

If you don't want my help or advice that is ok. I really hope your the one to break through the net. I love what you have done and are doing but you don't seem to have identified the very dangerous families you are about to mess with and their capabilities. Unfortunately back door route seems the only way. Kit form, self assembly, builders own risk, experimental purposes only. I hope you flood the world with these devices. Remember this is a age old war of good vs evil. They don't play by the rules and pretty much own the monetary system globally. My view is the only way to profit from your life's work is to give it away to the people. Open source it. If everyone profit's you will profit beyond your wildest imagination. Also consider that Radioionics and thorium have a greater energy density than what you have. Even if you get your technology out there they will remove you from the market because your technology is prehistoric in comparison. Smaller, no moving parts, sound or prime mover.

The Thorium Conspiracy - YouTube
The Thorium Conspiracy
YouTube


Car Runs For 100 Years Without Refueling - The Thorium - YouTube

Car Runs For 100 Years Without Refueling - The Thorium
YouTube


Bobby:
dear Paul please understand i have a cooperative companies 0ne with 380 staff another with 78 staff and another 72 for fabrication under contract with high penalty close plus i have a 5 man workshop for development i have 14 financial backers plus 4 lawyers 6 office staff and i still own 87 % of the company most of the income will be spent on community projects our business model is safe we don't let any new people in the business i hope you understand me

Me Saturday 3:36pm:
Hi Bobby you sound extremely sharp business wise and I wish you all the best and luck in the world. Just remember that your up against the Rothschilds. They own the monetary system. That is who the "national debt" is owed to. I'm sorry but you cannot win in commerce in a trillion dollar industry they created and control. I really hope you are successful. The Rothschild financed both sides of WW1, WW2 and plan to kick off WW3 to bury the type of devices you want to bring to the world for good. Sounds crazy I know. Consider contacting me if you get blocked in your route. The team I work with have done about 35 prototypes between us. We will give the r&d away on a plate to the world so anyone can improve it. At some point we will catch up. Lol


Bobby:
hanks I have been in business with them in 1994 I know there tricks I got smarter since I was a international commodities trade and gold bullion trade for six years I have business network almost all around the world and lots of good friends most of the English under world boys look after my back I am safe thank you


Me Saturday 5:25pm:
sounds like you have it sussed Bobby. Sounds very exciting! If you've got the money to get a child safe version into schools, colleges and unis it would ensure the technology stays. Folks need waking up. In your R&D did you discover perpetual motion without using a motor?


Bobby:
No but I don't want to know about one G gravity machines or any magnet motor I am happy with what I have thank you for offering to me help but I want to be left alone

Me:
ok that's cool, I'll look out for your progress update from Sterling. Good luck.

Bobby:
Thumbs up smilie.

__________________________________________________

Thought you all may find this very interesting, sorry if it distracts you from Skinner's device but we are all chasing the same dream.

Very little input, very big output.

I do think Bobby is the real deal.

Also here is the latest from Charlie aka Purely Primitives (ex senior mechanical design engineer - BOSE)

"Hi Guys,

I've been tied up with some personal issues that I have to deal with so I won't be around much but will check in from time to time.

I've got Bobby's design about 99% figured out and have started planning a replication using pretty much all "off-the-shelf" parts. They'll be some small fabrication but should be easy enough for anyone to build.

Regards,
Charlie"

[Turion]

Model Parts

If you want to build a working model for proof of concept (those doubters among you) and don't want to lay out a lot of cash, consider using long half inch socket extensions as your rod, and a socket universal swivel as your pivot points. If you have a universal swivel joint on the bottom and put a socket on the other end of it, you can put a nut on your motor or gen shaft and use the socket to turn or "drive" it. By the same token, a nut welded to a pulley can be used as the Driver for the shaft at the top of the device with a matching socket on the end of the universal swivel. I believe Aaron may have made mention of this somewhere in his parts list for this project, but I don't see anyone talking about it. CV joints or universal joints are expensive. Simple universal socket swivel extensions are comparatively cheap, easy to find at any hardware store, and will work fairly well.

Dave

[artoj]

Elliptical Forces

After careful analysis, the top mechanism is simplified, and Aaron was right, but it was the imbalanced elliptical forces that help drive the unusual non uniform rotating velocity, going in a rotary action from a rocking cross member via a Burke type mechanism. The path could still allow for a non uniform ellipse, with possible variations from a circle, traveling within another circle or epicyclic, these small differences will be evident when a system is not rigid.The rest now is just build it, I would like to build it full scale and no compromises to quality of materials. More drawing coming soon. Regards Arto.

[Aaron]

input lever details

The input lever's rotation around it's own axis has no bearing (pun intended) on the rotation of the translation coupler. Plus, it has has a pivot, which would prevent it from spinning on it's own axis to begin with. In some of the video after the 2nd, half, it looks like the input lever rod is rotating, but I believe that is an artifact of the old film. If you look at the space under the pivot in the scenes to the right of center, you see that is appears to be clearly not rotating. So instead of it spinning...it is being held by a bearing in the upper mechanism and on the translation plate so they can rotate around the fixed position of the input lever.

It is the input lever's position in space, which determines where it's other end down by the pivot is located and that location will determine where it's relationship with the translation coupler will be. You can move the input lever into any location and keep it there and the translation coupler will move freely around the bottom of the input lever and the same with the upper input mechanism that moves the top of the input lever.

I don't think I pointed out why I believe the lever is spring loaded where it has it's pivot - if you watch the video, not only is the input lever rocking back and forth, you can see the metal retainer plates with bolts at 90 degrees perpendicular to the pivot go back and forth with the lever - BUT, you see that it is not locked to the same motion, it lags behind a bit with some dampening action - that is very easy to see in the original video. Go to 0:35 to 0:39 of the video and you will see it: Gravity Power | A & P Electronic Media – Digital Publishing by Aaron Murakami & Peter Lindemann

[goldpro]

Rosehillworks:
Yes, I see what you mean about the lever shafts appearing to spin
in the video. Ok, that would mean, to my way of thinking, that the
top of all 4 of the lever shafts would attach to the lower surface of the 4 top gears out near their rims with universal joints welded/fixed to them.

But there would need to be a bearing in the x/y pivot to allow that.
that's doable.

It looks like the gears moving the tops of the lever shafts around
are turning clockwise when viewed looking down on the whole machine
but it's hard to tell and they might be going the other way.

Aaron:
I'll have to study your latest video more as I'm not able to grasp what you're saying regarding the white pieces of graph paper. Are we talking about the same thing...the tops of the 4 lever shafts...up at the top of the whole machine...they appear to be connected to the top gears ?

sorry if I've confused everyone.
watching someone hoola hoop....their waist goes in a circle rather than
an ellipse or back and forth motion.
I'll just keep going with my meccano model.
thanks
Tom

[Aaron]

Gravity Power full video

I just put all 3 of my vids about his machine into one video and put it here on the blog: FULL VERSION – Gravity Power 1939 Reverse Engineering Details | A & P Electronic Media – Digital Publishing by Aaron Murakami & Peter Lindemann

I'll post this in my first post of this thread to help make it easier for others just tuning in.