Cap Dump Circuit

[BroMikey]

Show Me your circuit

Circuit diagram Deleted

[BroMikey]

Matthew Jones Circuit

Hey Matt

All I can find on youtube that shows your work in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW4jrmSygbM

The bulk of your posts here on this group refer to someone else's work with you telling people many things and correcting everyone.

I see you directing others to a private group all closed source.

Sorry I am not surprised. I told you that.

Show us you working circuits please, thats all.

Mike

[Matthew Jones]

I'll help you with yours. I might even share some of mine, but you unfortunately you already have a perfected grasp on what your doing and why nothing else will work. I don't see being able to change that.

I have made considerable investment in my work and the tools to understand what I am doing, doubt what I tell you, before I even tell you how or why, if you want, its your loss.

Like I said I am sorry to have bothered you.

Matt

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, if we don't try and share freely, we will have the same monkey on our backs and i'm sure most here know the monkey i'm speaking of.
If i had information of value, i would share it without hesitation.
Things related to basic human needs, (energy, etc.) need to be shared freely, or we will never get the slave masters off our backs, in this world that is.
peace love light and lighten up all.

[BroMikey]

Dude Turn Lose of It.

Circuit diagram deleted

[BroMikey]

All grown Up

Hi folks, if we don't try and share freely, we will have the same monkey on our backs and i'm sure most here know the monkey i'm speaking of.
If i had information of value, i would share it without hesitation.
Things related to basic human needs, (energy, etc.) need to be shared freely, or we will never get the slave masters off our backs, in this world that is.
peace love light and lighten up all.

Hi Sky

I see you have come along way since the earlier days huh? Just kidding around, I know YOU can take a punch. I have watched your work from I think 2004? Well somewhere back there I was in my 40's.

You and I were on other yahoo groups and I used the name "ELECTROGASMAN" talking about the hexcontroller and Bob Boyce work.

Thanks for all of the great posts.


@MATT
@SKY
@Group

Now let me explain what happened last night in the newbie's work shop.

I had this dump running for over a week and just couldn't stand it I guess.
So I went searching for the upper limits after having beat the H-E-Double-L out of these 3 tiny devices.

So what I did was increase the supply current and voltage a little at a time till I got results .

Kaboom!!!!! I saw a flash, I was at 3 pulses per second and maybe 700 watts input with little or no resistance for charging time on the cap bank.

I bought 20 more fet right then. I still have 12 left.

I will be doing a video and show what I mean as this is one of the most important things that JOHN BEDINI has point out by the use of his oscillators.

JB has shown the importance of turning off the supply power while the caps dump when he shows his oscillators filling the capacitors up on his discharging units.

Many want to simply turn off the supply momentary with another set of fets when the dump comes and this is a great idea. So I did that. Well first I soldered in 3 more brand new fet's.

I looked at the amp pulse at the normal setting and the supply running at all times with the dump at 1 per second. I also went to a resistance for charging my cap bank to it's longest time. So it took a full second for it to charge up and was ready for dumping.

The current pulses came to 10amps then I charged it back up and removed the input power while the dump came, there was little difference in the current pulses only and extra amp for 11 amp pulses.

So I decided I had better show what I learned to the lesser experienced so when they start burning up fet's they will remember this post.

again I burned up 3 fet's purposely. I run the supply up to 75 volts dumping down to a 12 volt battery with a rapid secession on pulses doing everything wrong. 20 amp pulses and a groaning power supply.

The circuit breaker go off at 20 amps and I had the supply up close to that sometimes just to be rotten. Finally they exploded.

So I rocked back in the chair realizing that at about 3 ohms of resistance to charge the bank was to fast when the dump came and the dump down voltage was never reached sometimes as I adjusted around the pulses and current input.

Now here is what I am stuck with. I can run for days at a 500 watt input with the right resistance (about 6 ohms for my caps) the input amp draw just flickers (Wiggles Thanks JB) at about 1-5 amp fluctuation over 1 second, while the output pulses are 10-15 amps.

The wrong way is a 10amp charging resistance over 1 second and the output pulses are 10 amps, this is wrong.

Then I remembered all of the oscillator work and how the oscillator failed at the instant of the dump plus how the SG force Oscillator filled caps so quick.

So I had to make a choice to turn off the supply between dumps or continue building this oscillator.

I have irfp250's in there now and will build a higher voltage version latter. This one will be good for maybe 60 volts using these 250's.

Mike (Been searching for a higher volt bipolar 400v minimum)

[shylo]

electronics

Hi Mike, I'm not sure if this really applies to your thread , kind of I guess but I don't have a circut for the dump , just manual , eventually mechanical.
The one thing I've noticed when trying to dump into the source battery the voltage will jump but then settle to a lower value?
If I dump to a secondary battery it jumps then settles but never to a lower value and eventually charging. So is that the reason for disconnecting supply before dumping into it?
Hi Matt in that video of the magnet rail, I'm sure you exp. extensively did you ever get anywhere with it? I was thinking it could be used as an assited kicker in a multitude of exp. If I had all the same magnets I would try myself.
Sorry not much to do about electronics, just looking.
artv

[BroMikey]

Volt drop

Hi Mike, I'm not sure if this really applies to your thread , kind of I guess but I don't have a circut for the dump , just manual , eventually mechanical.
The one thing I've noticed when trying to dump into the source battery the voltage will jump but then settle to a lower value?
If I dump to a secondary battery it jumps then settles but never to a lower value and eventually charging. So is that the reason for disconnecting supply before dumping into it?

To Shylo

When a battery has been setting for a long time it may show a surface charge on the meter but when a good health surge of power or spike comes the plates begin to activate.
It's almost like having a full jar of sugar and when you begin to shake it it settles to a lower level but the same amount of sugar is still there.

With a battery other things can happen. I have some sitting around and they show a surface charge and when engaged by pulsing the voltage drops.

tonight I put a 1500 pound battery on the pulse dump for the first time in 4 weeks. The voltage showed 12.6 and after pulsing for 30 minutes the battery showed a charge of 13.5vdc. and after 3 hrs it was 13.0 volts and after 12 hrs was at 13.4. So yes batteries need to be stirred up and much time to fill completely. Many who see the pulse charging information think that the batteries charge faster.

The newbies think that faster means free energy.

Another thing pulse charging does is to grow a finer material crystalline lattice that enables your battery to hold more charges or pockets to fill, either way you want to look at it.

Therefore sometimes as you pulse charge a battery it is changing by getting larger. As the pocket count is increased the charges will show less yet the battery still has more power in it than it did to start with.

I like to look at it like this, the battery sulfates a tiny bit between charge ups so the strong in rushing currents clean these obstacles off the plates and this will show a lower voltage right away as the newly opened pockets that should have been opened to be read by the meter were not accessible.

Once cleared off the pockets show empty as they can be read by the meter , where before no room for energy existed.

A fully sulfated battery that can not give out any power reads 12.5vdc on the meters. I have nice batteries here that no matter how hard I try they will not come back to life yet they read nearly full on the meter.

Don't let your batteries sit for long or you will have to work harder to get them cleaned up first and then charged up and on top of that continue the conditioning process of enlarging.

My ALUM converted batteries all give back over 50 percent more power than they are rated for from the factory when brand new.

Mike

[BroMikey]

Closing the loop

Hi Mike, I'm not sure if this really applies to your thread , kind of I guess but I don't have a circut for the dump , just manual , eventually mechanical.
The one thing I've noticed when trying to dump into the source battery the voltage will jump but then settle to a lower value?
If I dump to a secondary battery it jumps then settles but never to a lower value and eventually charging. So is that the reason for disconnecting supply before dumping into it?
Hi Matt in that video of the magnet rail, I'm sure you exp. extensively did you ever get anywhere with it? I was thinking it could be used as an assited kicker in a multitude of exp. If I had all the same magnets I would try myself.
Sorry not much to do about electronics, just looking.
artv

Hello Shylo

The dumping to a source battery is closing the loop and now you get into many more facts and discussions. It depends on so many things like "ARE YOU USING A BEDINI OSC"??? If so sulfation is at a minimum.

ARE YOU USING AN INVERTER?

You will need to post the setup of how you are getting source battery energy to first transfer into a secondary and then back around again. So you could say that as the spikes come around or if you are using genmode warm currents the same conditioning is on going. he only true test would be to measure the amount in THAT battery as it probably grows larger.

So let's summarize. Pulsing 1 battery to another then back around must be a constant process for days to see where things are going and to measure all of the joules coming out of each battery. Big time consumer. When You are finished you will find you got extra energy yes.

You might even scale up so your batteries are as big as a school bus and end up with enough left over to run part of your house on.

I will be showing Bedini's GENMODE on the scope soon and how it looks when the dump comes.

Stay tuned.

Mike

[BroMikey]

Cap dumpers

Hello experimenters

Here is some very important information for each of you aspiring to do a dump circuit that will operate properly. I have learned this on my own though I am sure someone must have shown this before.

The way I learned this was by first using an energizer or forced oscillator that I connected to a cap dump switch. The timer circuit and switch send power in the form of a pulse to the charge battery.

The circuit below does not employ and oscillator so it become necessary to add a resistor in the line of the capacitor bank charging circuit side from the run batteries.

Study the page. If the resistor is not present then both meters will show a pulse of about the same 8 amp pulse and fry your switch and will never dump down to a low enough voltage to be effective.

What you want is a run battery that charges the capacitor bank up at about 2 amps per second so when the switch is thrown an 8 amp pulse can be discharged in a few microseconds.

If you think about this diagram and experiment you will see that without the resistance to limit RC charging times you will not only damage components but never get a true pulse as the supply will never stop.

Here is the diagram.

RC Charging.JPG

I hope this helps you guys who are beginning and don't want a burned out circuits to start out your learning process.

Mike

[Farmhand]

Have you calculated how much energy is dissipated by the resistor.

Ohm's Law with Calculator

To get 2 amps flowing from 12 volts potential difference would require 6 Ohms
and result in 24 Watts of power dissipated in the resistor itself. Which is wasted
unless you desire the heat generation.

This is why with medium to high powers resistors are not generally considered
for current limiting. At least not by me. There are other ways to disconnect the
supply while dumping. But some electronics "trickery" is required. The use of
an IC chip like a SG3523 or an SG3525 (my preference) or a CD4047 (simplest)
can help a lot. I think the CD4047 can go to the low frequencies you want.

I'll try to make a drawing of the simplest set up I can, for the sake of others as well.

A two stage or two phase arrangement will work.

First phase a low side switch connects the supply to the caps then disconnects,
2nd phase another low side switch connects the charge battery to the capacitors then disconnects.
repeat at the desired frequency

..

[BroMikey]

Jim Dandy Circuits.

Have you calculated how much energy is dissipated by the resistor.

Ohm's Law with Calculator

To get 2 amps flowing from 12 volts potential difference would require 6 Ohms
and result in 24 Watts of power dissipated in the resistor itself. Which is wasted
unless you desire the heat generation.

This is why with medium to high powers resistors are not generally considered
for current limiting. At least not by me. There are other ways to disconnect the
supply while dumping. But some electronics "trickery" is required. The use of
an IC chip like a SG3523 or an SG3525 (my preference) or a CD4047 (simplest)
can help a lot. I think the CD4047 can go to the low frequencies you want.

I'll try to make a drawing of the simplest set up I can, for the sake of others as well.

A two stage or two phase arrangement will work.

First phase a low side switch connects the supply to the caps then disconnects,
2nd phase another low side switch connects the charge battery to the capacitors then disconnects.
repeat at the desired frequency

..

Thanks Again FARMHAND

Let me think about that one Sounds like a winner.

Looking forward to seeing a simple version for all. Won't this be great?

The voltage drop across my resistor is 1/4th the total power flowing. In my case I was using 42vdc at the capacitor bank discharge. The supply is 55vdc and the drop across my resistor is 12vdc now at 2 amps. So 12 X 2 =24 watts but the cap bank is receiving 42vdc at 2 amps or 42 X 2 = 84 watts

A 555 timer is employed already so why not use the same circuit to do a flip flop or muiltvib or whatever folks call it when a 555 timer does one thing on the up swing and another on the down swing? What is that function for 555 timer?

Hang on I will be back. A 555 timer back in the day was considered a very complex, state of the art device with many modes of operation. The beginners like the timers.

Mike

[Farmhand]

Yeah using the one signal with complimentary transistors can work as well, and with this kind of setup might well be the simplest.

I'll make a drawing to show what I mean in general first. I'm no expert circuit designer.

..

Something basically like this ? Either the caps are charging or the caps are dumping, turn on the switching before allowing the caps to charge.

It's not exactly how I would do it, I think I would want to ensure there was "dead time" between cap charge and cap dump.
As well as use pull down/pull up resistors to make sure of a steady on or off state with the switches without the 555 powered.

Dead time between switching ensures both switches are not on a bit at the
same time which would allow what you don't want. And can be achieved with a flip flop if the duty of the signal generator pulses can be varied.

The other chips like the SG3525 output two signals out of phase and the duty can be varied on both with one adjustment, but they can be a bit complicated I agree.

..

P.S. A high inductance coil with low resistance between the supply batteries positive and the capacitors positive would also be a good idea, this slows down the current charging the caps and the coil will discharge into the caps.
Or maybe between the caps and the charge battery might be better.

Actually, maybe if you just use a biggish coil rather than a resistor it might work with the single switch.

..

[BroMikey]

Complementary NPN + PNP

Yeah using the one signal with complimentary transistors can work as well, and with this kind of setup might well be the simplest.

I'll make a drawing to show what I mean in general first. I'm no expert circuit designer.

..

Something basically like this ? Either the caps are charging or the caps are dumping, turn on the switching before allowing the caps to charge.

It's not exactly how I would do it, I think I would want to ensure there was "dead time" between cap charge and cap dump.
As well as use pull down/pull up resistors to make sure of a steady on or off state with the switches without the 555 powered.

Dead time between switching ensures both switches are not on a bit at the
same time which would allow what you don't want. And can be achieved with a flip flop if the duty of the signal generator pulses can be varied.

The other chips like the SG3525 output two signals out of phase and the duty can be varied on both with one adjustment, but they can be a bit complicated I agree.

..

P.S. A high inductance coil with low resistance between the supply batteries positive and the capacitors positive would also be a good idea, this slows down the current charging the caps and the coil will discharge into the caps.
Or maybe between the caps and the charge battery might be better.

Actually, maybe if you just use a biggish coil rather than a resistor it might work with the single switch.

..

Super Awesome simple Farmhand

Great for us beginners Now going forward with the idea. First thing everyone needs to hear like you pointed out Farmhand is that our discussion does not eliminate the resistor.

The resistor or resistors must always be there to slow down the charging of the capacitor bank and also to sort of keep and even electrical pressure on the front and backside of our devices or Mosfet's.

So our discussion overall centers around improving efficiency of the circuit.

Always remember when a circuit is of a higher efficiency that part of the power that was wasted before is now used to charge the battery but there will always be a loss.

so with these losses in mind, where is our free energy??

Well let's just call it extra energy because like some of the guys have stated that these surges that hit a battery will cause changes and unknown electrical activity not associated with 100 year old charging methods.

So here we go, PNP and NPN used to turn on and off the run battery during dumping, yet keep in mind always that the resistor need to be placed around the circuit to save it's life from burn up.

If I remember correctly from memory there is a circuit showing a .05 ohm resistor I think must be a wire wound or coil in a patent by JOHN BEDINI.

Note the red circles showing the high watt resistors with a very low ohm value. These resistor values and placement in this PNP + NPN complementary arrangement should teach us something.

JB Energy Pump.jpg

So using the PNP + NPN gives us two devices to resistor but we should be able to trip them both one out of step with the other using the ONE timer.

Beyond that we could go to the subject I really want to focus on and THAT is GENERATOR MODE.

Generator mode could be used instead to limit inrush flows upon dumping which it important. With gen-mode the waveform will momentarily be disrupted to a few microsecond while the dump occurs and automatically self regulates itself supplying any voltage needed.

What should be noted most of all is that the power input is limited with large single surges of huge amounts of power. Other circuits like the energy pumping above decrease the size of the package as well as increasing the power handling.

It becomes a trade off. Charging should start out with more current handling and go to less and less till the battery reaches full and this can be done any number of ways.

In my case RIGHT NOW as we speak I am using 18 amp pulses to charge a 880ah battery. These batteries are the size of a golf cart. So normally a 50 amp continuous direct currents are sent to these for 20 hrs as it boils the batteries, ruins them in a few months.

Think about it with only 3 devices so far (3 MOSFETS) sending a tiny impulse to these very large batteries, I am able to bring them both up to 15.2vdc settling at 13.4vdc for an hour.

Last night I ran a small AC unit that pulled 110 amps off the battery for a short time and I learned that my inverter does not work right for inductive loads. However the TV and lights and PC's, fans etc ran all night pulling around 50 amps, well til bedtime then amp draw went to 25 amps coming off these batteries. These batteries have been conditioned for weeks and already exhibit a greater capacity than the original factory spec's.

This is only one battery. After letting it set for an hour the battery voltage showed 12.50vdc.

Mike

[BroMikey]

connections

Humm I will have to think how to hook my 555 timer circuit up to the pair of transistors.



connection.JPG

Anyone knows let see it.

Mike