Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[shylo]

switch

Hi all, I wasted 3 days trying to get this switch to work.
Hi Carroll ,will the transistor make switching in sequence , with multiple banks?
I'm loading cap banks and want to discharge them in order to keep the rotation.
I need a switch that can connect one bank after the other.
artv

[citfta]

I agree with you completely. What has always really puzzled me is the argument that those with education and experience in the field that is being discussed are accused of being blinded by that education and experience. I suppose those people would go out to explore looking for an unknown area and refuse to look at any maps of the known area. So how are they going to know when they find an unknown area? My years of experience and education are exactly what gives me the ability to recognize when something unusual is going on.

It's a curious phenomenon.

If you tell someone something that they already happen to believe, they will accept your words without question.

If you tell them something that is contrary to what they believe, they will argue against you and resist your words.

Reality is irrelevant in either case, it depends entirely on what the person believes to begin with.

This applies in general, but I find it particularly ironic when the most guilty are the ones who claim to be searching for the truth. As if you are the one who is trying to tell them lies.

Thanks for you comments.
Carroll

[dR-Green]

It's a curious phenomenon.

If you tell someone something that they already happen to believe, they will accept your words without question.

If you tell them something that is contrary to what they believe, they will argue against you and resist your words.

Reality is irrelevant in either case, it depends entirely on what the person believes to begin with.

This applies in general, but I find it particularly ironic when the most guilty are the ones who claim to be searching for the truth. As if you are the one who is trying to tell them lies.

[citfta]

I recently spent some time going back and forth with some PMs with another member of this forum about magnetic amplifiers. It seems this subject comes up on this forum from time to time. The idea keeps coming up that somehow a magnetic amplifier will amplify power. I guess the idea keeps coming up because those that have never worked in electronics are under a misconception about what an amplifier actually does.

Basically all an amplifier does is amplify a signal NOT power. There is a major difference between the two. As far as I know there is NO way to amplify power. That is what a lot of us looking for OU would love to have. I have seen some interesting results where extra power seemed to be coming from somewhere, but I have never seen anything that would be considered an amplification of power. Of course we can use leverage to increase torque or speed but that is not an increase in power.

So if an amplifier does not increase power then how does it amplify? Whether we are talking about a tube type amplifier or a solid state amplify they all work on the same principle. You use a small signal to control a large current or voltage. But you have to have a source to supply the large current or voltage. Vacuum tubes amplify voltage signals and transistors amplify current signals.

In a transistor circuit when a small signal is applied to the base of the transistor this allows a large signal to flow from the collector to emitter. So a small current signal can control a large current to give a signal that is the same as the small signal but larger. But you have to supply that large current to the collector or the small signal does nothing.

In a tube type circuit a small voltage applied to the grid of the tube can control a large voltage on the plate of the tube by controlling the small current going from the cathode to the plate (or anode) of the tube. But here again you have to supply the voltage to the plate.

A couple of years ago someone posted a circuit that was supposed to have come from Tesla (don't they all). It was a circuit that had a bunch of tubes connected in series that was supposed to amplify the power from the air to the point it could be used to run a car or your home. There was no way that circuit could do what was claimed. If you had even a very basic understanding of how vacuum tubes worked you could see it couldn't work. Yet when I tried to point that out I was of course accused of not being a "believer" in OU. While I actually do believe in OU I also don't believe in people posting garbage and insisting it is real. Especially when they have no evidence to back up their claims.

And lastly a magnetic amplifier is called that because a small DC current is used to control the saturation of the transformer and thus a 40 milliamp DC signal can control a few thousand amps of AC current.

So again to make it clear. Amplifiers amplify signal not power. They cannot produce power they only control the power that is supplied to them.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[bistander]

motor efficiency

As far as motors go I think they are already quite efficient, ....

Farmhand is quite correct if you look at a standard motor,
<snip>
I personally believe that motors are very inefficient
<snip>
around 35 t0 60% efficient like similar motors.
<snip>
In PWM there is a diode that passes current from inductive kickback back into the motor therefore increasing apparent motor efficiency. The motor is still very inefficient
<snip>

I've worked with induction motors of the 1 to 100 kW size for the past few decades. My experience is that they are very efficient to the tune of nominally 85% at rated load and speed and for very large regions of the load-speed operational map. Within a percent or so, this efficiency does not change when driven from an inverter (PWM) compared to the mains connected operation. You can find NEMA rated efficiency figures for induction motors on the sales literature and web sites of the suppliers of these motors. Those figures support the high efficiency and are verifiable.

Sorry to take your comments out of context but the source is linked and close by. Just trying to keep the post short.

bi

[mbrownn]

I know your Statement was some years ago and i allways think if i read such statements and i would be a newbie i think i would belief someone who has more than 3000 posts,but how did you came to the conclusion that a motor could not have an efficiency over 100%?Have you ever heard from Robert Adams and David Squires?
Maybe i should Not read such old posts,but i have the Feeling i should correct some statements,Imagine somebody read it and is a beginner.

[Matthew Jones]

I know your Statement was some years ago and i allways think if i read such statements and i would be a newbie i think i would belief someone who has more than 3000 posts,but how did you came to the conclusion that a motor could not have an efficiency over 100%?Have you ever heard from Robert Adams and David Squires?
Maybe i should Not read such old posts,but i have the Feeling i should correct some statements,Imagine somebody read it and is a beginner.

No need to correct Farmhand, that only gives him a reason to post again. Better he just stays gone.

Matt

[forelle]

Hi Carroll, As far as motors go I think they are already quite efficient, there
is benefit to recovering the coil collapse from switched coils, but from what I see
if the motor is pulsed the max power is reduced, and when loading a
pulsed motor if the motor tries to maintain speed the input power will increase
and the recovered energy will be more. When a pulsed motor with recovery is
accelerated by increasing the voltage input, the recovered energy is less.

This all tells me there is no free energy in a motor, all that is possible is closer
to 100% efficient. Motors are for delivering shaft power and if we reduce
maximum input power we reduce maximum shaft power, it's the in between area's where
people see what appears to be extra energy because they reduce the input
by pulsing or removing windings and recover some energy, but under full load
at full power they cannot perform as a regular motor would in my opinion, only
slightly or partially loaded motors can afford to lose "on" time to get the
recovery in my opinion and I doubt it will ever be more out than in in a modified motor.

To improve a motor I think it needs to keep the same shaft power or more
and reduce input. Testing shaft power is not simple, using a generator could
work for testing but won't give a hard figure to compare so I have little
expectation any improvements will be made unless to already inefficient
motors. Almost a waste of time trying to improve on 97% efficient.

Cheers

I know your Statement was some years ago and i allways think if i read such statements and i would be a newbie i think i would belief someone who has more than 3000 posts,but how did you came to the conclusion that a motor could not have an efficiency over 100%?Have you ever heard from Robert Adams and David Squires?
Maybe i should Not read such old posts,but i have the Feeling i should correct some statements,Imagine somebody read it and is a beginner.

[shylo]

This is interesting because I'm working with shorting input coils as well as generating coils. I've done both but , never at the same time. Generating first, Where is the best time to do the short. Is it at max production , or just after when you use that production? It would be pointless before max occurs?
If we could charge enough cap banks , fast enough, it should self run.
Shorting does provide more stored for the same amount of time.
More storage means more power ,but more work for less time.
Motor coils second, When is the best time to cut power. Is it as soon as the core becomes saturated with lines of magnetic force, or just before or after?

Then I'm going to try and sync the fields to help each other.
artv

[Matthew Jones]

I would guess not. But we are talking about normal brushed motors and I am not sure how you would go about checking those. Obviously a Newman motor has access to the coil.

Matt

[maxc]

How do you know?

Matt

Oscilloscope. But the on/off switch is broken. It's old Tektronix 564 from 1968. My Newman coil had about 3ms ring down time.

[Matthew Jones]

Is it necessary too short the coil if you know it stopped oscillating?

How do you know?

Matt

[maxc]

Because it converts the magnetic flux (Which is moving in typical iron circles) into charge and burns it off. Laminates reduce eddy currents which are a direct 50% loss in flux at the point of build up. Eddy current look like a whirlpool. Half going in the right direction the other half not. Smaller eddy currents less loss.

Shorting eliminates them too.

Shorting allows the inductor to peak its capacity every time its fired.

Matt

Is it necessary too short the coil if you know it stopped oscillating?

[Matthew Jones]

Is this what is known as residual magnetism?
This does make some sense but how does shorting the coil remove magnetism?

I believe that residual magnetism in an armature causes drag.

I have always assumed that laminated iron suffers less from this problem, but is it true?

Because it converts the magnetic flux (Which is moving in typical iron circles) into charge and burns it off. Laminates reduce eddy currents which are a direct 50% loss in flux at the point of build up. Eddy current look like a whirlpool. Half going in the right direction the other half not. Smaller eddy currents less loss.

Shorting eliminates them too.

Shorting allows the inductor to peak its capacity every time its fired.

Matt

[mbrownn]

I asked for it Ill do my best to answer.

So that is what I'm seeing ...magnetism is a product of time and gravity?

No one has yet proved what magnetism is, we know it acts as a force and can induce current to flow in a wire. We are also discovering that it is far more complex in its makeup than we imagined.

Any thing causes drag is , gravity?

Shorting a coil , just reverses the process causing equallibrium, for as long as the short is applied, then production takes place ?

Shorting a coil will allow any voltage or current in it to dissipate, so any resuting magnetic effects will dissipate also.

Has anyone ever tried to make a motor or gen that works in reverse?
Run it equal , and then force it out of balance?

A motor is a generator and a generator is a motor. Run a motor in reverse, ie your input is mechanical, and it generates. The same goes for a generator. Im not sure what you mean by the second question.

The testing I'm seeing is saying that when I think it should happen , it is doing the opposite. It should charge but it doesn't.
Do the fields of permanent magnets, just collapse ,or gradually diminish?

The field of a permanent magnet will last for hundreds of years provided it is not overheated, shocked or exposed to a very strong field in another direction.

Electro-magnets , are there or their not, a PM is there all the time.
If you pull more out of a generating coil, than what you put into motoring a coil and they're wound in conjuncton, and their wound to assit each other...
Will that not work?