My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[bistander]

I know all you have written above. I know you could make an electromagnet the size of a Mansion as well.

I know electromagnets are used to "stamp" the magnetic field within the ceramic mass.

I was referring at the limited space within a motor armature

Realize the units of Tesla (flux density) refer to Webers/square meter (flux per unit area). Therefore size doesn't matter. The electromagnet can be stronger than a permanent magnet whether it is on the cm scale or the m scale or the km scale. The most torque dense motors (attributing to flux and current) are wound field motors, not PM motors. Namely the series wound DC and the switched reluctance motors.

bi

[HuntingRoss]

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The point in this whole deal above...is that the Brush positioning DOES Matter, basically if we are overlooking the 3D Alignment planes.

Second: The position of Brushes, related to Stators Bisectors is our only way to adjust timing. It could be the other way around...meaning moving Stators related to brushes...but...who is gonna do that with fixed magnets structure?...or in bigger size motors like Imperial?

Now, Mark, getting back at your statement, brushes positioning not important?...I really can not understand how could you state that...since it is the ONLY means We have to set the timing?

@UFO

You have introduced a whole new level of complexity to the discussion which I had deliberately avoided under the title of 'fine detail'. Until now I have only discussed the broad principles and briefly alluded to some points that need to be considered under that title of 'fine'.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you have also changed the terms of reference. We had previously agreed that the brushes could be in Japan and Ireland because the position is not important and now positioning DOES Matternever 2 comm segments energised at the same time. That would be a pretty incompetent build, but it's not beyond the wit of man to understand.

Can we get to a position where there is one categoric statement on a perfectly aligned motor that concludes the time on the brush (sweep angle or any other term we care to adopt) is critical in the calculation of motor timing ?

Keep Hunting

mark

[Ufopolitics]

---S---

@UFO

You have introduced a whole new level of complexity to the discussion which I had deliberately avoided under the title of 'fine detail'. Until now I have only discussed the broad principles and briefly alluded to some points that need to be considered under that title of 'fine'.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you have also changed the terms of reference. We had previously agreed that the brushes could be in Japan and Ireland because the position is not important and now positioning DOES Matter.


Keep Hunting

mark

The wires from Pair Coils to be attached to Commutator Elements-Brushes...I could flex, pull, stretch, Turn them left or right...up or down and connect them wherever I please to do...within interacting angles, or away by 10, 20, 50 100 degrees...it DOES NOT MATTER...that is just an ON-OFF Switching...as a matter of fact one (Understanding "One" as "SWITCH ASSY" NOT JUST "THE BRUSH" Positioning

Mark, after your response above related to Ireland and Japan and just Brushes positioning...I've realized we both have a very serious problem in understanding each others.

I have highlighted the important part of my paragraph where I mentioned that...take a look at it again...

I am talking about the whole switch assembly that could be anywhere you wanted. And, that switch assembly includes the brushes, BUT as well as the other part of the switch, the contacts...or, in this case the Commutator Elements and, of course the wires terminals that come from each independent coils.

There is a HUGE difference if you move JUST the brushes...and leave the other part of switch...meaning first the lead wires, and the contact plates (commutator elements) in the same location related to Coils Bisectors and Stators specific contacting position.

It don't matter that commutator rotates during operation...always would be "a point" where brushes will reach the specific contacts that makes "the whole switch" turn on.

Just moving the brushes...not anything else...not the wires at contacting plates...not the magnets...it will advance or retard the timing.

The reason of the whole comparison about ONE of the "switch assy" in Japan and the other switch assy in Ireland...was to try to explain that both switches could be anywhere you decide...it don't matter...therefore is NOT relevant to be included within (added) the real magnetic interaction angles taking place between coils and magnets.

This is talking about a Two Commutator and two set of brushes that makes two Switches Assemblies, one upper, one lower.

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Realize the units of Tesla (flux density) refer to Webers/square meter (flux per unit area). Therefore size doesn't matter. The electromagnet can be stronger than a permanent magnet whether it is on the cm scale or the m scale or the km scale. The most torque dense motors (attributing to flux and current) are wound field motors, not PM motors. Namely the series wound DC and the switched reluctance motors.

bi

Look, Bistander, you are completely right, correct, I was wrong...

[Ufopolitics]

---S---

Can we get to a position where there is one categoric statement on a perfectly aligned motor that concludes the time on the brush (sweep angle or any other term we care to adopt) is critical in the calculation of motor timing ?

Keep Hunting

mark

[wayne.ct]

The misalignments you are now discussing are the very reasons why I adopted the double comm build that I did...and explained this at the time. The ability for new builders to achieve this level of accuracy on the kitchen table without the correct equipment is a matter of degrees more difficult. It is why I eventually pursued the single comm build because it allows a new builder to perfect the build and avoid focusing on misalignment issues. The single comm is always aligned.

You guys are hilarious. This clip tells me all I need to know as to who is right and who is wrong. (Edit: Rereading this, I can't tell who is talking.. Is UFO the single comm guy? Or, is it Mark?)

Person 1, you will never be able to do what Person 2 will do precisely because you are trying to convert from a dual commutator configuration to a single comm build. You think a new builder is going to succeed with a single comm configuration, when what you are really doing is condemning the poor newbie to endless failure. Your single comm solution will never work. The reason is simple. By adjusting the brushes in the dual comm build, you can arbitrarily REDUCE the on time as much as needed to get the desired DC pulse to the appropriate wind. You don't think that is important? Too bad. Good luck with your single comm idea.

[Ufopolitics]

You guys are hilarious. This clip tells me all I need to know as to who is right and who is wrong. (Edit: Rereading this, I can't tell who is talking.. Is UFO the single comm guy? Or, is it Mark?)

Person 1, you will never be able to do what Person 2 will do precisely because you are trying to convert from a dual commutator configuration to a single comm build. You think a new builder is going to succeed with a single comm configuration, when what you are really doing is condemning the poor newbie to endless failure. Your single comm solution will never work. The reason is simple. By adjusting the brushes in the dual comm build, you can arbitrarily REDUCE the on time as much as needed to get the desired DC pulse to the appropriate wind. You don't think that is important? Too bad. Good luck with your single comm idea.

Thanks Wayne,

But...I will only HOPE that Mark was referring to a full Asymmetric Dual Commutator System...Ohhhhh noooo!!








(I am praying here so we were on same track!)


Wayne...I am the Dual Comm...but Mark wrote "that is why I "adopted" the two comm"??!!...hope is not a typo

[BroMikey]

You really need desperately to seek for psychiatric help Richard...I believe working with your only motor for too long and for the first time in your life , all this windings and loose wires, commutators, brushes angles...etc,etc has been more than what you could handle...it has caused serious delusional symptoms you are exposing all over this Forum.

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

I am pretty sure there should be some excellent Doctors in Psychiatry in Japan...I am being seriously as a heart attack!

Ask them to run on you an APT "Asymmetric Pathology Testing"

Hi UFO

It is good to see you back working on your new motor. Thank you for all of
your efforts getting you ideas out into the public domain. A small note
on the trolls, these people want a free lunch, don't let them take yours

It's show time for you and personally I am looking forward to better things.

There are thousands of us and we all see how these trolls worm their
way in twisting everything around. Take no prisoners, don't pet the trolls

You are the best there is, thanks to all of the other guys too, I won't
name them ALL, you know who you are, standing with UFO.

We are with you UFO.

Mikey

[sampojo]

Re: Post 7729 quad 10 pole analysis

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--S---

@UFO

It is my understanding that we have agreed on all the critical angles making up the connect/disconnect sequence including the 'final agreement' which was including the brush width in the calculation...the sweep angle...the roll off angle or what ever we want to call it.

We are both at a disadvantage, it seems, by not having the complete motor specs. But in fact the only critical spec missing from this 10 pole arrangement is the brush width which is very

If Sam can confirm the brush width then we will know for certain what is achievable with this motor.

Happy Hunting

mark

Ufo has remarked on the uniqueness of this design. Another way of saying they dont usually combine 10 poles with quad stators, and maybe for good reason, after all it is a product of my imagination Seems to run pretty nice though, if I don't say so myself!

If it helps to find out if this design has any inherent good qualities, my brushes are about 3/4's the width of the comm segments.

I haven't had time to digest your discussions here and previously, but in the end, is it an analysis on whether there is a potential for the "sweet spot"?

Thank you for all these analyses, as I plan my next moves...

PS: Ufo, my personal thanks for not losing heart in the tough situations we can find ourselves in dealing in public and finding the perseverance and dedication to share your engineering discoveries and to continue to help us...

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo has remarked on the uniqueness of this design. Another way of saying they dont usually combine 10 poles with quad stators, and maybe for good reason, after all it is a product of my imagination Seems to run pretty nice though, if I don't say so myself!

my brushes are about 3/4's the width of the comm segments.

What you really would have to make sure...(and this is the most important part) is about deciding between four pole or three poles coils...I suggested the four poles because it will deliver a much faster motor than the three pole coils...and the only way to find out if the four will work...is to wind two adjacent coils (C1-C2) and "mechanically" hand check if disconnection takes place from C2 before it reaches South Stator Bisector....that's all!...if it don't...then go for the three pole coils...simple enough?

Another thing that I suggest is to try position of your whole switch, meaning the contacting segments from commutator, the wires to connect to them and Brush... WITHIN the Angle between your C1 Bisector to C2 Bisector. This way you would be doing each 'switching' within each interaction magnetic angle...so no adding, no subtracting absolutely nothing from switching sweeping angle...because both angles (magnetic interaction plus switch sweep angle) would be contained within each others. In very simple description...use the CENTER Commutator segment for each Coil total number of poles (3 or 4)...as long as you could bring brush as well there, in order to establish contact related to stator bisectors.

I haven't had time to digest your discussions here and previously, but in the end, is it an analysis on whether there is a potential for the "sweet spot"?

Thank you for all these analyses, as I plan my next moves...

I don't blame you to be confused and still not finding out the point of all this arguments up to now...about your unique creation...

First Midaz invaded this Thread with all his BS...

Then join the arguments Mr. Hunting Ross...

Plus all my other added comments related to the flames ...more CAD's and so much screaming...

Sorry about all this explosion about your ten pole...

I bet you never thought it would be that "famous"!!...

PS: Ufo, my personal thanks for not losing heart in the tough situations we can find ourselves in dealing in public and finding the perseverance and dedication to share your engineering discoveries and to continue to help us...

Hey, Sam, thanks!...yeap, it wouldn't happen (losing heart here) just because I have such a powerful card under my sleeve, my friend...that it makes me so sure about everything I am sharing here...


Anyways...let me know if now you've got everything above clearer or not...please do not hesitate to say it out loud!


Your ten pole four stator is now the "Prima Dona" of the show...


Kind regards


Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

[IMG][/IMG]
Image 1 - P1 connecting.

[IMG][/IMG]
Image 2 - P2 disconnecting.

[IMG]Image 1.Image 2.Image 3.

[HuntingRoss]

If it helps to find out if this design has any inherent good qualities, my brushes are about 3/4's the width of the comm segments.

[HuntingRoss]

Then join the arguments Mr. Hunting Ross...

Just for clarity. I have no argument with Sam or his motor.

My involvement on this specific topic is to tidy up unfinished business relating to incorrect comments relating to 4 pole pairs pertaining to one of my historic CAD schematics.

There has been to date, a robust discussion on the subject. And I'm certainly not 'falling out' with anyone over the subject.

In fact. With my last post on this subject, if this doesn't settle the matter there is no reason to go any further with it. It can not be put any simpler.

Happy Hunting

mark

[Ufopolitics]

your connected comm has to sweep approximately .

Above you wrote "connected commutator"...but, connected comm. what?...segment?...or whole comm.?...think you missed the word right?


Related to Sampojo...please, do not tell him to add both angles Mark...he is enough confused here, because of previous attacks from this delusional guy...Let allow him to answer my previous post addressed to him first, to see if he understood everything I wrote....and if so...I rather wait to see His results after he test his ten pole motor.


Sincerely


Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

P1 is turning On, Coils are energized, then the magnetic interaction starts moving the shaft until it disconnects commutator segment from brush.

I truly do understand the mechanics of this operation. It pains me that with all that has been written and drawn on this topic we can not come to understand each other.

Your comment above is agreeing with me, yet you think I still don't understand.

The coils are energised. The shaft with the commutator and the coils, all together, move from connection to disconnection. I understand that. The quantity of that movement is described by the width of the commutator segment plus the width of the brush. They all move together that distance together. And those coil bisectors (pairs and groups) move that distance because they all move together.

Then why in this World do we need to add brush sweeping angle plus coils sweeping angles like if they occur at different Times/Angles?...Or delayed by any 'unknown' reason?...

What I see is that... until you do not see this...We can not keep discussing about further alignments in your motor.

I agree that there is no more mileage in discussing this point. It seems neither of us are convinced by the others persuasion.

Above you wrote "connected commutator"...but, connected comm. what?...segment?...or whole comm.?...think you missed the word right?

Correct. It wasn't as clear as it could be. In the context it seemed OK. Being I was talking about the connection to disconnection. If that confused anyone, apologies for that.

Keep Hunting

mark