Use for the Tesla Switch

[SeaMonkey]

Hi Seamonkey,
I see the boys are giving You the back spat, , (he,he,...)


However, a little spoon feeding is permissible here and there for the sake of the layman following this discussion? There are layman following this thread remember?

So, to avoid being totally legs in air, I lumped together a "sheet" of some sane TS PVAmp topologies. Feedback would be greatly appreciated

Why i stick to TS-PVAmp?
1. It has just the one half of the full TS
2. It is easy to follow
3. It is easy applicable to a working PV system (to be checked)
4. It can be understood and dealt with by layman IMHO

Once (if ever) we master the PVAmp, we delve into the main beast:
the 6bat full TS with peaks above 200A (I promise)

And last, not least:
Never forget Tesla , he pioneered the "free research" and fought for freedom of (responsible) thought, truth and speech...

Best regards,
Stevan C.

You're quite handy with the 'graphics' Stevan.
Your work is good and stimulates thought.

The 'charge pump' approach is effective, even
though an efficient implementation does
present some 'problems' in need of creative
solutions.

Since the PV array will often be a lower voltage
than the battery/batteries being charged by
means of high current pulses, there may be
an easier (yet equally effective) way to
produce the high voltage charge before it is
'dumped' into the battery/batteries.

Think 'photo-flash' unit. But, on a somewhat
lower voltage scale.

You're already familiar with the process of
raising a low voltage DC level to a much
higher DC level.

As for the 'back spat'... well, it happens.

In time 'maturity' will be restored and real
progress can begin...

[ren]

Matt,



That POWER is the result of a collapsing magnetic
field and it can appear in an impedance dependent
context. Fed into a low impedance it is 'transformed'
into low voltage/high current. Fed into a high impedance
it is 'transformed' into a high voltage/low current.

In each case the POWER content is the same.

We should 'harvest' the over-unity surplus power
in a format which presents NO HAZARD to the operation
of the circuit.

Thinking that the POWER must be harvested as a
HIGH VOLTAGE is erroneous thinking.

The Inductor functions as a DC TRANSFORMER and
thus is capable of supplying the POWER in any
convenient form (within reason.)

Observe the "h" waveform as the Magnetic Field
Energy is transferred to a load. Do you truly understand
what you see for the duration of the pulse?

SeaMonkey,

I liked the description of how the inductive discharge can differ in low and high impedances. Ive been fiddling around with different loads on the back end of the SG and this seems to fit my understanding.

I like to take a fresh view however on the comment "collapsing magnetic field" however true it may be. There is just something in that description that seems so plain and boring to me. I prefer Eric Dollards description:

Very interesting (and dangerous) phenomena manifest themselves when the current path is interrupted, thereby causing infinite resistance to appear. In this case resistance is best represented by its inverse, conductance. The conductance is then zero. Because the current vanished instantly the field collapses at a velocity approaching that of light. As EMF is directly related to velocity of flux, it tends towards infinity. Very powerful effects are produced because the field is attempting to maintain current by producing whatever EMF required. If a considerable amount of energy exists, say several kilowatt hours (250 KWH for lightning stroke), the ensuing discharge can produce most profound effects and can completely destroy inadequately protected apparatus.

Erics descriptions almost makes me think the inductor has become a signal generator that rapidly rises to a ridiculous frequency in an attempt to maintain current flow in the inductor. Maybe this is one and the same, he uses the terms in his sentence (field collapses) but a little more description in HOW it collapses I feel provides much insight.

Id love to see some of these improvements you talk of. We are all here to learn, we all have our different methods, as we are all at different levels of understanding. I hope you can teach us some of these circuits you speak of, even a simple SG with a mosfet driver would be something interesting to start with. Only a handful of us have any real experience with mosfets, I just ordered a solid state Tesla coil kit in an attempt to get my feet wet in a more complicated circuit. But I feel there is a limit to complicating these circuits. the old KISS method rings true in many cases. But please, prove us wrong by sharing a more complicated circuit, and how it is an improvement on the original. I saw a chap using a mosfet on an SG once, he didnt use any drivers, just a reed switch to connect the battery directly to the gate at the correct time. Not sure how well this works, but it rotated and gave inductive kick, so he was half way there I guess. I guess you probably dont have the time to teach it to us all, but something to replicate would be a start. We could then begin our own study, develop our own understandings, and perhaps one day agree with you

Nothing is more frustrating in this search than someone who speaks of ideals yet is unwilling to share them. All of us here readily share all that we discover because we are sick of a world where secrets are kept that way so a few may benefit and place themselves over the many. Perhaps you feel that none of us are "worthy" or that we cannot understand, and maybe you are right (about the understanding part anyway) but just look at how this thread took off when JB came and shared some of his knowledge. Everyones device and variation of started taking off, because people were informed, inspired and challenged to tackle something from a fresh angle, with guidance from an expert.

Regards

[citfta]

PVAmp

Hi Steven,

I don't have any mosfets so I can't build your mosfet circuits at this time. I did print out your page of circuits and decided to try the BJTs booster circuit since it is so simple. Well maybe too simple. I found that since the positive of the top output cap and the negative of the lower output cap are always connected to the input cap when you turn on the series out transistor you now have about 24 volts reflected back to the input cap. Since I don't have a solar panel and was really only interested in how the circuit works I have a pair of 12 volt 7 AH batteries in parallel as my source to the input cap. I have not seen hardly any rise in voltage on the charge batteries ( also a pair of 12 v 7 AH batts in parallel ). But it seems your circuit is working like the scalar charger. The voltage on my input batts is slowing going up at a rate of about .01 volts per hour. I am going to let it run for a while and see if this rise is only temporary or if they will continue to charge up. I am driving the mjl21194 transistors with opto isolators connected the way JB showed us with the cap and diode. I am using a pic chip to control the optos. At the present time I have a charge time of 250 ms and a discharge time of 100 ms with a 50 ms pause between charge and discharge times. Thank you for posting the circuits. I always look forward to your posts.


As far as Seamonkey goes if you will look at some of my previous posts you will see I respectfully and sincerely asked him to explain a couple of things about what he was posting. The first time he just ignored my questions and said I didn't want to change my mind about what I thought. The second time I again tried to respectfully ask some questions and suggested he might want to try his ideas in the real world. This time he said I was ignorant and didn't understand real circuits. I am sorry if I have offended you because of my last post to him. I have great respect for you but unless Seamonkey changes his attitude I won't waste anymore time with him.

[nvisser]

So,
no one is actually interested to the TS-PVAmp schematic I posted anymore?


Or, are we ready to try compare the actuall losses BJT way vs MOSFET way and move on any time soon?

And are there any ways to circumvent the MOSFET inherent flaw of onidirectional current braking, so we could fanally use it's inherent advantege of ultra low FVD at at least four times the AMPERE density a BJT has?

Or could we find BJTs that are 40V/60A-DC rated that handle 120A surges and have a hFE of at least 100@60A-DC while below 2V (120W burned out of 2.4kW passing) VCEsat?

Or shall i seek other company?


Stevan C.

Sorry Steven. I also has no idea what you are talking about.

[ldissing]

What would be the significance of a 'circuit' that
develops 'frost?'

Why would the SG3524 not run in 'cold' temperatures?

I could easily make a circuit that would 'frost up' and
so could you. But, what would be the point of it?

I am not certain what 'help' means to you and what
would satisfy your desire for it. What are you
wanting to be provided specifically?

@SeaMonkey:

If I wasn't so stupid, I wouldn't be here! If I was brilliant, I'd say...this is HOW you do it and WHY. So either way, I'd be learning or teaching, but not just showing my superiority by suggesting a lot of ideas that I had not already proven for myself. That is what most of these people are asking for, I believe. Show us the circuit, tell us how and why it works, then you can begin your lecture and instruct us on WHY you are THE man with the knowledge.

Let me clear up a few points....
1. I could NOT make a circuit that would get cold unless I put it in the fridge.
2. I understand and agree completely with the inductor resisting current change and HV potential spike upon cessation of current. I have been saying this for several years.
3. I agree that MOSFETS have superior switching characteristics in terms of speed and amp carrying capability. At least my study of them seems to indicate this.

So, where do we start. JB talked about negative resistance in this forum. He said that Naudin showed it, but had not figured out how to use it. He did not say anything more on Naudin, except that he thought we could figure it out. I do not believe that I have figured that out. I know how to make a BJT "go negative" but have not figured out how to use this to my advantage.

I do not know if the MOSFET can act as a negative resistor (negistor). I have never designed a circuit with any type of FET. Is it your contention that the negistor is "not needed" or that a MOSFET can be a negistor?

You indicated that Dave's circuit was too complicated. Why do you not suggest where it is too complicated and suggest alternatives. (The circuit is actually fairly simple and the controller part of the schematic was not shown in the post). The controller is actually more complicated. Is it that you do not think the 4 battery TS is useful? You said in one post that it was "old technology"....does that mean that should not be studied?

JB indicated that he preferred to use BJTs, not FETS in this application. Perhaps JB was not telling us because he did not want us to use MOSFETs. Perhaps MOSFETs would be superior and work better? This seems to be what you are saying, although, I have not "studied" everything you have written in this forum, but read casually through it.

Perhaps you can help me to understand finesse. Perhaps you can "show" me how to test the circuits I build and understand what is going on with limited resources, i.e. equipment, time, money, brain power and intellect.

Like Matt says, I am not opposed to trying new things. But again, a picture us worth a thousand words, i.e. a circuit. Budget does have constraints though.

@Stevan,

You are the TS-PV man Stevan. I have not built the circuit and don't have the resources to do that. However, a TS is pretty close to your TS-PV, so slight mods could be done to my TS to make it a TS-PV. I do not have the desire/time to build my own variable power supply and my solar panel was broken in the move, so unless I fork out some bucks to buy one or both of these, I'm dead in the water.

I wish I could work on the TS-PV, but I only have so much time. I will get around to doing that though, it just isn't in the cards at the present time unless I can just modify my current TS a little bit.

Leroy

[Matthew Jones]

So,
no one is actually interested to the TS-PVAmp schematic I posted anymore?

Or, are we ready to try compare the actuall losses BJT way vs MOSFET way and move on any time soon?
And are there any ways to circumvent the MOSFET inherent flaw of onidirectional current braking, so we could fanally use it's inherent advantege of ultra low FVD at at least four times the AMPERE density a BJT has?
Or could we find BJTs that are 40V/60A-DC rated that handle 120A surges and have a hFE of at least 100@60A-DC while below 2V (120W burned out of 2.4kW passing) VCEsat?
Or shall i seek other company?

Stevan C.

I myself just work with the 4 battery + switch so I can only watch your progress at this point. Without understanding what it is doing I have no input for ya.

I am interested though.

Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

So,
no one is actually interested to the TS-PVAmp schematic I posted anymore?


Stevan C.

@StevenC, we are always interested Steven, however perhaps you could repost the schematics in a more conventional format so we can better understand your thought's.

Thanks

Jeff

[StevanC]

So,
no one is actually interested to the TS-PVAmp schematic I posted anymore?


Or, are we ready to try compare the actuall losses BJT way vs MOSFET way and move on any time soon?

And are there any ways to circumvent the MOSFET inherent flaw of onidirectional current braking, so we could fanally use it's inherent advantege of ultra low FVD at at least four times the AMPERE density a BJT has?

Or could we find BJTs that are 40V/60A-DC rated that handle 120A surges and have a hFE of at least 100@60A-DC while below 2V (120W burned out of 2.4kW passing) VCEsat?

Or shall i seek other company?


Stevan C.

[Matthew Jones]

Damn Guys I think your being a little hard on SeaMonkey. Most of you guys are light years ahead of me but SeaMonkey appears to have a good understanding of how to work with mosfets to create the radiant event. I admit it would be nice if he would design and post a curcuit but why would you want to burn your bridges with him just because he wont hand it to you. Even though he hasn't given you what you want he seems to be willing to help you with your understanding. My guess is that if you design a mosfet cicuit he would help you trouble shoot it. Ease up a little I know your frustrated, all of us are.
Now SeaMonkey the question you haven't answered directly is WILL YOU HELP DESIGN A MOSFET CIRCUIT? If not, why not?
Mark
Hope I didn't offend anyone just trying to keep the peace so we can continue working together.

This will be the last time I post on the matter.
This is about the third time someone has just showed up from the blue and acted like we are all blind to the possibilities of using something different. They all had a typical behavior pattern.
They make subtle insults, like " Its not going right because you are unwilling to learn", or the most recent "Your in a rut". But I have no problems with the way my work is going, I can only speak for myself.
"Your ignorance of the way things work in the EE community is the problem". Yet the EE's that have allowed me to show them the Tesla Switch says that the TS is not even something they would have thought to work.
The person has a revolutionary new way of doing everything, Their way. But of course he can't let the cat out of the bag.
When fact checked this persons answers seem to be incoherent with the research I have done and watch other people do. Of course they have incoherent answers for why we must be wrong.
Then when all else fails its more subtle insults and a lack of willingness to help or alter the educate that used.

Now if it where me walking in on the discussion in which I though I could contribute I would come with example and the willingness to at least understand that the existing crowd of people probably know a little about what they are doing. If I was convinced my way was better I would go far out of my way to prove it. Putting a small circiut together is not that big of challenge.

So I hope you can understand when I say, I am not trying to burn anything, SeaMonkey did that when he walked in here. And If I opinion is skewed in someway I apologize to all.
In the three years I been hear this typical type of person does not contribute in the long run they only delay. If the goal is to contribute simply hand drawing a proposed schematic and stating case is all that is needed. I am always willing to try something new. Thats the primary reason I have so many builds. I am always willing offer an civil explanation for or against any proposed project solely based on experience. But If my understanding of some thing are flawed then I can easily alter that. And again I'll try anything.

Like I said this is the last time I'll get into this. Educate matters, people are not so willing to change the course of the research they are doing based on a few pretty words and some subtle insults. No one should for that matter....

Matthew Jones

[StevanC]

You must have got up 15 minutes before me Steven Nice post.

Mark: bullseye
Stevan C.

[StevanC]

Mnaah, dP-{}} (<-beware it's the blackbeard's emotycon!)

I say we let 'em walk the plank till he feeds the sharks...

kidding,
Stevan C.

P.S.
can do Yoda too:
-._.-

see?

[Mark]

You must have got up 15 minutes before me Steven Nice post.

[Mark]

Damn Guys I think your being a little hard on SeaMonkey. Most of you guys are light years ahead of me but SeaMonkey appears to have a good understanding of how to work with mosfets to create the radiant event. I admit it would be nice if he would design and post a curcuit but why would you want to burn your bridges with him just because he wont hand it to you. Even though he hasn't given you what you want he seems to be willing to help you with your understanding. My guess is that if you design a mosfet cicuit he would help you trouble shoot it. Ease up a little I know your frustrated, all of us are.

Now SeaMonkey the question you haven't answered directly is WILL YOU HELP DESIGN A MOSFET CIRCUIT? If not, why not?

Mark

Hope I didn't offend anyone just trying to keep the peace so we can continue working together.

[StevanC]

cease the spat on the back, please?

Hi Seamonkey,
I see the boys are giving You the back spat, , (he,he,...)


@"boys"
Hey lads, take it easy (=patience), please?

Don't bother to understand, we had a hard time to get here, and sometimes we rant out of sheer impatience to get where we are going.
boys...

...You know...

However, a little spoon feeding is permissible here and there for the sake of the layman following this discussion? There are layman following this thread remember?

So, to avoid being totally legs in air, I lumped together a "sheet" of some sane TS PVAmp topologies. Feedback would be greatly appreciated

Why i stick to TS-PVAmp?
1. It has just the one half of the full TS
2. It is easy to follow
3. It is easy applicable to a working PV system (to be checked)
4. It can be understood and dealt with by layman IMHO

Once (if ever) we master the PVAmp, we delve into the main beast:
the 6bat full TS with peaks above 200A (I promise)

And last, not least:
Never forget Tesla , he pioneered the "free research" and fought for freedom of (responsible) thought, truth and speech...

Best regards,
Stevan C.

[citfta]

Ignorance?

For your information, in my ignorance I graduated with a 4.0 GPA in industrial electronics. I spent 5 years working in a department where I debugged the circuits designed by "engineers" that did not work as they thought they would. It is becoming very obvious you are only interested in trying to show us you have some great knowledge the rest of us are too ignorant to appreciate. I for one am not going to waste any more time with you since you only want to argue about how smart you are instead of actually contributing anything useful.

Carroll