Use for the Tesla Switch

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks for the comment John. However, I only have one further comment at this stage. This is regarding low capacitor coupling for the ac output from a working TS.

The output should be a pulse transformer, most of these are designed for specific applications. Experimenters tend to use whats under the bench. This sets the stage for a very dangerous scenario. Without some coupling the transformer will be coupled directly to the terminals of the battery, regardless of them being negative. As the Switch is oscillating back and forth one terminal will always be positive with regards to the other terminal. When the pulsing is operational charging should take place. This will involve gassing within the battery. Any unwanted live BEMF or transient spark could cause the battery to ignite internally and explode. Anyone in the close vicinity of this explosion is likely to suffer acid burns, even loss of sight.

This is a safety warning to all those thinking of following incorrect advice to not decouple your transformers with capacitors or series chokes and capacitors. BE WARNED.

Maybe I shall resurrect my Switch and put it on youtube - working. I'll have to think long and hard about that after today events.

Regards

Thats funny at best. I pulled huge loads off of mine, and never even seen a bubble come out of the fluid. And I have looked.

I would like to see yours as well. Lets see what a PRO can do. A real Engineer. LOL

Matt

[hherby]

I was unable to find a description/definition in your referenced link to "low capacitance coupling Transformer types"

I stand corrected. I see what you are referring to under the Pulsed Transformers section excerpt shown below

Transformer types - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pulse transformers

A pulse transformer is a transformer that is optimised for transmitting rectangular electrical pulses (that is, pulses with fast rise and fall times and a relatively constant amplitude). Small versions called signal types are used in digital logic and telecommunications circuits, often for matching logic drivers to transmission lines. Medium-sized power versions are used in power-control circuits such as camera flash controllers. Larger power versions are used in the electrical power distribution industry to interface low-voltage control circuitry to the high-voltage gates of power semiconductors. Special high voltage pulse transformers are also used to generate high power pulses for radar, particle accelerators, or other high energy pulsed power applications.

To minimise distortion of the pulse shape, a pulse transformer needs to have low values of leakage inductance and distributed capacitance, and a high open-circuit inductance. In power-type pulse transformers, a low coupling capacitance (between the primary and secondary) is important to protect the circuitry on the primary side from high-powered transients created by the load. For the same reason, high insulation resistance and high breakdown voltage are required. A good transient response is necessary to maintain the rectangular pulse shape at the secondary, because a pulse with slow edges would create switching losses in the power semiconductors.

The product of the peak pulse voltage and the duration of the pulse (or more accurately, the voltage-time integral) is often used to characterise pulse transformers. Generally speaking, the larger this product, the larger and more expensive the transformer.

Pulse transformers by definition have a duty cycle of less than 0.5, whatever energy stored in the coil during the pulse must be "dumped" out before the pulse is fired again.

Regards,
Alex

[hherby]

Thanks for the comment John. However, I only have one further comment at this stage. This is regarding low capacitor coupling for the ac output from a working TS.

The output should be a pulse transformer, most of these are designed for specific applications. Experimenters tend to use whats under the bench. This sets the stage for a very dangerous scenario. Without some coupling the transformer will be coupled directly to the terminals of the battery, regardless of them being negative. As the Switch is oscillating back and forth one terminal will always be positive with regards to the other terminal. When the pulsing is operational charging should take place. This will involve gassing within the battery. Any unwanted live BEMF or transient spark could cause the battery to ignite internally and explode. Anyone in the close vicinity of this explosion is likely to suffer acid burns, even loss of sight.

This is a safety warning to all those thinking of following incorrect advice to not decouple your transformers with capacitors or series chokes and capacitors. BE WARNED.

Hello Rob,
When you speak of decoupling the transformer, do you mean having a cap across the primary terminals and if so would that be a monolithic or bipolar cap? Or are you referring to the series capacitors on either side of the full wave bridge as shown in Chapter 5 of Patrick Kelly's document? Can you elaborate on this please?

1) ref: low capacitance coupling Transformer types - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2)At the rear of pdf quoted above tests performed by Eike Mueller, on page 28, he state "low voltage of battery #2 - marked with * in the table 3 - is most likely caused by the BEMF from the transformer".

I was unable to find a description/definition in your referenced link to "low capacitance coupling Transformer types"

In the experiments in the Eike Mueller report, they did not have any sort of decoupling for the transformer that I could see. I took the comment about the failure of the battery due to back EMF from the transformer as being a "possible" cause as "most likely caused" did not qualify it as a definitive cause to me anyway. That is indeed a subject worthy of further empirical investigation. In JB's SSG circuit, the back emf spike is directly channeled to the charge battery on purpose which also makes this a confusing subject.

Another example is the use of an H bridge for DC motor control. In that setup, the switching devices are protected with bypass diodes but there are no provisions to prevent spikes from reaching the batteries.

So I guess the question is under what conditions is it safe and under what conditions is it not safe?

Maybe I shall resurrect my Switch and put it on youtube - working. I'll have to think long and hard about that after today events.

Regards

That is entirely your choice. I would really be interested in seeing your working implementation.

The TS is not all it is cracked up to be.

Can you elaborate a little on this please?

Thanks,

Alex

[hherby]

That would depend on the size of the core I am not sure of its size so....

Hi Matt,
This is the E-Core that is used in my transformers Tempel
The center leg is 1.25" x 2" (2" stack of laminations) = 2.5 sq in with a 7.5" magnetic path length.

Good thing to start with is to make the output winding 1/3 longer than the input winding. In a perfect world it should work that you have a 12vac current running on the 2 primaries and with 1/3 more wire you'll end up with 18 volt. But in reality you'll have something like 17.2 especially if you hand winding. Then you can go back and clip a few feet off until you hit your desired voltage.
Depending on the open space in the core you might want to use 2 strands of 18. 1 may be enough. Shoot for less than 1 Ohm of resistance somewhere like .1 or lower is better.

You gotta understand too small of a number of turns you won't hit desired voltage but if you have a good number of turns and low resistance you'll get what you want.

Here is a cap dump solution for ya. Change the zenier to what you want

Thanks for the schem. Excuse my limited electronics knowledge. I don't quite understand how this circuit works. The two caps, 3 batteries and zener are all in series. So we have 36v across the batteries. At what voltage of the charge cap does the zener start to conduct? Once the zener does conduct, I assume the cap across the SSR input charges until the SSR turn-on threshold is reached and will stay open until the voltage in the cap across the SSR input drops below the turn-off threshold?

But what are you driving the switch's with? An IC. Use it to dump.
Run the switching till the cap are at the capacity then dump.

At first I will drive the switching with JB's SG3524 PWM circuit posted earlier in the thread. Later I will switch to PICAXE or AVR micro so I can use the ADC's to check voltages and other output pins to control bank switching relays. I will also be using the cap dump circuit in other projects that do not use any kind of intelligent switching so the cap dumps solely when the cap voltage reaches a preset value like 24v to dump into a 12v battery.

Just a word of advice look at the schematic closely.
ON your transformer wire you have 2 points (Not counting the output) to pay attention too. The start and the finish.
Look at the left bank of batteries. The power goes into the start of the winding and come out of the finish.
Look at the right bank of batteries. The power goes into the finish winding and comes out of the start.
If you run both of them into the start and out of the finish you'll cook those switch's from inrush currents

Don't even turn the thing on until you have diodes in place for protection.

Would a 1N4007 be sufficient to protect the relay or do I need something beefier like a IN5408 or higher?

Run at a high speed (600 to 800 hz) at first until you get comfortable with your system.

Make a checklist for connection and triple check it.

The advice is not to make you look bad its to try to save you some money. Lord know I wish someone would have told me.

You need anything hollar.

Matt

Excellent advice. I didn't even consider having to deal with inrush currents. I really appreciate the heads up.

Thanks Matt.

Alex

[John_K]

Thanks for the comment John. However, I only have one further comment at this stage. This is regarding low capacitor coupling for the ac output from a working TS.

The output should be a pulse transformer, most of these are designed for specific applications. Experimenters tend to use whats under the bench. This sets the stage for a very dangerous scenario. Without some coupling the transformer will be coupled directly to the terminals of the battery, regardless of them being negative. As the Switch is oscillating back and forth one terminal will always be positive with regards to the other terminal. When the pulsing is operational charging should take place. This will involve gassing within the battery. Any unwanted live BEMF or transient spark could cause the battery to ignite internally and explode. Anyone in the close vicinity of this explosion is likely to suffer acid burns, even loss of sight.

This is a safety warning to all those thinking of following incorrect advice to not decouple your transformers with capacitors or series chokes and capacitors. BE WARNED.

Maybe I shall resurrect my Switch and put it on youtube - working. I'll have to think long and hard about that after today events.

Regards

Rob,

I understand that the caps are there to soak up any transient spike when the TS switches sides, to prevent an explosion.

Can you share the specs or part number of the pulse transformer?

Since we're all buddies now, we'd love to see what you've got!


John K.

[ourbobby]

TS Coupling Caution

OK boys, can we take a chill pill and start again?

If Rob has something to share on his TS replications and believes he has it and wants to share his findings, I wanna hear it.


John K.

Thanks for the comment John. However, I only have one further comment at this stage. This is regarding low capacitor coupling for the ac output from a working TS.

The output should be a pulse transformer, most of these are designed for specific applications. Experimenters tend to use whats under the bench. This sets the stage for a very dangerous scenario. Without some coupling the transformer will be coupled directly to the terminals of the battery, regardless of them being negative. As the Switch is oscillating back and forth one terminal will always be positive with regards to the other terminal. When the pulsing is operational charging should take place. This will involve gassing within the battery. Any unwanted live BEMF or transient spark could cause the battery to ignite internally and explode. Anyone in the close vicinity of this explosion is likely to suffer acid burns, even loss of sight.

This is a safety warning to all those thinking of following incorrect advice to not decouple your transformers with capacitors or series chokes and capacitors. BE WARNED.

Maybe I shall resurrect my Switch and put it on youtube - working. I'll have to think long and hard about that after today events.

Regards

[John_K]

OK boys, can we take a chill pill and start again?

If Rob has something to share on his TS replications and believes he has it and wants to share his findings, I wanna hear it.


John K.

[admin]

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Thank you for choosing to resolve this debate on your own:

I shall not bother with this thread again

[Matthew Jones]

Well I am not going to get into a pissing contest with a tosser like you. I think that you think you own this thread. And, as soon as your dominance is challenged "you spit your dummy". You have not even paid attention to the constraints of Electronics 101. You are too clever. Cleverer than Eike Mueller and John Bedini. You are so full of it "BUD", you must be always smiling you are so far up yourself.

I still think you have not understood how this works, and, I am not going to tell you. Forums seem to attract special people.

Now you try and have a nice day again. I shall not bother with this thread again, I can imagine that in another year's time you will still be struggling with this issue, no matter what anyone says. Its called ignorance BUD.

There are two constants in this universe. One is Hydrogen. The other is stupidity, disguised as reasonable thought based on wrong sequential actions.

I think you are rude and supercilious. That makes you a potential cyber bully.
Thus you become self defeating. New ideas can always be challenging. It not a matter of TESTING YOU. This thread is about the so called Tesla Switch. You should learn that first. And, because someone else can get this going doesn't mean that they have to suck up to you. Indeed, they should keep well clear.

Regards

All I got to say is, Where is yours? And where is your proof? And where is your credentials? You come in here and lie and expect no one to confront you. Expect people to accept insults when you get caught. Please, grow up.

Well well see...

Matt

[ourbobby]

So you better figure your place in this gig, before you come in here and spew your misinformation, nonsense and BS. We have been through this too many times with people like you. Go on and test me..

Matt

Well I am not going to get into a pissing contest with a tosser like you. I think that you think you own this thread. And, as soon as your dominance is challenged "you spit your dummy". You have not even paid attention to the constraints of Electronics 101. You are too clever. Cleverer than Eike Mueller and John Bedini. You are so full of it "BUD", you must be always smiling you are so far up yourself.

I still think you have not understood how this works, and, I am not going to tell you. Forums seem to attract special people.

Now you try and have a nice day again. I shall not bother with this thread again, I can imagine that in another year's time you will still be struggling with this issue, no matter what anyone says. Its called ignorance BUD.

There are two constants in this universe. One is Hydrogen. The other is stupidity, disguised as reasonable thought based on wrong sequential actions.

I think you are rude and supercilious. That makes you a potential cyber bully.
Thus you become self defeating. New ideas can always be challenging. It not a matter of TESTING YOU. This thread is about the so called Tesla Switch. You should learn that first. And, because someone else can get this going doesn't mean that they have to suck up to you. Indeed, they should keep well clear.

Regards

[Groundloop]

here are the above circuits and their details in large image...
the following file also include the hex file for programming the ic...
kindly download from the link


Free File Hosting & Video Downloads, Free File Sharing, Online Friends Network - Ziddu

this is a winzip file

There is no hex file for programming the IC. The attached files in the zip file
is design files for the electronic CAD program. I did use EAGLE from CadSoft Online: EAGLE Layout Editor
The IC is an oscillator IC. It does not need to be programmed.

Groundloop.

[Matthew Jones]

@Matt,

Hey Matt,....
I was thinking of using the #18 wire to rewind 2 or 3 of the 120v/24v 200VA transformers I have and run them in parallel. I might be able to re-use the wire from the secondary 24v winding. (Don't know the guage at the moment as my digital vernier died. If I were to guess I would say it might be a #15 or #16).
I was wondering if you can give me an idea of winding lengths and number of strands of #18 to use in these 200VA E-cores for 14.5V output?

That would depend on the size of the core I am not sure of its size so.... Good thing to start with is to make the output winding 1/3 longer than the input winding. In a perfect world it should work that you have a 12vac current running on the 2 primaries and with 1/3 more wire you'll end up with 18 volt. But in reality you'll have something like 17.2 especially if you hand winding. Then you can go back and clip a few feet off until you hit your desired voltage.
Depending on the open space in the core you might want to use 2 strands of 18. 1 may be enough. Shoot for less than 1 Ohm of resistance somewhere like .1 or lower is better.

You gotta understand too small of a number of turns you won't hit desired voltage but if you have a good number of turns and low resistance you'll get what you want.

I also want to try a transformer between the positive battery terminals to see how that works as it would only require a single primary. JB showed a load between the positives on his 3 battery switch concept drawings and also in the scalar charger. Have you tried running a transformer between the positives?

Nope I haven't tried it. JB also said the ground side was less effected by the C20 rating than the positive side. Your call I think it will work either way.

I have a question about using an SSR for a cap dump. Would a 24v zener (and series resistor to limit current) between positive of a cap and the positive input of the ssr with the negative of the SSR trigger hooked to the negative of the cap work for triggering the SSR? If so, would I hook up the cap negative to the positive of the relay output with the negative of the relay output connected to the negative terminal of the charge battery with the cap positive hooked directly to the charge battery positive terminal?

Here is a cap dump solution for ya. Change the zenier to what you want

But what are you driving the switch's with? An IC. Use it to dump.
Run the switching till the cap are at the capacity then dump.

Just a word of advice look at the schematic closely.
ON your transformer wire you have 2 points (Not counting the output) to pay attention too. The start and the finish.
Look at the left bank of batteries. The power goes into the start of the winding and come out of the finish.
Look at the right bank of batteries. The power goes into the finish winding and comes out of the start.
If you run both of them into the start and out of the finish you'll cook those switch's from inrush currents

Don't even turn the thing on until you have diodes in place for protection.

Run at a high speed (600 to 800 hz) at first until you get comfortable with your system.

Make a checklist for connection and triple check it.

The advice is not to make you look bad its to try to save you some money. Lord know I wish someone would have told me.

You need anything hollar.

Matt

[Groundloop]

this is the original switch which was design by john bedini and it powers 5v nicd batters providing a load plus the 4 five volts nicd batteries never get discharged,,,,,

kindly have a look and give me your views...
thanks

This was my attempt to replicate the Bedini Tesla switch. I did try to use the same
components as far as I was able to get hold of them. I did draw up the circuit drawing
and did also design the PCB. I tested the circuit on three types of batteries, first test
was with 9 volt NiCad. Second test was with 4,8 volt NiCad packs. Last test was
with 12 volt lead acid batteries. None of the tests did show me any OU or other
free energy behavior with the circuit. Maybe I did something wrong, I do not know.
I hope others are having better results with this circuit that I did.

Groundloop.

[hherby]

Replicating your TS setup with SSR's

@Matt,

Hey Matt,
Received my order of SSR's (60v 60Amp DC) http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/d_06d.pdf to try replicating your setup.

I priced out #6 square wire from my usual supplier. They only sell that kind of wire in large 100+kg reels which would have costed around $1800. I have an unused 11lb spool of #18 wire I can use for now.

I was thinking of using the #18 wire to rewind 2 or 3 of the 120v/24v 200VA transformers I have and run them in parallel. I might be able to re-use the wire from the secondary 24v winding. (Don't know the guage at the moment as my digital vernier died. If I were to guess I would say it might be a #15 or #16).

I was wondering if you can give me an idea of winding lengths and number of strands of #18 to use in these 200VA E-cores for 14.5V output?

I also want to try a transformer between the positive battery terminals to see how that works as it would only require a single primary. JB showed a load between the positives on his 3 battery switch concept drawings and also in the scalar charger. Have you tried running a transformer between the positives?

I have a question about using an SSR for a cap dump. Would a 24v zener (and series resistor to limit current) between positive of a cap and the positive input of the ssr with the negative of the SSR trigger hooked to the negative of the cap work for triggering the SSR? If so, would I hook up the cap negative to the positive of the relay output with the negative of the relay output connected to the negative terminal of the charge battery with the cap positive hooked directly to the charge battery positive terminal?

I could also use one of these transformers as is by using the 24v secondary as the primary and should get around 60v out of the 120v primary to charge a cap through a bridge.


Thanks Matt.

Alex

[citfta]

To ourbobby

You're funny.

Edit: I want to make sure that others reading this thread do not make the mistake of thinking that you know what you are talking about:

A lot of us on this forum have worked with Matt for well over a year on the TS. Even John B. has great respect for the work Matt has done. Your sure look silly coming in here and claiming Matt doesn't know what he is doing. He has had more success with several different versions of the TS than anyone else. Most of the designs are entirely his own. After you have learned to have some respect for the abilities of others you can come back and apologize to Matt.

Carroll