The bistander thread

[bistander]

When all of this started way back when, I said that the attraction of the rotor magnet to the coil core as it approached was equal to the attraction of the coil core to the rotor magnet as the magnet moved away but that there was a moment in time when the two were perfectly aligned. A moment of MAXIMUM attraction. It requires motor TORQUE to move the magnet from this position. That is cogging. So The magnetic attraction at that point in time is responsible for or CAUSES cogging exactly as I have said.

You said that position did not exist. That was incorrect. False, Untrue. A lie.

No, I did not say the position did not exist, but rather that at that position (TDC) there was no resistance to rotation (torque). The graph validates that.

Point 1. There is no such thing as “cogging torque.” Cogging doesn’t cause torque. Cogging is caused because of the attraction of the magnet to the core of the coil. It exists whether you like it or not. Spin the rotor by hand and you will see it. Without a motor in place (or your hand. And I have to say quibbling that your hand can do the same thing as a motor is rather juvenile of you) the ONLY force present is the attraction of every single coil core to every single rotor magnet. It is an axial attraction and exists when there is no movement of the rotor AT ALL. Cogging ONLY occurs when you use TORQUE to move the magnet from that position of alignment.

Bingo. Cogging torque is felt only when you move from that Stable Detent Position (TDC), like the graph shows.

Point 2. In order to spin the rotor you must PROVIDE torque to overcome, among other things, that magnetic attraction. Either spin it by hand or use a motor. Providing the torque to get the motor up to speed costs you amps and voltage to the motor measured in watts of power. Torque is less at operating speed, but you must still provide it.

I agree,

Point 3. And I believe HERE is where our major disagreement lies. My contention is that a rotor spinning AT SPEED with no coils in place draws far fewer watts of power and requires less torque than does a motor spinning a rotor with 12 coils in place.

If you mean cores where you have typed coils, I agree.

And I contend that magnetic neutralization reduces the needed power and needed torque significantly.

I disagree.

I have seen it on my big machine and I posted a video of the machine running at speed and adding a couple coils. It drew more amps and slowed the motor. I provided the 7th grade science experiment and a more recent video to show that it is true. So YOU could see for yourself. You lied about doing the 7th grade science experiment and said YOUR experiment was better.

I lied about nothing. I built a fixture and conducted experiments both handheld magnet and fixed magnet. This simulated what you had described back then. I posted pictures of the apparatus and talked about my results. I had it up for 2 or 3 months and got no feedback from you, just some crap from BM about me not holding ridiculous tolerances. So eventually I disassembled it. There are no lies here, from me.

You can quote all the textbooks and charts and graphs you want. I will go with what I see on the bench and my volt and amp meters show me. I have gotten my machine up to speed, added coils and watched it slow down and amp draw go up. Then I have implemented magnetic neutralization and watched it speed back up and the voltage and amp draw go DOWN.

What have you shown us? Charts and graphs and words. Do the experiment and prove I am wrong on the bench or just shut up.

I did the experiment and demonstrated what I said was correct. The record exists back in this thread.

Edit: And by the way, I am NOT the one who developed this idea of offsetting magnets for generator coils! A patent was issued for this a LONG time ago and I have showed that patent in the past. It works. Period.

Yes, I recall that. I don't think that contains any claim or evidence to support your theory. If you can reference a particular passage from it that supports axial force from magnetic attraction causing a torque load, please post the quote.

For kicks, I googled "magnetic neutralization". About the only thing to surface remotely related was degaussing battleships.
bi

[Turion]

So you took some PICTURES of something you built. Where is the video of it running showing that it does what you say it does? Did you make one? NO? Why not.

I posted a video of the 7th grade Science experiment. You know, the one I asked you to replicate but you didn't. Are you saying we don't see the motor speed up when the opposition magnet is aligned with the coil (and its core)? REALLY? I have three people who have replicated this since I posted the video and they all see the same thing I saw. Sorry dude.

[bistander]

So you took some PICTURES of something you built. Where is the video of it running showing that it does what you say it does? Did you make one? NO? Why not.

Where's the video of your 1800-2000W out / less than 300W in? Did you make one? NO? Why not?

I was ready, willing and waiting for months. But you were nowhere to be found.

I posted a video of the 7th grade Science experiment. You know, the one I asked you to replicate but you didn't. Are you saying we don't see the motor speed up when the opposition magnet is aligned with the coil (and its core)? REALLY? I have three people who have replicated this since I posted the video and they all see the same thing I saw. Sorry dude.

No, actually I can't tell speed up on the video. It appears to change speed. And where is meter reading for power. You didn't adjust and tune to your optimum "neutralization" setting, let it stabilize and conduct the experiment at constant speed, like I was able to do. You had a motor coil on the same rotor as well as the control reed switch. Either or both could interfere in unknown ways. Also the fact that you needed to reverse polarity when "neutralizing" the motor coil and can't explain exactly why gives a clue that you really have no idea what's going on and reasons why. It is a big leap of imagination to think that proves anything. I think my version was much superior on isolation of the effect we were studying and controlling the variables in a precise and repeatable process..
bi

[BroMikey]

For kicks, I googled "magnetic neutralization". About the only thing to surface remotely related was degaussing battleships.
bi

See "magnetic shielding" for various forms of redirecting flux also "cancellation" there is an endless supply of test data for a true researcher. I guess you can't find it which shows how slothful your methods are and how flawed your abilities

[BroMikey]

Way over your head bi

[BroMikey]

Almost

[Turion]

bi,

I will leave you to your own little thread to rant and rave. I have work to do elsewhere. Your opinions have never really mattered to me. I have just always felt bad that you might be dissuading others from exploring these avenues. But I have no time to worry about that anymore. Too much to do. If I have more to share I will do so on bro’s thread.

[bistander]

bi,

I will leave you to your own little thread to rant and rave. I have work to do elsewhere. Your opinions have never really mattered to me. I have just always felt bad that you might be dissuading others from exploring these avenues. But I have no time to worry about that anymore. Too much to do. If I have more to share I will do so on bro’s thread.

I always tried to show readers and replicators the way to fact and truth and point out the mistakes and falsehoods which so often get posted. Dissuade, no. Encourage to think and reason, not blindly follow.

A few posts ago you brought up a couple of interesting items. One was if there would be cogging without maximum attraction at TDC. And then the case of the magnet on a flat steel plate and the effort to move it laterally. Here's a twist. Consider the magnet suspended 0.060 inch above the large flat steel plate. So there is a constant air gap between the magnet and steel plate. Now, I contend there is only a perpendicular force (of attraction between the magnet and plate). It would require very little lateral force to move the magnet. There would be no force component from magnetic attraction available to hinder lateral motion. All non perpendicular magnetic attraction forces would be offset by equal and opposite force due to the 360° symmetry of the magnet and plate. If I'm correct, would that not disprove your contention that axial force from magnetic attraction at TDC can load the motor?

LIke the example I mentioned before of having the steel plate coated with a sheet of smooth slippery ice. I don't recall a response from you about that. Interesting how you neglect to respond to examples which can have results that contradict you.
Speaking of threads, why don't you have a dedicated thread for your motor generator? A 1.5kW Free Energy device is certainly worthy.
bi

[Turion]

Consider the magnet suspended 0.060 inch above the large flat steel plate. So there is a constant air gap between the magnet and steel plate. Now, I contend there is only a perpendicular force (of attraction between the magnet and plate). It would require very little lateral force to move the magnet. There would be no force component from magnetic attraction available to hinder lateral motion. All non perpendicular magnetic attraction forces would be offset by equal and opposite force due to the 360° symmetry of the magnet and plate. If I'm correct, would that not disprove your contention that axial force from magnetic attraction at TDC can load the motor?

And what happens when the magnet gets to the end of the plate and you try to move it over empty space? This is what happens when you move the rotor magnet away from alignment with the core material. Or put a series of small plates on the table top with air gaps between them and attempt to move your magnet over them. This is what happens when you have actual coils on a machine. How much does your "air gap" help you in the REAL WORLD?

Speaking of threads, why don't you have a dedicated thread for your motor generator? A 1.5kW Free Energy device is certainly worthy.

I started a thread just for my setup called "Your basic free energy device." I got tired of you and your paid disinformation specialists, so I had it closed and locked.

I have taken a complete series of videos of building this generator step by step, with information about all the component parts, where to get some of them cheaply, and how to assemble the machine. Once I have figured out this coil issue and have had the machine tested at the independent lab, I will eventually post all those videos (18 so far) on a thread here. There will probably be over 20 videos by then, including the ones of verified inputs and outputs both by myself and the independent lab. All the videos are currently on my YouTube channel, but are listed as "private".

I neglect to respond? LOL It's always the same tired crap with you. You don't get it and never will, or you DO get it and are doing your best to obfuscate. Either way, it's a waste of my time.

[bistander]

And what happens when the magnet gets to the end of the plate and you try to move it over empty space? This is what happens when you move the rotor magnet away from alignment with the core material. Or put a series of small plates on the table top with air gaps between them and attempt to move your magnet over them. This is what happens when you have actual coils on a machine. How much does your "air gap" help you in the REAL WORLD?
I started a thread just for my setup called "Your basic free energy device." I got tired of you and your paid disinformation specialists, so I had it closed and locked.

I have taken a complete series of videos of building this generator step by step, with information about all the component parts, where to get some of them cheaply, and how to assemble the machine. Once I have figured out this coil issue and have had the machine tested at the independent lab, I will eventually post all those videos (18 so far) on a thread here. There will probably be over 20 videos by then, including the ones of verified inputs and outputs both by myself and the independent lab. All the videos are currently on my YouTube channel, but are listed as "private".

I neglect to respond? LOL It's always the same tired crap with you. You don't get it and never will, or you DO get it and are doing your best to obfuscate. Either way, it's a waste of my time.

How much does your "air gap" help you in the REAL WORLD?

Without it, you'd be stuck.
c'ya,
bi

[BroMikey]

bi,

I have just always felt bad that you might be dissuading others from exploring these avenues.

But I have no time to worry about that anymore. Too much to do.

Oh don't worry it's bi-genders lapdogs with a made up mind before they all see the bench results, you know the drill "Polly want a cracker"? parrots. The university science can do no wrong, see what I'm sayin? The gender challenged might snap out and see what you've shown? NAW

[Turion]

Without it, I'd be stuck. What a pathetic answer. As usual, you made some stupid remark and totally avoided the question. The question. What a surprise!

"And what happens when the magnet gets to the end of the plate and you try to move it over empty space? This is what happens when you move the rotor magnet away from alignment with the core material. Or put a series of small plates on the table top with air gaps between them and attempt to move your magnet over them. This is what happens when you have actual coils on a machine. How much does your "air gap" help you in the REAL WORLD?"

[bistander]

Without it, I'd be stuck. What a pathetic answer. As usual, you made some stupid remark and totally avoided the question. The question. What a surprise!

"And what happens when the magnet gets to the end of the plate and you try to move it over empty space? This is what happens when you move the rotor magnet away from alignment with the core material. Or put a series of small plates on the table top with air gaps between them and attempt to move your magnet over them. This is what happens when you have actual coils on a machine. How much does your "air gap" help you in the REAL WORLD?"

OK. I'll answer it if you tell me what it has to do with being at TDC, which is the point of the discussion, isn't it? Your contention that magnetic attraction at TDC loads the prime mover is the point. It is false and the example of the magnet suspended over a large flat steel plate (away from the edge or any discontinuity) is a good analogy. This isolates the net force to only perpendicular which is analogous to the maximum attraction at TDC if you think not, why did you bring up the example of a magnet on the steel table (or plate) and the force to move it laterally?
bi

[BroMikey]

OK. I'll answer ....

magnetic attraction at TDC loads the prime mover is the point. It is false

This isolates the net force to only perpendicular which is analogous

What kind of a statement is that? Have you lost all sense of balance? He's wiggin out Dave

[Turion]

I NEVER said "the magnetic force loads the prime mover at TDC." To claim I did is an outright lie. I have asked several times now for you to show me where I said that. You can't, and we both know it. It's a LIE. Plain and simple. Not your first either. This is you putting YOUR words in my mouth. I spit them out. They are nasty.

I have said that when the rotor magnet is aligned to the core at TDC (a “moment in time” you originally denied even happens, remember?) there is a moment of maximum magnetic attraction that causes cogging. WITHOUT THIS MOMENT IN TIME COGGING WOULDN'T EXIST.

"This cogging occurs the INSTANT the rotor magnet is moved away from TDC. (THAT MOMENT IN TIME) The torque to move the rotor from this “locking position” is generated by the prime mover, AT COST. Your report says the exact same thing. Any displacement of the rotor from this position (alignment of magnet to coil core) results in cogging torque which attempts to re-align the rotor to this position.

No matter HOW many times you try to convince me or the world I said something else, it isn’t going to work. You are pathetic. What’s the matter, do you get fined when you make a mistake so you either ignore it or continue to claim you are right? Why don’t you get a REAL job. This paid shill gig is making you look like a fool.