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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • @Erfinder
    Please start a thread man! I want to discuss more about your view of magnetism so that I can expand my horizons. Under the banner that you raise, I will share my findings if that's cool with you. The thread should be dedicated magnetism as you see it. I will follow your lead! Post that "magnetic" bearing! I can design a new rig to accommodate it.
    I started a new thread labelled Cause and effect in Electro-magnetic systems. I hope everyone will continue the related discussion there and let the work here continue on topic.

    AC

    Comment


    • Patent 30378 technical study (1902)

      Hi all,

      Apart from the 1908 Figuera patent there is another Figuera patent (No. 30378 dated in 1902) about a motionless electrical generator: Patent 30378. Some weeks ago a user posted a technical study of the windings of this patent but it passed almost unnoticed. This 1902 device is even simpler to replicate thant the 1908 generator. Figuera appeared in the newspapers in 1902 when he was using this generator to produce 20 HP. Therefore we know that he got high energy gains with this generator. Later, Figuera changed his design after selling this patent to a banker union.

      A deep study about this patent was also done by an forum user. You can find his technical study in the next link, which is really worthwhile to read it:

      Figuera 1902 patent No. 30278 technical study

      Note: The induced winding is denoted by (c) while the inducer electromagnets are (a) and (b)




      As conclusion: "BECAUSE THE INTERIOR WINDINGS (b) ARE TOTALLY ENCLOSED BY THE INDUCED WIDING (c) THE INDUCED MAGNETIC FIELD WILL ENTER AND LEAVE THE TURNS OF THE INTERIOR WINDING (b) INDUCING A ZERO NET VOLTAGE, WHICH RESULTS IN A CANCELLATION OF THE EFFECTS OF THE LENZíS LAW. IN OTHER WORDS, THE LOAD CURRENT FLOWING IN THE c-WINDING IS NOT REFLECTED BACK TO THE b-WINDING."


      Regarding the methods to minimize the effect of Lenz's law, one can see that Figuera used two method: the method of in the 1902 patent and the method in the 1908 patent. If you draw the magnetic flowpath in the 1902 generator, it can be noted that the flow of the induced coil (external) enters and leaves the inducer coil (internal). Because the inducer coil is symmetrically placed at 90 degrees inside the induced, the flow from the induced coil will enter and leave the inducer coil. If the flow enters and leaves the coil no voltage will be induced in it. Notice that it is not enough to placed those coils at 90 degrees but also there must be symmetry. This is because if there is no symmetry the balance of magnetic flux entering is not necessarily equal to the magnetic flux coming out.

      According to this user, the method of 1908 is different. While one coil induces another coil deviates the induced magnetic flux so that this flux does not oppose to the coil which is inducing.

      Comment


      • 1.
        Pondering on how to build that transformer above I wonder if we can use soft annealled black iron wire in order to wind 4 separate segments (see green marking in post above) on a jig. The iron oxide might be a good reasonable insulator in order to prevent excessive eddy currents.

        After assembling those segments and fixing the form by epoxy we could cut out the gaps for the induced winding.
        Tha idea originates basically from ribbon wound transformers (cores and copper coils)


        2.
        Alternatively: does anybody know a good source for transformer core ribbon?

        3.
        Those induced wirings might be performed by copper or aluminum strip along an insulating layer.
        It can be done with double layer in order to test different bifilar setups. The layer winding gets interwinding capacitance high! Will this be an disadvantage?

        4.
        I have plenty of 9V wall chargers available. Will it possible to use those windings and connect them 8x in parallel? I f yeas I could manufacture the "wired" (see above) core fitting to those transformer coils.

        5.
        Are there more ideas available in how to get an easy proof of concept?
        John Stone
        Last edited by JohnStone; 09-14-2013, 06:06 PM.
        Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

        Comment


        • Microwave "E" core.

          Hi John,

          The easiest way to build this core is to use a microwave transformer. Just take the "E" core and split the layers and then stack them 2 facing each others then the next layer, rotate 90 degrees and so on, you can even cut the straight keeper to fit the empty spaces in the center. then you cut the center cross with a reciprocating saw giving you about a 1/8" air gap. you need to insulate the layers and you should be fine for some crude tests but it might just work.

          Take care,

          Michel

          P.S.:Tesla was promoting the soft annealed black iron wire and if it was rusted, even better.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

          Comment


          • "Material: low carbon steel wire Q195."

            Is that pure iron or not ?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
              "Material: low carbon steel wire Q195."

              Is that pure iron or not ?
              Not pure iron but low C see
              JS
              Last edited by JohnStone; 09-15-2013, 11:29 AM.
              Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michelinho View Post
                Hi John,

                The easiest way to build this core is to use a microwave transformer. Just take the "E" core and split the layers and then stack them 2 facing each others then the next layer, rotate 90 degrees and so on, you can even cut the straight keeper to fit the empty spaces in the center. then you cut the center cross with a reciprocating saw giving you about a 1/8" air gap. you need to insulate the layers and you should be fine for some crude tests but it might just work.

                Take care,

                Michel

                P.S.:Tesla was promoting the soft annealed black iron wire and if it was rusted, even better.
                Thanks for hints. Pondering on it. My transformer laminates are glued together. Not easy to separate!
                Cheers
                John
                Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                Comment


                • Hello everybody
                  Some hep needed, if anyone is kind to answer.
                  I do not have means to exactly replicate the patents but I made a setup for experimentation.
                  Made it with recycled stuff from junk.

                  Wish I had an oscope, because the first measurements are unreliable (and crazy)
                  Based in a 8 segments DC motor commutator run by a small dc motor

                  The idea was to study if feeding the inductor with a variable DC current, there is Lenz,
                  or in other words a kind of square pulse over the 0V line. (see the setup layout)
                  The resistances are fixed at the back of commutator in a sequence: Low-High-Low-High in one cycle.(low=2 Ohm.)

                  The motor and the central inductor L3 are powered with different power supplies.
                  The carbon brushes are a bit narrower than comm. segments.

                  I have tested with 100, 1K, 10K, 100K resistances
                  The voltage at the electrolytic cap goes crazy (always same inductive load) I guess that due to different freq.from standard)
                  The Amps at input says 200mA at 12V (at R=10K)

                  From R=1K lots of sparks at comm. and the neon lits red, with 100K looots of sparks and I can see purple light.
                  A non gutted CFL parallel to the neon, flashes.
                  With a resistive load everything goes down.

                  My questions for the experts (Mr. John Stone ? ):

                  - does the neon lights because of the sparks or from L3 BEMF ?
                  - Is there a simple way to stabilize the V at output ?
                  - Is the sharp change of R causing a collapse bellow 0Volts in L3 and therefore a kick back ?
                  -Is the current induced in L1.L2 AC (at a freq. related to RPM) or type triangular -saw tooth? (theoretically)


                  in the meantime I am showing this, as it may be of inspiration for someone

                  cheers
                  Alvaro
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by interdesign21; 09-15-2013, 06:16 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Interdesign21: I like your setup. In the Figuera patent he says you have to avoid sparks by having 2 connections and always make before break.
                    Because you got sparks it means you got radiant energy which is why your ne2's lit up.(BEMF also known as CEMF)
                    Blue means very high voltages.
                    If the ne 2 lights up on one side it is pulsed dc. The lit side is negative.
                    If both sides of the ne2 are lit then you have pulsed AC or regular AC.
                    Anyway, keep experimenting. All reports are good science.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by a.king21 View Post
                      Interdesign21: I like your setup. In the Figuera patent he says you have to avoid sparks by having 2 connections and always make before break.
                      Because you got sparks it means you got radiant energy which is why your ne2's lit up.(BEMF also known as CEMF)
                      Blue means very high voltages.
                      If the ne 2 lights up on one side it is pulsed dc. The lit side is negative.
                      If both sides of the ne2 are lit then you have pulsed AC or regular AC.
                      Anyway, keep experimenting. All reports are good science.
                      Thanks a.king21
                      the brushes are make before break and the sparks appear when they quit a low R segment and enter High R.
                      The two sides of neon always lights, so I suppose to be feeding the center coil with AC. ???
                      Could I use this output with another collector coil instead the neon ???

                      too many questions Iīm afraid
                      Alvaro

                      Comment


                      • Interdesign21: In the Figuera patent it is stated that you can get extra energy by replacing the core with a coil or a number of coils. The core or inner coils should only protrude half way into the primary coils. You can use the inner coils to power the device according to the patent. Now that would be something to see.
                        I've tested this inner coil advice and it works. I replaced the core of a solenoid with a coil and it produced electricity.
                        Looking forward to your results.

                        Comment


                        • @a.king21

                          I read your observations
                          Remember that in my set up I have one central coil (primary) and two induced coils, one at each side. In the Figuera 1908 setup, it is inverse, the two at the ends are the inducing, and the one at center is the induced, because its configuration is designed to grow and decrease the flux alternatively at both ends of the device.
                          The concept in my exploration, is sightly different, based in the cyclical change of resistance at the input, and using both sides of the inducing or primary coil.

                          One coil inside the other replacing the core, would be a kind of air core transformer. . . interesting

                          cheers
                          Alvaro

                          Comment


                          • I didn't look at your schematic initially, just the photo of your build.
                            Well it's certainly interesting.
                            It's obvious by following the patents that Figuera did not disclose everything. Maybe your version is closer to the mark.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by interdesign21 View Post
                              Hello everybody
                              Some hep needed, if anyone is kind to answer.
                              I do not have means to exactly replicate the patents but I made a setup for experimentation.
                              Made it with recycled stuff from junk.

                              Wish I had an oscope, because the first measurements are unreliable (and crazy)
                              Based in a 8 segments DC motor commutator run by a small dc motor

                              The idea was to study if feeding the inductor with a variable DC current, there is Lenz,
                              or in other words a kind of square pulse over the 0V line. (see the setup layout)
                              The resistances are fixed at the back of commutator in a sequence: Low-High-Low-High in one cycle.(low=2 Ohm.)

                              The motor and the central inductor L3 are powered with different power supplies.
                              The carbon brushes are a bit narrower than comm. segments.

                              I have tested with 100, 1K, 10K, 100K resistances
                              The voltage at the electrolytic cap goes crazy (always same inductive load) I guess that due to different freq.from standard)
                              The Amps at input says 200mA at 12V (at R=10K)

                              From R=1K lots of sparks at comm. and the neon lits red, with 100K looots of sparks and I can see purple light.
                              A non gutted CFL parallel to the neon, flashes.
                              With a resistive load everything goes down.

                              My questions for the experts (Mr. John Stone ? ):

                              - does the neon lights because of the sparks or from L3 BEMF ?
                              - Is there a simple way to stabilize the V at output ?
                              - Is the sharp change of R causing a collapse bellow 0Volts in L3 and therefore a kick back ?
                              -Is the current induced in L1.L2 AC (at a freq. related to RPM) or type triangular -saw tooth? (theoretically)


                              in the meantime I am showing this, as it may be of inspiration for someone

                              cheers
                              Alvaro
                              Hi Alvaro

                              Good setup, and just a thought - I would be tempted to remove the neon and D2 D3 and replace with a small cap, and also remove C1, and see what that does to the output. You could do a timing run over so many second to compare before and after.

                              Regards

                              John
                              Last edited by john_g; 09-16-2013, 12:58 PM.

                              Comment


                              • thanks for the suggestion John
                                Note that my doubts originate in the way the diodes D2 andD3 are oriented, contrary to direction of theoretic current flow
                                It reminds me the same as seen in the Ufopolitics boost converter
                                nevertheless I`ll try with a cap (non polarized?)
                                cheers
                                Alvaro

                                Comment

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