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  • Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    I am going to agree with the skeptics here and say that I don,t think that we have been shown proof of over unity yet.
    But when are you going to see the writing on the wall?
    For those of us that have been following along and have built test motors know that when he gets the output from the motor (prime mover) connected he will get a significant output from that alone, while the input currant will drop as well under load.
    And then as he mentioned also the benefits of pulsing the input.
    Keep in mind that this was only a 4hp motor!
    The benefits of the UFO/Tesla motor, I believe will many fold.
    Where do I sign for enlistment into the platoon?
    Lol-where do i sign up.
    You know,i was all for this to work along with every one else.
    And then came the big anouncment from UFO-Quote:We have overunity galor.
    I was pumped to think that some one had finaly done it-but then i seen the first video which showed nothing but run battery voltage???

    Then the second video-which showed input watts,but no output watts.

    UFO then said to me and others-please be patient,as i havnt finished the setup yet.
    So how dose one come to the belief that they have overunity if they havnt finished the device?

    And then you get others watching the video saying-yep that's overunity for sure???
    So how did they come to this conclusion with the tests that have been shown so far?

    UFO-keeps on avoiding a simple watts in to watts out test? and seems to be more concerned about what a gas powered generator would do if the governor is disconected?What has that got to do with proving your overunity device as claimed?.

    There is only one reason some one would keep delaying a watts in to watts out test to prove there claim of overunity.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lester444 View Post
      Tinmanpower,

      I don't know where you got your information but I assure you what I wrote above is correct. Read for your self here:
      Allegro MicroSystems - Search Results

      Incandescent light bulb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <----Scroll down to sub-topic "Current and Resistance"

      No need to discuss further.

      Lester444
      You need to get your head out of the book's,and join the real world lester444
      Or would you like me to make a video to show you that the amps will rise with the voltage when applied to an incandecant bulb?
      Think about what your saying.
      Lets say we had an incandecant bulb that was running on 12 volts at 1 amp-12 watts.
      Now we drop the voltage to 6 volt's-and you say the amp draw will go up?-wrong,the amps will go down with the voltage.

      Yes,the hotter the element become's-the higher the resistance accross that element-but you forgot one thing-heat energy also go's up right along with the resistance.

      So i stand by my claim-amp's will drop when the voltage is droped accross an incandecant bulb-or do i have to make that video to show you?

      Comment


      • If you have 12 watt light, with 12 v and 1amp.

        If you lower the voltage, amps will go up if there is a source to draw from, to give same 12 watts.
        if you lower the volts, watts out will go down if there is no source to provide extra current,why would amps not stay the same, or decrease? therefore less then 12 watts, and light dims.

        So like always, it depends. Like everyone has been saying, we need a few more measurements, or am I wrong, and if I am I apoligize, but please tell me why?

        Since the beginning, i have been amazed that lights are being lite, across diodes that should be blocking current. My research will continue into this amazing effect, no matter if over unity or not. So thanks for that UFO, no matter what else. I think the radiant generator is a whole other topic.

        If I am wrong in what I said above, would someone explain why.

        Also, since I am going to build this, come hell or high water, I have a more technical question regarding the build.

        UFO, if two parameters, rpm and torque, must not change or no volts out, Why were lights on in your last video, rmp was only 2400, or I missed something, sorry, just trying to understand.
        Last edited by machinealive; 12-15-2012, 06:11 PM. Reason: fixed something

        Comment


        • Before UFO mentioned about the stage lights blowing fuses or breakers I had already been thinking these '500 watt' lights likely draw more than 500 watts. But having read his past experience with them I will bet they draw considerably more than 500 watts. I could go into the reasons for this but don't want to add more clutter here. I know some I've seen use transformers in them and may well consume 800 watts or more just to get 500 watts out. And I'm guessing those bulbs actually use more than that. I realize that's quite a bit of speculation but it's supported by the readings we saw as well as UFO's past experience with those lights. The bottom line here is I think his setup was putting out more power than it was using. I'm sure we will soon have more proof of this.
          There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tinmanpower View Post
            Lol-where do i sign up.
            You know,i was all for this to work along with every one else.
            And then came the big anouncment from UFO-Quote:We have overunity galor.
            I was pumped to think that some one had finaly done it-but then i seen the first video which showed nothing but run battery voltage???

            Then the second video-which showed input watts,but no output watts.

            UFO then said to me and others-please be patient,as i havnt finished the setup yet.
            So how dose one come to the belief that they have overunity if they havnt finished the device?

            And then you get others watching the video saying-yep that's overunity for sure???
            So how did they come to this conclusion with the tests that have been shown so far?

            UFO-keeps on avoiding a simple watts in to watts out test? and seems to be more concerned about what a gas powered generator would do if the governor is disconected?What has that got to do with proving your overunity device as claimed?.

            There is only one reason some one would keep delaying a watts in to watts out test to prove there claim of overunity.
            I followed the story partially so maybe i missed something but that is exactly what i see happening also! People claiming OU and ordering stuff, maybe it's because it's almost 21-12-12? I don't think we will see proof before that date and UFO has to go to his own planet

            Comment


            • You GO tinman
              You GO John
              In my home town that means youre awesome, keep it up!
              as well as M.A. - bolt1 and any others...


              U.P. I was amongst the first to get the little toy up and running, Ive been rooting for you ever since. Im lazy though, nore do I have the patience for a large build this makes me a waiter/watcher LOL
              Its nice to see your patience and character has stabilized since your first posts MOST IMPRESIVE! As the same cannot be said for myself. If it feels like some are unfairly holding your feet to the fire on this its because we are. This community has been through much disappointment over the years. So anyone who steps up has to be put under the spot light period

              I think all that is necessary is to not make any claims at all. A little look what Ive done so far is all that is needed, no deadlines, just progress on your work. It will all come to light w/o any fuss this way.

              Ive gotta say I really like your enthusiasm, light heartedness and gumshoe, you are showing a strong earnest strength of character here.
              Sincerely - Patrick

              Comment


              • Hello Machine

                Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                If you have 12 watt light, with 12 v and 1amp.

                If you lower the voltage, amps will go up if there is a source to draw from, to give same 12 watts.
                if you lower the volts, watts out will go down if there is no source to provide extra current,why would amps not stay the same, or decrease? therefore less then 12 watts, and light dims.

                So like always, it depends. Like everyone has been saying, we need a few more measurements, or am I wrong, and if I am I apoligize, but please tell me why?

                Since the beginning, i have been amazed that lights are being lite, across diodes that should be blocking current. My research will continue into this amazing effect, no matter if over unity or not. So thanks for that UFO, no matter what else. I think the radiant generator is a whole other topic.

                If I am wrong in what I said above, would someone explain why.

                Also, since I am going to build this, come hell or high water, I have a more technical question regarding the build.

                UFO, if two parameters, rpm and torque, must not change or no volts out, Why were lights on in your last video, rmp was only 2400, or I missed something, sorry, just trying to understand.
                Hello Machine,

                Related to V & A...You are correct, as also Lester444.

                Since the times that Ohm wrote His Laws...V/I...Meaning they are INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL in every aspect,...now, if someone does not understand that terminology...well, would have to go back to Elementary Math School.

                Related to lights On when RPM's dropped on Video...

                Machine, once that you have gotten the Generator rotor coils excited, from a previous correct speed/torque run...then it will take a decrease, and still outputting power.
                What can not be done is trying to get it started without the required two parameters present. it will not get excited, it will not output nada...

                Think about a Car Battery relation to a Gas Engine...you can not take it off and expect to start the car...however, after it has started then remove it and (if Alternator/voltage regulating systems are fine) gas engine will keep running without battery..
                The battery represents (in the example above) the static exciter fields-capacitor circuit in the generator, and the Alternator/Voltage Regulating System are the rotary stator on your Meccalte...

                The Brush Less Meccalte is a maintenance free unit, except for mechanical failure like bearings...or mistreatment by overload or others.

                It has an Isolated (that is why brushless) Dual Independent Rotor Coils wrapped around the two poles respectively, this is the rotary stator, they are closed by a diode in different directions (same winding direction on both coils to cancel reverse magnetic polarity, rendering a steady South and North Poles...the other component it has closing out the coils (parallel to diode) is a Varistor, or Movistor ...they are in charge to prevent transients spikes and regulate voltage within coils to obtain a steady/linear voltage across, therefore a steady magnetic field/flux. Now, every time you turn off generator, this coils go empty on charge (no caps there) However, the charge is retained in a 400V AC Cap attached to the outer exciting coils wrapped around the static frame where the generating fields are.
                So, every time you start the generator, there is a process of Induction from the exciter coils-cap to energize rotor coils, however, this induction starting process needs to be at those specific parameters (RPM's and Torque) otherwise rotor will not get excited...and if rotor do not get excited...it would not induce energy back in the generating fields (no output)

                But once Rotor Coils are excited...RPM's could drop below spec's value (up to a point though)...as also torque...it will be dim on output...but there will be power at output

                And If You discharge that capacitor... Generator will not output nothing... even at 3600 RPM's and 15 HP...till you "Jump Start it" with a 120 V AC "touch"...

                Sorry, I believe I extended too long here... ...but hope you see the picture clear now.


                Regards Mon Ami


                Ufopolitics
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • Hello Patrick

                  Originally posted by minoly View Post
                  You GO tinman
                  You GO John
                  In my home town that means youre awesome, keep it up!
                  as well as M.A. - bolt1 and any others...


                  U.P. I was amongst the first to get the little toy up and running, Ive been rooting for you ever since. Im lazy though, nore do I have the patience for a large build this makes me a waiter/watcher LOL
                  Its nice to see your patience and character has stabilized since your first posts MOST IMPRESIVE! As the same cannot be said for myself. If it feels like some are unfairly holding your feet to the fire on this its because we are. This community has been through much disappointment over the years. So anyone who steps up has to be put under the spot light period

                  I think all that is necessary is to not make any claims at all. A little look what Ive done so far is all that is needed, no deadlines, just progress on your work. It will all come to light w/o any fuss this way.

                  Ive gotta say I really like your enthusiasm, light heartedness and gumshoe, you are showing a strong earnest strength of character here.
                  Sincerely - Patrick
                  Hello Patrick,

                  Wow, You have been "on and off" (In-Out) here but could say every once in a "Blue Moon"...
                  However, every time I have seen you around here...is to "throw wood to the fires of Skepticism"...
                  Well...let me not be unfair here...I would say "Once" you were very enthusiastic about that little red and beautiful motor...you replicated, as also the nice video you uploaded...so, yes, have to admit that not always You have been a "solid conservative" here...lol

                  However, now, because of your confession about Laziness...I understand you better...

                  Anyways, yes, Patrick I have changed, been around already for a few months...and kind of got used to the skeptics criticism, the doubts and questions etc...

                  But like I said before...and you also mentioned now...yes, You are very right, I am very persistent...some may have no idea how much and how far I could go to get something DONE and Over with...

                  Regards and please, keep showing up a bit more often...


                  Ufopolitics
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • Thank you UFO,

                    That cleared some things up, for me. Makes perfect sense now.

                    Hey, I have two motors coming, maybe I should wind two patterns to see difference. Looking forward to video.

                    I also emailed the company johnStone linked, xcell-rt, but no reply, yet, for torque measurements. I also have a 5000 watt gas, gen. I thought I would load it untill it popped. Then see if same load would pop a breaker on the mecc alte when finished.
                    Does a watt meter work for pulsed? I'm sure it does.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                      "that has been already approved by "Skeptics Country"
                      Did you call me?
                      What a show I've missed!

                      Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                      "Skeptics, Conservatives and the "Tea Party" members are still in shock"
                      What shock you're mumbling about?
                      As I told you it will never work - under load it's losing rpm (you said it will increase torque and speed under load);
                      Of course it will drive a gen, it's still a motor even with four pairs of coils at the time; get a regular 80-90% efficient motor (not piece of crap) and you will get better performance;

                      "INPUT
                      Voltage: 33.08
                      Amperage:75.8
                      Input Watts:2507 Watts?

                      Output
                      Four Lamps at 120V
                      Amperage: 41 A
                      Output Watts: (120X41)=4920 Watts"

                      You must be kidding!! You can't evaluate the output by brightness of the lights!
                      In this case the light shines exactly on 2500w minus loses.
                      Congratulations - it's FULL FIASCO, amigo.
                      You need help, man, sorry.
                      And btw poor Tesla is spinning in his grave - it has nothing to do with Him.
                      Get proper tests (the one and only evidence of OU is a self powering) and get congs from "Skeptics Country"
                      Until then get approval from crowd awaiting a miracle.
                      Good luck in your very hard challenge.

                      Comment


                      • Hey promt

                        I'm still waiting to see your motor you claim to have built. I still think your full of s***.

                        Comment


                        • Hello,

                          Yes, I am a bit confused...."out come the wolves"

                          Cant you see the purpose of this asymmetry? We are dealing with an electrical motor with an OUTPUT of radiant energy to add to its mechanical output. We are dealing with a new machine never yet been made before (in the open source community) and all people can talk about is how they are even more skeptical. I dont think we can even comprehend what radiant energy can provide yet. People should be enthusiastic about these findings and looking into researching them for themselves. For all those who are WATCHERS and TALKERS I would calm down a bit on the skepticism and put downs. We are dealing with an entirely new area of research UFO has GIVEN US for free. For the spread of knowledge and truth and all some people can talk about is how they are going to wait and talk about OU impossibility and put downs....this saddens me that people are putting down someone trying so hard to provide information to them for free and for the betterment of humanity. This should be an area of people with HELPFUL comments and enthusiastic remarks. If your going to be a debbie downer I would appreciate if you didnt post because I like to read new updates, not more skeptical remarks. This is only slowing down the process....

                          @UFO keep up your work and dont get lost in all the skeptical remarks.

                          Trying to prove anything in theory has gotten us NO WHERE especially in these forums where people argue how people are wrong in what they are doing according to their OWN HELD THEORY on an operation NO ONE ELSE HERE has made themselves or probably understands to the extent UFO does. SO lets be nice and happy now we are on the verge of a new time and era KNOWLEDGE INCLUDED.

                          I am still applauding you, UFO, for your work. Dont get too stranded on trying to prove yourself to people who do not understand entirely. It will come with time.

                          Warren

                          Comment


                          • Hi UFO, friend!
                            I could not catch up all those posts today, so bear with me if it is off topic.

                            1a. Please compare the readings of your meters by connecting them at the very same point. So you can detect defective ones.
                            1b. You may want to measure volt / amps at input and then volt / amps output with the very same meters. Even if their reading might deviate from true values - the ratio will be very very precise!

                            2. Those 41 Amps mesured at output are not explainable.

                            2a. Incandescent bulbs draw at switch on time a current up to 5 ... 10 times because of their low cold resistance - but for short time only.
                            This can't be applied at your test as they were quite constantly switched on.

                            2b. If we slowly increse the voltage they will draw few current while increasing with voltage (not linearly but no fancy graph). Carbon filament behaves quite linearly.

                            2c. Increasing current at decreasing voltage is a property of switched mode PSUs at input circuit. But this does not apply to your setup. Are you sure the lamps have no PSU inside?

                            3. As we the gen head delivers true sine and incandescent bulbs to not give a phase shift between current and voltage we can multiply A*V for power calculation. Any inductive or capacitive load will falsify the result.

                            4. An easy way to flash over the power output is to measure the brightness of incandescent bulbs. Any cheap solar cell i.e. out of a calculator measures quite linearly the brightness if connected to a DMM measuring A. In order to get reliable measurements the bulb needs to be protected from environmental light, refelxions and the position of the cell needs to be same for all measurements. I mount in this case the bulb in a long tube and mount the cell at the other end - well protected from heat. The setup needs to be calibrated with a variable voltage while measuring volt and amps. Then I draw a graph with A vs. Watt.
                            This setup will measure as well non sine wave forms pretty precise.

                            Watch the other thread. There you got an answer as well. I hope you like it
                            JohnS
                            Last edited by JohnStone; 12-15-2012, 10:39 PM.
                            Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by promt View Post
                              Did you call me?
                              You can't evaluate the output by brightness of the lights!
                              Actually it is a credible power measurement if the light output from incandescent bulbs is measured with a calibrated monotonic heat or light sensor.
                              For an example see here.

                              Human eyes and a video camera with auto-iris are not a monotonic light sensors and the results they produce do not constitute a credible scientific evidence.

                              Also multiplying average AC Amps and AC Volts to calculate Watts is not believable either. This method is credible only for pure DC (not for PDC ,though).

                              Those trueRMS meters are useless with non-sinusoidal waveforms or waveforms containing higher frequency components (e.g. commutator noise).

                              Bolt is correct to demand the use of a real Wattmeter on the OUTPUT of this device.

                              @UFO
                              No self-respecting scientist will believe your measurements of AC or PDC power with average readings of voltage and current meters, multiplied together.

                              If you want to convince real scientists and engineers you must either rectify and measure pure DC or use power measuring methods that first multiply volts and amps at high rate and average the results later.
                              Last edited by verpies; 12-15-2012, 10:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Skepticism is an important element of scientisfic work. But it is an element only and not science itself.
                                • Skepticism never moved in order to do anything to the betterment of humanity
                                • It never had a vision nor a dream
                                • It never invented
                                • .....


                                Wright brothers did not fly their plain because - but despite skepticism and despite several misfortunes.

                                Skepticism has to stay in the backyard in order to help deciding for the best way to make dreams real and there it is a very valuable tool. In this sense I am a skeptic as well in that I try to forward knowledge in order to get that proof and make the dream real.

                                But destilled and applied outside its goal skepticism it is a toxic fusel.

                                UFO's measurements are still not suffitiently devised - that's true but he shurely will forward the data required. Why crackling before?

                                JohnS
                                Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                                Comment

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