Ionization & Water Fuel

[juju]

[chasson321]

last edit...

[juju]

tim

i think that it was not the italian goverment...

was it, sebosfato?

[vrand]

Thanks for the translation site for that was eye opening as to what is really going on here. It's all about business for Tutanka so we should not expect anything from him that will lead to gaining energy independence or even an understanding of the water for fuel technology, nope, just the run around we have seen since the announcement. To know that the Italian government seems to have taken Sebosfato work is good to know for it shows that this technology is liked by no government. And like h2opower has been saying water in and water out is the goal or as Tutanka put it, "Everything begins and ends with water."

Again thanks for the site so we can understand what's being said.

Tim

Yea, first Sebosfato next tutanka. Its called "inventors disease" , dreams of $$ billions, only to be slammed closed by the Italian government due to "national security" and the inventor gets nothing, or even worst jail time for talking about it.

[tutanka]

Yea, first Sebosfato next tutanka. Its called "inventors disease" , dreams of $$ billions, only to be slammed closed by the Italian government due to "national security" and the inventor gets nothing, or even worst jail time for talking about it.

Sorry not italian government but brasilian.. sebosfato isn't italian..

[vrand]

Sorry not italian government but brasilian.. sebosfato isn't italian..

Good news

Hopefully the Italian govt will let you publish your patent.

Do you have a backup plan in case they try to stop your invention?

Regards, Mike R.

[vrand]

Sorry but for me don't have sense.. I suggest you to study pulsed corona discharge.. Regards

I opened up a new thread on Corona Discharge so researchers can further study this form of electricity.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...discharge.html

Regards, Mike R.

[sebosfato]

thinking about that

if we assume the exhaust could be OH ions there would be a strange gain in volume because there would be double the number of water molecules at the output, maybe this would give more" thermal energy expansion "??? i was thinking that if we could burn H2 + O we would have H20 output however if we burn H2+2O then output would be -OH + -OH the double of oxygens would interact in the combustion chamber... What do you think about ??? Maybe this -OH's need a bit of photon energy to reach an equilibrium and become water again.... aka re energize...


This would explain why meyer used positively charged oxygens to react with the H atoms in a way to avoid the recombination of the water molecule, instead being a water ion recombination type... Maybe ... who knows

[pengrove]

thinking about that

if we assume the exhaust could be OH ions there would be a strange gain in volume because there would be double the number of water molecules at the output, maybe this would give more" thermal energy expansion "??? i was thinking that if we could burn H2 + O we would have H20 output however if we burn H2+2O then output would be -OH + -OH the double of oxygens would interact in the combustion chamber... What do you think about ??? Maybe this -OH's need a bit of photon energy to reach an equilibrium and become water again.... aka re energize...


This would explain why meyer used positively charged oxygens to react with the H atoms in a way to avoid the recombination of the water molecule, instead being a water ion recombination type... Maybe ... who knows

[sebosfato]

Hi pengrove I read in a physics book that any disassociating event like electrolysis or breaking down the n2 into n should be endotermic or more clearly absorb energy from the environment being heat or electromagnetic energy... So i think we should avoid the generation of nox inside the ICE because would lead to consume more oxygen than needed for the combustion of the h2... however i was thinking that maybe we don't need actually to reach ionization but maybe only excitation of the atoms... and a slightly positive charge to create an imbalance witch could allow the h2 to link not only with one oxygen but two..

Do you all remember when meyer said " i'm the big oxygen atom, and i'm missing electrons, hey you hydrogen molecule give me your electron....


MAybe he was talking about this but not at a highly ionized state but slightly charged state and maybe just exited with magnetism and electromagnetic energy like photons and cheap high voltage...

What happens when ozone O3 oxidize H2 molecule, what is the reaction,

couldn't it be 2O3 + 3 H2 = 6 OH- or something like that?
but could be also 2O3 + 3H2 = to 3H2O + O3
So burning more oxygen

I'm stating to believe that meyer did this to reach what he calls the thermal energy. More atoms in the reaction increase the overall mass reacted, thus higher energy... maybe??? probably

I don't understand how N should be included in this reaction and i think that would not be such a good idea as it would generate more nox theoretically, wouldn't???

Maybe their idea is to create the ammonia inside the engine and than recirculate it to actually use it as combustible over and over again????? by using the heat losses of the engine, thus there would be water losses only by evaporation???

HE told us they need a few hydrogen

all starts with water and finish with water..

[sucahyo]

if we assume the exhaust could be OH ions

It is not Meyer process anymore then?

Still, corona discharges requires +60kv (80kv was found to be better) and high amperage current.

Thanks for the link. I found this yesterday:


Corona at 4.5kv with sharp needle at 3 microAmp.


BTW, h2opower point that I was wrong to call dissociation as ionization. From this moment on, I will refer the process of breaking up water, N2 and O2 in ionizer as dissociation, not ionization. Sorry, for the confusion.

Ionization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ionization is the physical process of converting an atom or molecule into an ion by adding or removing charged particles such as electrons or other ions. This is often confused with dissociation (chemistry).

[pengrove]

It is not Meyer process anymore then?






Thanks for the link. I found this yesterday:


Corona at 4.5kv with sharp needle at 3 microAmp.


BTW, h2opower point that I was wrong to call dissociation as ionization. From this moment on, I will refer the process of breaking up water, N2 and O2 in ionizer as dissociation, not ionization. Sorry, for the confusion.

Ionization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow that is how all of these relate to each other, the Joe Cell, Meyer, Archieblue, All three of them are the result of Photon charged water mist/vapor.

[sebosfato]

It is not Meyer process anymore then?


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I guess it is He Meyer says highly energized combustible gas ions, than expelled water mist on the exhaust. If you combusted ions you might have ions on the output... I guess

What do you think?

What tends to be more easy to occur? Or to give us more Energy output or if you like thermal explosive energy?

3H2 + O3 = 3H2O
2H2+ O3 = 2H2O + O
4H2+2O3=4H2O+ O2
3H2+2O3= 6OH
2H2+O2= 2H2O

[sucahyo]

What do you think?

What tends to be more easy to occur? Or to give us more Energy output or if you like thermal explosive energy?

3H2 + O3 = 3H2O
2H2+ O3 = 2H2O + O
4H2+2O3=4H2O+ O2
3H2+2O3= 6OH
2H2+O2= 2H2O

Why only stable molecule? why not include the ionic?

Here is what I think:
N2 + O2 + H2O + NOx + H ion + O ion + N ion -> something

For maximum effect:
-> NH3 + HNO3 + N2O2 + H2O.

[Aaron]

bonding

Aaron,
I don't uderstand why you continue to mentioned hydrogen/nitrogen when you have water/nitrogen.. the reactions are completely differents.. Regards

Because the nitrogen isn't bonding directly to an h2o molecule. I'm not
discussing anything in any particular sequence.