Ionization & Water Fuel

[sucahyo]

my suggestion is.. think only with your mind. Regards

Yes, ok, I still exploring things. Many people do experiment on hho cell here, it would be a good thing if they still can use the cell.

Yeah. What exactly do u want to accomplish with the formula?

Multiple formula will give backup in case the main formula fail.

Therefore, if a process is using lower heat and lower pressure, it is necessary to ionize the gases beyond "just simple ionization" so that they are more easily brought together.

I don't get that, if there is not enough heat or pressure, there would be no ionization.

Once a Positive charged Nitrogen Ion leaves the magnetic field it is looking for electrons. When the Nitrogen Ion receives electrons from the atmosphere it releases the same amount of energy in photons. The photon burst ejects all of the covalent bonding electrons in the surrounding steam releasing the hydrogen from the oxygen.

Or the steam and the nitrogen are both ionized at the same time and reassembled after exiting the magnetic field.

This is just a bit of information:- If you reduce Nitrogen (N2) to a nitride ion (N) at a cathode made of nickel, these ions can be oxidised in the presence of atomic hydrogen (H1) to form NH3. Now this has to be done with a salt bridge (chemical in water, dialectric, what ever you want to call it) LiC1-KC1.

The problem with existing process is they use pure nitrogen while we use very mixed gas.


I am beginning to wonder if ionizing the exhause gas & hho is better than using ambient air because exhaust gas should has lower oxygen content. Exhaust gas oxygen already bond with other molecule. This way we don't have to worry about lack of oxygen in case our ionizer do too much and deplete the ambient air oxygen.

Maybe a 10Amp hydroxy booster output combined with exhaust gas at 3:2 ratio that we ionized before forwarded to fuel source line in a carburetor.

[Aaron]

nh3 on demand

Nicks Theory
Nitrogen being the first element on the periodic table should also be the easiest to turn into a positive charged Ion. Nitrogen while in a magnetic field using the Stark Effect can be pumped up to the point of ionization with photon energy. The magnetic field keeps the electrons from going back to lower shells. Once a Positive charged Nitrogen Ion leaves the magnetic field it is looking for electrons. When the Nitrogen Ion receives electrons from the atmosphere it releases the same amount of energy in photons. The photon burst ejects all of the covalent bonding electrons in the surrounding steam releasing the hydrogen from the oxygen. Then the hydrogen bonds with the Nitrogen creating NH3.

Or the steam and the nitrogen are both ionized at the same time and reassembled after exiting the magnetic field.

You're the closest so far - in public discussion anyway. There are a few
specifics that need to be spelled out depending on the school of thought
on it. But no matter the school of thought on this process, it is still
nh3 on demand. Maybe you could spell out the ionization of nitrogen
in the same way the Meyer purists discuss ionization of oxygen. It makes
it very apparent what must be satisfied in order for an entire molecule of
nh3 to be made.

[Oneminde]

Time too drop a message.

I follow this tread to see the prognoses and how members here are working to solve the "problem" - not that it is becouse the solution was found a long time ago and yes, it is not only Tutanka that knows etc. Most of you are looking at the solution and have been for some time now, some of you are so close that you do not even know it. Will I present it? No not at this time and not becouse I can't, I chose to not do that becouse that woudl harm the process. Many of you present good information and angle of approach which is good and can also trow someone in a new and not thought of tangent - or spawn into a new method.

I know that many of you follow or did follow h2opower and yes, for many here he showed a good way to follow, but as many back then was "stuck" so are many now. I do not jump in too these arguments anymore on how is correct and how is not - you either want to understand and construct a functionel device / system or you want to be the "king I am" .. beleive it or not, it is not a fight for the highest rank, it is a fight for the technology.
So, my advice now is to see beyonde "I was the first" and see what you really are trying to do.

Tutanka was not the first to make NH3 on demand and neither was S.Meyer so stop F.ing arround. Sure - I DID IT is a pleasent thought for many, makes them feel powerfull and get $ in there eye sight while some is shy and moderate towards telling what they have or did, but you can NEVER own a process, only the device. Become anrgy becouse someone knows and do not tell etc .. com on, who gives any teh right to do anything of this that I just wrote about?? Think about that for a sec

The best anyone can do is to follow there own nose and stop listening to "angry" people or "king's and queens"..
So here is my tip of teh day;

"Look at the N2 molecule and compare that to the NH3 molecule - what do you SEE?"

As long as member keep jumping this "key" I will return to that point over and over again and "you" can bash me as much as you want or stop and read / look and this. In fact, go back - way back and start over - sometimes that is important and if you do and also follow Aarons indications and clear you're mind on the F.ing oxygen part - you too will see what and why.

Have a nice day

[vrand]

You're the closest so far - in public discussion anyway. There are a few
specifics that need to be spelled out depending on the school of thought
on it. But no matter the school of thought on this process, it is still
nh3 on demand. Maybe you could spell out the ionization of nitrogen
in the same way the Meyer purists discuss ionization of oxygen. It makes
it very apparent what must be satisfied in order for an entire molecule of
nh3 to be made.

Hi Aaron,
I was talking to Bob Boyce this morning about this NH3 closed loop cycle to run an engine.

His take on it:

1. The HV energy input, to ionize the air & water that is in air or will needed to be added, will also need HV current to break the N2 & H2O bonds. This will require lots of input electric energy.

2. To get NH3 will require 3H2O to N2 to get NH3.

3. Closed loop recycling exhaust gas is good as all the H2O and N2 gase elements are already in and don't need any more input.

4. Photon bombardment with EM (knocks electrons loose) from LED's was already patented by Meyers.

5. Ammonia is corrosive and would need stainless steel materials.

6. The recycled exhaust gas needs to be ionized then run through a heat exchanger cooler to take out the heat from the gas. So that when the ionized gases enters the engine chamber it can then expand at spark ignition.

Bob's main concern was the HV energy input, in the ionizing energies required to break the bonds, would be greater than the energy output from running an engine.

If tutanka and group experimental results figured this out, energy in is less than energy out, then it looks good to go to me.

Regards, Mike R.

[pengrove]

1. The HV energy input, to ionize the air & water that is in air or will needed to be added, will also need HV current to break the N2 & H2O bonds. This will require lots of input electric energy.

The N2 covalent bonds are some of the strongest. This could be correct.

2. To get NH3 will require 3H2O to N2 to get NH3.

>>3 H to N to get NH3

4. Photon bombardment with EM (knocks electrons loose) from LED's was already patented by Meyers.

>>Bob talks about supplying electrons in his interview, he also says that his method is the same as Meyers.

5. Ammonia is corrosive and would need stainless steel materials.

>>It can be used in existing engines with only minor modifications to carburettors/injectors.

6. The recycled exhaust gas needs to be ionized then run through a heat exchanger cooler to take out the heat from the gas. So that when the ionized gases enters the engine chamber it can then expand at spark ignition.

>>Nitrogen is generally unreactive at standard temperature and pressure.

[Aaron]

nh3 on demand

1. The HV energy input, to ionize the air & water that is in air or will needed to be added, will also need HV current to break the N2 & H2O bonds. This will require lots of input electric energy.

2. To get NH3 will require 3H2O to N2 to get NH3.

3. Closed loop recycling exhaust gas is good as all the H2O and N2 gase elements are already in and don't need any more input.

4. Photon bombardment with EM (knocks electrons loose) from LED's was already patented by Meyers.

5. Ammonia is corrosive and would need stainless steel materials.

6. The recycled exhaust gas needs to be ionized then run through a heat exchanger cooler to take out the heat from the gas. So that when the ionized gases enters the engine chamber it can then expand at spark ignition.

Bob's main concern was the HV energy input, in the ionizing energies required to break the bonds, would be greater than the energy output from running an engine.

If tutanka and group experimental results figured this out, energy in is less than energy out, then it looks good to go to me.

Regards, Mike R.

Hi Mike,

1 - can be greatly reduced with catalysts as Mike mentioned. Just use
catalysts - can be done without catalysts and everyone's energy in
versus out computations are seriously lacking taking into account other
factors in the entire process.

2 - that's debatable - there are multiple ways.

3 - there are successes with hermetically sealed engines closed looped
but has nothing to do with Meyer's process / NH3 on demand, no tungsten,
etc... it is possible in concept to close this loop as well but I don't know
of it being done with NH3 on demand.

4 - Yes, but can still be used and LED's aren't the only light source that
can be used.

5 - there are already engines running on ammonia with no problems and
as Pengrove said, minor modifications. It really isn't an issue. There are
some companies that rebuild car engines with upgrades to specifically
run on ammonia and without that, the engine will still last very, very long.

6 - this process isn't about that, the heat is actually desired and
required and is pumped right to the water cell hot. There are other uses
for the heat.

And if there is ammonia that is able to condense in the wfc, it is a natural
antifreeze.

[Aaron]

nitrogen and nh3

The N2 covalent bonds are some of the strongest. This could be correct.

Nitrogen is generally unreactive at standard temperature and pressure.

Some of the strongest or strongest? Why is it so strong and what is
this bond exactly. If you answer that, you have a key if you recognize
it in the answer.

Yes, generally but that doesn't account for ionized nitrogen that is
extremely reactive. We're talking about anything but a general situation
for nitrogen.

[vrand]

Hi Mike,

1 - can be greatly reduced with catalysts as Mike mentioned. Just use
catalysts - can be done without catalysts and everyone's energy in
versus out computations are seriously lacking taking into account other
factors in the entire process.

2 - that's debatable - there are multiple ways.

3 - there are successes with hermetically sealed engines closed looped
but has nothing to do with Meyer's process / NH3 on demand, no tungsten,
etc... it is possible in concept to close this loop as well but I don't know
of it being done with NH3 on demand.

4 - Yes, but can still be used and LED's aren't the only light source that
can be used.

5 - there are already engines running on ammonia with no problems and
as Pengrove said, minor modifications. It really isn't an issue. There are
some companies that rebuild car engines with upgrades to specifically
run on ammonia and without that, the engine will still last very, very long.

6 - this process isn't about that, the heat is actually desired and
required and is pumped right to the water cell hot. There are other uses
for the heat.

And if there is ammonia that is able to condense in the wfc, it is a natural
antifreeze.

Hi Aaron,
Thank you for your reply . What catalysts works with ionizing the air/water gases?
Thanks, Mike

PS tutanka mentions catalysts in the combustion chamber with sprayed H2O water mist, that is also maybe ionized? My question was the catalysts of the air/water (in air) ionization, if there was a catalysts involved.

[pengrove]

Some of the strongest or strongest? Why is it so strong and what is
this bond exactly. If you answer that, you have a key if you recognize
it in the answer.

Yes, generally but that doesn't account for ionized nitrogen that is
extremely reactive. We're talking about anything but a general situation
for nitrogen.

Áre you guys going to make me think again? Lets change the world fella's, it sounds feasible!

I will sign my life away for a good system that works! The millions that I wasted on a boyce system has my trial and error funds limited.

[pengrove]

Some of the strongest or strongest? Why is it so strong and what is
this bond exactly. If you answer that, you have a key if you recognize
it in the answer.

Yes, generally but that doesn't account for ionized nitrogen that is
extremely reactive. We're talking about anything but a general situation
for nitrogen.

I would say that what makes N2 the strongest bond is the fact that it is two electronegative atoms held together with a trivalent non-polar covalent bond.
Hydrogen is also a electronegative atom that could be set up to be used as a donor.

[sucahyo]

WebElements Periodic Table of the Elements | Nitrogen | bond enthalpy data
WebElements Periodic Table of the Elements | Hydrogen | bond enthalpy data

The bond energy in the gaseous diatomic species NN is 945.3 kJ mol-1.
The bond energy in the gaseous diatomic species HO is 427.6 kJ mol-1.

In a gas form energy required to dissociate water into 2H and 1O, assuming there is 2 HO bond in a water is: 2 x 427.6 kJ mol-1 = 855.2 kJ mol-1.

945.3 vs 855.2 is not too far apart I think. Nitrogen is not so inert compare to water. If you build am ionizer stong enough to ionize water vapor, it should be strong enough to ionize nitrogen too.

Interestingly:
The bond energy in the gaseous diatomic species NH is <339 kJ mol-1.
The bond energy in the gaseous diatomic species NO is 630.57 kJ mol-1.
The bond energy in the gaseous diatomic species HH is 435.90 kJ mol-1.

NHx require less energy than NOx, less energy than HO, and less energy than HH. I conclude that after exitting ionizer H is more likely to bond with N.

[Aaron]

nitrogen bond

held together with a trivalent non-polar covalent bond.

So if we want to create NH3, one nitrogen and three hydrogen atoms...

[tutanka]

Hi Aaron,
I was talking to Bob Boyce this morning about this NH3 closed loop cycle to run an engine.

His take on it:

1. The HV energy input, to ionize the air & water that is in air or will needed to be added, will also need HV current to break the N2 & H2O bonds. This will require lots of input electric energy.

2. To get NH3 will require 3H2O to N2 to get NH3.

3. Closed loop recycling exhaust gas is good as all the H2O and N2 gase elements are already in and don't need any more input.

4. Photon bombardment with EM (knocks electrons loose) from LED's was already patented by Meyers.

5. Ammonia is corrosive and would need stainless steel materials.

6. The recycled exhaust gas needs to be ionized then run through a heat exchanger cooler to take out the heat from the gas. So that when the ionized gases enters the engine chamber it can then expand at spark ignition.

Bob's main concern was the HV energy input, in the ionizing energies required to break the bonds, would be greater than the energy output from running an engine.

If tutanka and group experimental results figured this out, energy in is less than energy out, then it looks good to go to me.

Regards, Mike R.

But Bob Boyce is total guru? At today him build ONLY standard HHO cells with electrolyte using a lot of ampere and however also HHO interact a lot with metals.. about energy used.. all depend on the state of water and method used for create new combustible.. Sucahyo have posted first meyer system of meyer (needed more changes for work properly), of course..that was first idea of meyer on the creation of new combustible because only HHO CAN'T RUN AN ENGINE PROPERLY IN THE TIME. Meyer after more experiments using HHO have understand that electrolyte can't be used because change final reaction and for that have created WFC cell.. after experiments, using distilled water, him have understand that instead transform water in HHO can be useful water directly using in part the same method of mix water,air, exaust gas but I know for sure that sometime car stopped to run, the special injector don't work properly because is needed high technology inside.. my object now is run properly an engine for that I have decided to use gas production way using normal spark plug and secure method of gas production. About catalyst .. that is every chemical way for accelerate reaction but you don't need in that process.. you don't have to read patent of meyer but only see designs present inside these. Regards

[tutanka]

Time too drop a message.


"Look at the N2 molecule and compare that to the NH3 molecule - what do you SEE?"

Another guru
If you know all, as you mentioned, answer to my 3 questions..

1) What is type of water used for create NH3?
2) You use ambient air inside your engine?
3) NH3 needed high temp or catalyst for released H atoms, what you use ?

There are 3 simple questions and if you know correct process you reply in few minutes.. if you don't want reply appear clear to the eyes of all peoples that you don't know the process..

[vrand]

But Bob Boyce is total guru? At today him build ONLY standard HHO cells with electrolyte using a lot of ampere and however also HHO interact a lot with metals.. about energy used.. all depend on the state of water and method used for create new combustible.. Sucahyo have posted first meyer system of meyer (needed more changes for work properly), of course..that was first idea of meyer on the creation of new combustible because only HHO CAN'T RUN AN ENGINE PROPERLY IN THE TIME. Meyer after more experiments using HHO have understand that electrolyte can't be used because change final reaction and for that have created WFC cell.. after experiments, using distilled water, him have understand that instead transform water in HHO can be useful water directly using in part the same method of mix water,air, exaust gas but I know for sure that sometime car stopped to run, the special injector don't work properly because is needed high technology inside.. my object now is run properly an engine for that I have decided to use gas production way using normal spark plug and secure method of gas production. About catalyst .. that is every chemical way for accelerate reaction but you don't need in that process.. you don't have to read patent of meyer but only see designs present inside these. Regards

Hi,
What is your energy input? What is the energy output?
Regards, Mike R.