Stanley Meyer Explained

[quantumuppercut]

I hope this helps everyone to understand how all of this works and how to engage in talks if you think something is wrong and/or missing. But please leave the belief systems at home, okay .
h2opower.

Everything exist in reality comes from belief. Belief does not directly bring out reality, but it go through a middle man call logic. If you go back 300 years ago and say that "with a touch of your feet, you can get 5 tons of weight moving at 60mph". That is rediculously absurd, but since people believe in it, they start put together tires, springs, engine, and make it possible. The hard work of logic and make it work is the middle man. People can claim anything they want and it is indeed possible, but are you going to put effort to bring it out to reality is another thing. Stanley Meyer doesn't make this invention from a pure belief though it is his guidance. He has logic in his head of how the whole thing works and he made it through hardwork. His math and logic might not be understood by others, but he did not get it based on luck . You have made the math clearly understood to yourself, it means that your chance of making it works has increased significantly and possibly make it works on the first few try, however, it is not easy for someone else to see exactly what you see. Remember, everything in this world can never be right... and can never be wrong.

[h20power]

Quote from: Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elements of scientific method

There are different ways of outlining the basic method used for scientific inquiry. The scientific community and philosophers of science generally agree on the following classification of method components. These methodological elements and organization of procedures tend to be more characteristic of natural sciences than social sciences. Nonetheless, the cycle of formulating hypotheses, testing and analyzing the results, and formulating new hypotheses, will resemble the cycle described below:

Four essential elements[19][20][21] of a scientific method[22] are iterations,[23][24] recursions,[25] interleavings, and orderings of the following:

• Characterizations (observations,[26] definitions, and measurements of the subject of inquiry)

• Hypotheses[27][28] (theoretical, hypothetical explanations of observations and measurements of the subject)[29]

• Predictions (reasoning including logical deduction[30] from the hypothesis or theory)

• Experiments[31] (tests of all of the above)

Each element of a scientific method is subject to peer review for possible mistakes. These activities do not describe all that scientists do (see below) but apply mostly to experimental sciences (e.g., physics, chemistry). The elements above are often taught in the educational system.[32]

Scientific method is not a recipe: it requires intelligence, imagination, and creativity.[33] It is also an ongoing cycle, constantly developing more useful, accurate and comprehensive models and methods.

This is why I think many people feel they need to attack the theories I have put forth:

Truth and belief

Main article: Truth

Belief can alter observations; those with a particular belief will often see things as reinforcing their belief, even if they do not. Even researchers admit that the first observation may have been a little imprecise, whereas the second and third were "adjusted to the facts," until tradition, education, and familiarity produce a readiness for new perception. [18]

I think that since it has been over 11 years since the death of Stanley Meyer and the theories I posted seem radical it chalanged peoples belief systems. For all of the arguements I have had are with peoples beliefs. They believe the WFC is all you need, no science or math to back up their beliefs just pure beliefs. Same goes for the VIC transformer, and many other aspects of Stanley Meyer's work, they just believe with no mathmatical models of any type and no scientific obervations what so ever. So when I came around showing people the sun really came up on this side of the bed I got attacked for doing so based on just a pure belief system. I am treated by many as Galileo was by the church so many years ago. It took me a long time to see why I got such resistance to the theories I put forth (which are just theories with some mathmatical models and can be modified at any time when the theory breaks down) but now I understand.

A linearized, pragmatic scheme of the four points above is sometimes offered as a guideline for proceeding:[34]

1. Define the question

2. Gather information and resources (observe)

3. Form hypothesis

4. Perform experiment and collect data

5. Analyze data

6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis

7. Publish results

8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)


This is the way everyone should show their thoughts for it is the same as I have done towards you. Test data goes slowly for me for it takes me time to build things but at least I had the currage to show eveyone what I was doing, so others could retest (all of the people now expirementing with this).

If your going to say it works a different way then show your work like shown. That way others can follow your work. Do the math and show the science so we can get away from pure belief systems. Right or wrong I am the first to put math and science to the works of Stanley Meyer like it or not. If I am not it was not shared freely to everyone like this until now.

So, what is a theory?

Quote from: Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hypothesis development

I hope this helps everyone to understand how all of this works and how to engage in talks if you think something is wrong and/or missing. But please leave the belief systems at home, okay .


h2opower.

[tutanka]

[tutanka]

HI,
The principle ii will be tested here in Florence and you can obtain some info on the web. It will be tested from LENS - Laboratory of University of Florence - ITALY, only the principle not application as in meyer system. This is one web link that you can find on, is italian language but you can translate online L'idrogeno ottenuto dall'acqua - Chimici.info

[TRON]

Anyone care to help with this?

Here is a diagram of a partial replication in Logisim (free download) of Figure 2 of Stan meyers control circuit.

The gas pedal goes from narrow pulse to wide pulse, a narrow pulse giving a low voltage out of the next section (analog voltage gen...figure3???) and a wide pulse giving a full 12 volts.... this is part of the control... there are 2 multiplexors, one is connected to the optoschmitts for the wide/narrow signal production (A1) and the other is A2 ( a fail safe...all are lit up unless the LEDs lose power then the whole thing is supposed to shut down... this safety is required because a dark spot (laser accelerator moving gate) will create a signal, and if the LEDs lose power, the whole A1 chip will go dark ( the optoschmitts give a 5VDC signal when dark)(they go "high") and that is bad because the car could go into full speed mode with no driver control... so the A2 chip is tied together at the top right part of the schematic , both outputs are inverted and this equals a true NOR condition and the signal can then continue to the flip flop..

load up this schematic in Logisim and click the clock input repeatedly
its cool, but i need help to figure out the rest of figure 2!

any takers?

[h20power]

At this point people are going to have to start asking and answering their own questions.

Quote from: Design of experiments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Step-by-step procedure in the effective design of an experiment

1. Select problem2. Determining dependent variables
The dependent variables are the variables that are being measured throughout the experiment. There can be many different dependent variables measured during an experiment.
First, you need to split the dependent variables into two different subcategories, system level and individual level. On a system level, questions are taken into consideration regarding the experiment itself taking place. System level variables need to be created to ensure that when the conclusion is reached, it is backed up by as many different angles as possible to support the conclusion. This idea is known as converging operations. For example, a system level dependent variable is how many experimenters are used during a certain task. On an individual level, the dependent variables are measurements of a particular subject. Individual level dependent variables need to be a reducible and analyzable measurement. If the experiment were repeated identically, the individual variables need to provide identical data while removing all risks possible. For example, the amount of time it takes for a certain participant to complete a task. Both system-level and individual level dependent variables need to be concrete enough that the audience reading the experiment will accept the found data.
Dependent variables can include performance measures, subjective measures, and physical response. Performance measures include examples such as how long it took for the participant to complete the task as well as the number of mistakes that were made. Subjective measures include whether or not the participants preferred the method used and how many scales were used during the experiment. Finally, physical responses include injuries that occurred or changes in physiological measurements.
3. Determining independent variables
The independent variables are the variables that are manipulated in the experiment. Independent variables include things related to people such as age, sex, vision, level of education or general work experience.
This brings about the topic of obtaining suitable human subjects. To ensure that the specifications of the independent variables are met, subjects should be screened prior to running the experiment. Subjects may be offered an incentive in cash or kind in exchange for their cooperation.
4. Determining the number of levels of independent variables
The number of levels of independent variables determines the number of experimental conditions to be manipulated. This is important in determining the extent of the scope of the experiment. For example, if an experimenter were to design an experiment to examine the relative performance of 10 automobiles, the independent variable, in this case the type of automobile, would have 10 levels.
5. Determining the possible combinations
The types of combinations between the independent variables have to be established in order for the experiment to be valid. Using the earlier example of automobiles, it may not be feasible to compare Model A with an automatic transmission with Model B which has a manual transmission. Therefore, it is important to establish the possible types of combinations.
6. Determining the number of observations
It is insufficient to obtain one observation. Depending on the desired analysis, there are certain factors that need to be taken into consideration when deciding on the number of observations. This includes the number of trials before a subject becomes familiar with the experiment, the number of trials before fatigue sets in and the number of trials required to obtain statically significant data.
7. Redesign
Redesign is necessary in order to obtain the optimal design. When flaws or inconsistencies are found in the current experiment design, a redesign is necessary to correct them. Examples of flaws and inconsistencies include inaccurate statement of the problem, choosing the wrong variables and not being able to obtain the required apparatus. The recommended timeframe for redesign is as follows;
45% - Planning and scheduling
5-10% - Testing
45-50% - Reduction, analysis and writing
8. Randomization
A randomized, controlled trial is considered the most reliable and impartial method of determining necessary data. Randomization is a process that assigns research participants by chance, rather than by choice, to either the investigation group or the control group. Normally, groups of subjects are organized by age, sex, or education, depending on the experiment, to gather concrete data. This process ensures that the trials are not set to receive the preferred results.
9. Meet ethical and legal requirements
Infamous examples of the Tuskegee Experiment, the Milgram experiment and others have dramatized ethical issues involved with experimenting on humans; there are significant moral issues of experimenting on animals as well. Legal requirements have accordingly developed. In the United States, the Institutional Review Board (IRB) is a regulating authority on many experiments conducted on humans to ensure that they protect the rights and welfare of the research subjects. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Department of Health and Human Services regulations have empowered the IRB to approve, require modifications in planned research prior to approval, or to disapprove research, for certain research such as intended for presentation in FDA drug approval processes. American universities receiving federal funding require researchers to obtain prior approval from institutional review boards before implementing studies of animal subjects, especially humans.
10. Mathematical model
In order to ensure that the experiment is valid, it is useful to develop a mathematical model to the entire system. By doing this, anomalies and infeasible ideas can be weeded out immediately. By basing the experiment upon valid mathematical principles, it ensures that all aspects of the experiment are practical and feasible.
11. Data collection
The data collection portion of experiment design must make sure that the experiment is supported by factual data. This involves collecting raw data while adhering to the experimental conditions. The data from this portion is expected to be large and chunky.
12. Data reduction
This portion involves cleaning up the raw data into manageable chunks which can then be utilized. Not all the data that was collected may be pertinent and thus should be excluded from the analysis.
13. Data verification
The most important part of the entire process is the data verification. This is often done by plotting the reduced data, allowing the experimenter to visually locate significant outlying points which may indicate erroneous data collection. If the data is skewed in any way, experimenters either look back at the methods used and redesign a phase of the experiment or they faithfully cite their findings.

This work is not easy as you can see but it is the right way to do things and each and everyone of us has to do this kind of work on Stanley Meyer's water for fuel technology. Now not all in the quote will apply it is only a guid to help you move your work forwards. You have to start planning your expirements, write down what you observe, and ask and answer questions of your expirements. Example; Did the expirement do what you predicted it would do, if no, why not? If you run blind expirements then you have to make note of everything that takes place in the expirement(s) which I have done many times observing all that happens in the expirement(s) but they all have some questions that are made before I start. You all have to have a plan in place to move your work forwards. You are all your own teams, and you must start asking and answering your own questions at some point in your work. If you have gotten to the point of testing then test with a plan in place. Don't make halfass stuff and expect it to work. Like making a Gas Processor with no Electron Extraction Circuit or controling circuitry to go alone with it. Don't make the injectors without an EEC and controling circuitry.

All I have done is laid out how important these things are and how they work together to make water into a new form of fuel that will give us energy independence nothing more. Much work/testing/fabrecation remains (at least it does for me) if I am to get this engine up and running soon. Plan your expirements out and ask/answer any questions you have and/or observe. Be a scientist for energy independence is a worthy goal.

Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Experimental techniques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Optimal design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Glossary of experimental design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


h2opower.

[tutanka]

Hi Everyone,

Yes, I am very busy these days with my own work as should be the rest of you. As for answering any questions from Tutanka I am afaid he burnt up his currancy with me in the last talks and I will not engage in any more talks with him. I also ask everyone to look at what he post and really think about it for he has shown me he is not all that good of an expirementer.



So I ask everyone to put on there thinking caps and see that creating NO's is a very bad thing and it is not how Stanley Meyer made use of water as a source of fuel. Read the summary I posted here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post47874.


h2opower.

I'm refer to Nitrogen Oxide know also as NOS.. I remember to you that in air is present N2 not NO. All start from N2, that have an wavelenght ionization different from oxygen molecular O2. In this way I don't create any Ozone or Oxygen atomic into GP but only N2 ionized. Yes..Meyer use water as fuel source but not low amount of oxygen present on air but large amount of Nitrogen destabilized. This is sended to pressure into injector and mixed with water mist and exaust gas (every N2), when water split the hydrogen and oxygen are released, N2 ionized capture pure atom of oxygen (more electronegative) and obtain N2O.. H2 is also split in 2H trought HV and mixed with N2O inside chambre of combustion..after name of reaction is called thermal explosive energy..

[h20power]

Hi Everyone,

Yes, I am very busy these days with my own work as should be the rest of you. As for answering any questions from Tutanka I am afaid he burnt up his currancy with me in the last talks and I will not engage in any more talks with him. I also ask everyone to look at what he post and really think about it for he has shown me he is not all that good of an expirementer.

Quote from: Nitrogen oxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When NOx and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) react in the presence of sunlight, they form photochemical smog, a significant form of air pollution, especially in the summer. Children, people with lung diseases such as asthma, and people who work or exercise outside are susceptible to adverse effects of smog such as damage to lung tissue and reduction in lung function.[2]

Mono-nitrogen oxides eventually form nitric acid when dissolved in atmospheric moisture, forming a component of acid rain. The following chemical reaction occurs when nitrogen dioxide reacts with water:

2 NO2 + H2O → HNO2 + HNO3
Nitrous acid then decomposes as follows:

3 HNO2 → HNO3 + 2 NO + H2O
where nitric oxide will oxidize to form nitrogen dioxide that again reacts with water, ultimately forming nitric acid:

4 NO + 3 O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO3
Mono-nitrogen oxides are also involved in tropospheric production of ozone.[3]

NOx should not be confused with NOS, a term used to refer to nitrous oxide (N2O) in the context of its use as a power booster for internal combustion engines.

So I ask everyone to put on there thinking caps and see that creating NO's is a very bad thing and it is not how Stanley Meyer made use of water as a source of fuel. Read the summary I posted here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post47874.


h2opower.

[tutanka]

HI to all..
You are focalized on oxygen but I explain my theory/work
Meyer don't want use oxygen in Gas Processor but ONLY N2 present for 78% on air and tranform it in N2O gas or as is called NOS.
In fact complete reaction is this...
N2 is photon/ionized from GP and when this is mixed to high pressure into injector split water, N2 absorbe oxygen and obtain this reaction is: H20+N2= H2+N2O
Into injector H2 is also tranformed in 2H, hydrogen atomic have more of 2.5 times of H2.
2H+N2O=Thermal Explosive Energy

This is other scenario..

[tutanka]

it seems like you guys want to produce enough ionized air to fill the intake manifold... that will not work because the engine will source electrons from the battery back into the ionized air as it passes through the intake manifold, and you will end up with regular ambient air by the time it reaches the piston...

am i not getting it?

the only way this works is if the tubing (approx. 1/2 inch I.D.) is plastic on its way to the nylon enclosure/mixing chamber where the ionized ambient air breaks some of the water mist bonds and then the 3 components travel thru more insulated tubing until they get to the injector. I believe the injector has high voltage as a final whammy on the gass mixture to: #1. keep the fuel gas from stabilizing, #2. finish breaking any remaining bonds that may have reformed along the path to the injector, #3. Act also as a traditional spark plug at the 5 degree ATDC point to combust the mixture.

Am i making sense?

The gas processor is simply a more efficient way of preparing some of the hydroxy ahead of time so that enough fuel can be supplied on demand by the tiny size of the injector...this eliminates the hydrogen cell from the vehicle for safety! This must have been Stan's final design... the one that was so dangerous to the powers that be!

and with 3 VIC coils... one for the GP, one for cyls 1&3 and one for cyls 2&4
very simple!

When you see the Gas Processor mounted under the special air chamber and in the intake air path, you are looking at a very old patent, one of the first ones...but if you look at the Buggy near the end, you notice its mounted on a shelf ahead of the air fan and that theres a 1/2" tube coming off of it... so if you plan on putting the gas processor in the manifold air path.... well i just wanted to make this design point well understood by everyone... and since H2oPower cant reply to every post... hes probably too busy building these things!

Hope this clears things up

Download the MeyersFullData PDF

forget about the patents from 1983!

HI,
Thanks for reply but you haven't answer to my questions..
Air destabilized go trought air intake with flow depression created from piston and I don't think that have necessary time for electrons reassociation..
However the water injector in fact produce H2+O and this oxygen isn't destabilized. All , H2+O, exaust gas and air destabilized, are injected inside chambre of combustion. As you know Meyer was focalized no more on hydrogen production but how obtain thermal explosive energy for obtain sufficient energy for run engine. Without this condition your engine don't work. The oxygen atom having less than four covalent electrons (Electron Extraction Process) is unable to reach "Stable State" ( 6 to 8 covalent electrons required) when the two hydrogen atoms seek to form the water molecule during thermal gas ignition. But I remember you that when injector split water mist you produce H2+O as result.. in this way if you mantain this stable oxygen atom you don't able to reach thermal explosive energy and your engine don't work. Regards

[TRON]

seems like..

it seems like you guys want to produce enough ionized air to fill the intake manifold... that will not work because the engine will source electrons from the battery back into the ionized air as it passes through the intake manifold, and you will end up with regular ambient air by the time it reaches the piston...

am i not getting it?

the only way this works is if the tubing (approx. 1/2 inch I.D.) is plastic on its way to the nylon enclosure/mixing chamber where the ionized ambient air breaks some of the water mist bonds and then the 3 components travel thru more insulated tubing until they get to the injector. I believe the injector has high voltage as a final whammy on the gass mixture to: #1. keep the fuel gas from stabilizing, #2. finish breaking any remaining bonds that may have reformed along the path to the injector, #3. Act also as a traditional spark plug at the 5 degree ATDC point to combust the mixture.

Am i making sense?

The gas processor is simply a more efficient way of preparing some of the hydroxy ahead of time so that enough fuel can be supplied on demand by the tiny size of the injector...this eliminates the hydrogen cell from the vehicle for safety! This must have been Stan's final design... the one that was so dangerous to the powers that be!

and with 3 VIC coils... one for the GP, one for cyls 1&3 and one for cyls 2&4
very simple!

When you see the Gas Processor mounted under the special air chamber and in the intake air path, you are looking at a very old patent, one of the first ones...but if you look at the Buggy near the end, you notice its mounted on a shelf ahead of the air fan and that theres a 1/2" tube coming off of it... so if you plan on putting the gas processor in the manifold air path.... well i just wanted to make this design point well understood by everyone... and since H2oPower cant reply to every post... hes probably too busy building these things!

Hope this clears things up

Download the MeyersFullData PDF

forget about the patents from 1983!

[CPU3rother]

This is what I was wanting to use; Metal Honeycomb Catalysts | Procucts Infomation | TANAKA KIKINZOKU GROUP

http://www.plascore.com/aluminum-honeycomb-pamg-xr-5052.htm

But I find the pricing to be a bit high for me for right now. My thinking on this was to have at least 1/2 inch deep honeycomb passage ways, more or less the same concept as the catlyic converters for they have a high enough flow rate.
But for starts I am using fine mesh screens. Anyway this is the part where what ever you test out that works best for you is good.

Hope that helps,

h2opower.

I was thinking of cuting up an old radiator.

[tutanka]

HI to all,
I'm here only for obtain an information not for start war..

As you know Thermal explosive energy is important for run engine and when this condition is reached we don't have water vapour as result of combustion. This is possible only if isn't reached equilibrium state on oxygen, for this reason air is destabilize from GP and are strip 4 or more electrons from oxygen. In fact my questions are two for H2OPOWER.

1) GP must every strip 4 electrons to air with not failure, how GP can control and obtain it in real time??

2) When water mist pass trought injector is mixed with air destabilized and exaust gas.. As reaction on HV field is obtain hydrogen biatomic and oxygen not destabilized (not passed trought GP), if this oxygen mantain electrons thermal explosive condition isn't reached and if some electrons are stripped from others oxygen atoms destabilized from GP these atoms of oxygen returns to equilibrium state.. In all case I re-obtain as exaust gas the water vapour.

Can you explain how I have mistake??

Thanks for reply me and sorry for my bad english..

[h20power]

i was going to use stainless steel wool sandwiched between two steel mesh screens. it will compress on the edges as i bolt the flange on the gp.

That sounds too restrictive, remember we don't want the engine sucking air through a straw. If you put too much vacuum force on the intake system it will start to suck oil pass the oil rings, put more strain on the starting system, and a constant high vacuum load on the engine as a whole. There is a reason why K&N air filters are better for an engine increasing engine life for it reduces the work an engine has to do to draw in air.

The reason I want to go with honeycomb passageways is the capacitance can be built up on each of the parallel chambers with a positive charge to more attract the negetive electrons plus give it more time to move towards a positive surface. I know with the mesh screen I will not get the most effective electron collection taking place but due to my bugget I have to start off with that. Catylitic converters have a very high surface area for converting CO's, NO's, and other gases into less toxic versions of the elements by giving it more time to deal with the gases. In my design I don't think I can go more than 2.5 inches deep with the honeycomb design, but when I find something I want to use I will talk with the coating company to see if they can put an electroless nickel plating on it for me, but they have a minimum charge of $130. That way I can go with a plastic substraight for there is no heat where the GP is going to be mounted. Anyway that is the thinking I had behind the choice I made. Feel free to choose any choice you make as this is just my ideas and have to be tested out like all the rest.

Best Wishes everyone,

h2opower.

[rdmwc]

i was going to use stainless steel wool sandwiched between two steel mesh screens. it will compress on the edges as i bolt the flange on the gp.