Water Sparkplug

[jstadwater]

Absolutely, Bill is the one that started us on the "piggy-back" path. Greg, myself, and a few others have been refining and advancing it from the get-go. Now I'm talking to the circuit itself, "You've come a long way, baby!" It's just too much fun to leave it alone!!

Mike

[turbotrana]

Sorry if this is a repost.

Has this thread looked at this guys work.

https://www.skyhero.com

He has a video and has given feedback on running a similar system on his VW. Spark plug wear is obviously high but this can be dealt with iridium or platinum plugs.

I see that this ignition system has great potential for the common internal combustion engine. My own experience with high power ignitions in lean burn engines shows gains in economy/drivability/tuning window to name a few.

[jstadwater]

@ rfsimoes

Hello,

I really don't anticipate any problems in that area, here's why: On the bench I used telephone cord for the "kick" wires at one point, but they were not heavy duty enough to be moved around much. I ended up with a couple broken wires, and then went to a 22 gauge wire for more durability. The wires in the pics are 18 gauge automotive wire which I purchased off the shelf at Advance Auto. The point is this, EVEN with the telephone cord as the "kick", separated into single wires from the normal insulation, I have held those wires in my hand while operating the circuit at 5,800 rpm. I'm not one of those people who have a high resistence to electric shock either. I have been repeatedly bitten by these circuits by accidentally touching a clip or wire end at the wrong time (when there was voltage present! ). I was making connections yesterday with no voltage on the circuit, a screw driver fell off the table and I almost jumped out of my shoes! Testing will always tell, of course, and I'm almost ready to fire this one up, stay tuned.

Mike

[jstadwater]

Hey Greg,

Thanks for those kind comments, and your welcome on the TVS investigation, the show must go on. Haven't heard much from you in a couple days, it's good to see you are still here! The slide resistor I am using now is a 100 watt 100 ohm, Huntington AVT100-100 (Digi-key part number "AVT100-100-ND") As for the TVS diodes, I decided to go ahead and use two in parallel (as you see in the pics) at each spot, before and after isolation transformer. I figured it couldn't hurt anything, and they are only about 50 cents each anyway. I also added in the 1.5KE15A TVS across the 12V cables on the inverter. Just for safety and longevity, I have seen spikes in voltage from alternators before. Ussually not unless the voltage regulator goes bad, but it happens. I just ordered 4 new slide resistors, they are Huntington AVT-100-250, still 100 watt but now 250 ohms so I can play. Same price from Digi-Key as the other one, $9.95. Now, back to the Suburban in here that's Begging for a serious ignition system!

Mike

[gmeast]

slide resistor

Thanks Greg,

Right now I am using a 2.5uF discharge, but thought I might play around a little more and up the dump some. Do you know if the higher resistence will affect the inverter in any way detrimentally? I ordered 4 more slide resistors yesterday of 100 watts and up to 250 ohms, so I'll have a wider range of play. Would having a battery charger hooked to the battery while I'm operating the circuit hurt anything? I got the inverter's red light once yesterday while it was just sitting there idle, low voltage I think from the battery. At least it didn't FRY!!

I am moving forward today with the Suburban 350 install. I may not have the circuit tied up good enough to drive it up the road, but I intend to have it operational and fire up the 350 engine on plasma and see what it's reaction will be. Wish me luck, I'll post updates as I go along. Thanks again to everyone for all the help and great info provided here, be back shortly........................................... ..Mike

Hi Mike,

You may have already posted it but I'll ask ... what is make, model of the 'slide resistor you've been using?

I appreciate the fine work you've done with VexUs. My TVSs will be here on monday and I'll feel confident about investing in another $40.00 inverter for the bug ... everything's waiting for that. Thanks for taking the lead in the TVS investigation.

Peace,

Greg

[rfsimoes]

Wire voltage breakdown

I've run out of time today guys,

Here is a few pics of my install to this point. Notice how close I am installing this to the vehicle's ECM, I think maybe I should build a shield here, just in case I get some kind of spike. Don't want to take any chance of messing up the ECM. Anyway, I will have it done in the morning sometime, if all goes well. Until then, have a good evening everyone..........................Mike

Hi everyone,

jstadwater, the red wire you are using seems to be at best 600V rated.
Directly connected to the plugs you may have a leak to the car body.
If the diodes are between the plug tip and the wire, that's another story.

[jstadwater]

I've run out of time today guys,

Here is a few pics of my install to this point. Notice how close I am installing this to the vehicle's ECM, I think maybe I should build a shield here, just in case I get some kind of spike. Don't want to take any chance of messing up the ECM. Anyway, I will have it done in the morning sometime, if all goes well. Until then, have a good evening everyone..........................Mike

[jstadwater]

That's funny! I don't care who you are. (to quote Larry the cable guy)

Yes, back to work, almost there. A few more connections and a couple temporary mount locations......................................... ........Mike

[NXUS]

Thanks for the feedback, now stop reading this and get back to work we are waiting to hear your "WOOT" when its running in your car

To infinity and beyond!

[jstadwater]

Suburban progress update.................

Progress update,

I now have the wiring atached to the spark plugs and routed to a central location in the engine bay. Now I will work on the transfer of the components from the bench to the engine bay. Like the Energizer bunny.............Stilllllll goin'............................................. Mike

[jstadwater]

@ NXUS

Here is what I have found in my endeavors thus far. I use factory style plug wires for my circuits. These wires have WAY WAY too much resistence for the plasma "effect" to manifest (AT ALL) through. For this reason (and ease of installation) I chose to attach my plasma "kick" wires directly to the spark plug tips, and then shove the plug wire boot back onto the plug tip. No matter how much "juice" I put to the circuit in early testing, the plasma effect will NOT happen through a plug wire's resistence (thus the need also for resistor-less spark plugs). Many will back this up, as they have had the same experiences in their circuits. Since the VexUs circuit ONLY uses the spark plug's normal operation to trigger the plasma "event", and since the plug wires have too much resistence for the plasma energy to come through to the plug, it would stand pretty iron clad to reason that no part of the plasma "event" can travel through the plug wire's resistence to get back to the distributor cap. (Whew, I'm sure that sentance is grammatically incorrect! ) I have pulled my distributor cap and looked, no damage has occurred to the cap and rotor button thus far. This is the beauty of a "piggy-back" system set up in this fashion, NOTHING factory is modified.

As for the NTE517 diodes, I already use two diodes for each cylinder. But, Greg and I came to the conclusion that we are both able to obtain better and more stable results by using the diodes in parallel, not series. I will actually be using three diodes parallel per cylinder for my automotive installs. This will serve to further reduce any heat buildup and aid in adding more longevity to the smooth operation of the circuit. Also diodes in series tend to have voltage drops, more drop the longer the series. As we are using almost all voltage potential and almost no amperage (I think my "kick" wires measure 0.07 amps during operation), any voltage drops are unfavorable to our performance. Keep in mind also, some of the "effects" we are obtaining with some of these circuits, cannot be fully explained to an understandable level using "age old" laws. With new inventions, must come also a new way of thinking, just my two cents. Maybe now I'm the one rambling!

Anyway, I hope at least some of what I tried to explain can make some sort of sense to you. We are all still exploring these circuits and looking forward to any and all ways to implement them into our daily lives to better ourselves and others. Comments and questions are ALWAYS welcome, that's how we figure all this stuff out! Later........................Mike

I will look into the use of the TVS diodes for each leg. Can anyone else verify this and draw into the diagram a good location to install them if need be?

[NXUS]

Just a heads up to those who read my posts and cringe at my spelling or grammar mistakes. I am dislexic and writing is a real chore for me, so please bear with me and I appologize for any stress this may have caused you. As for the therapy bills you incurr as a result of reading my posts...sorry your on your own..

[NXUS]

Hi Mike, I didn't have an epiphany in the shower this morning but a few concerns did surface.

I checked out what the typical gap size and what breakdown voltages are typical for sparkplugs and 2mm gap= ~12Kv. The stearing diodes you are using are rated at 15kv which you would think is ok, except in a distributor based ignition system there are 2 gaps, the other is in the distributor itself. It has a gap of (I am guessing here) about 1 mm = 6kv to pop across, so now we have a total of about 18+kv potential developing before we fire. The coil itself can easily generate about 30kv before the spark is formed. The gap will clamp this voltage but for a short period the line will have the potential to exceed the reverse breakdown of the injection diodes. I think this may be the source of the transients you occasionally experience. I would suggest putting at least 2 of the ntg517 diodes in series at each plug. May be a little more expensive but you should improove the isolation and prevent breakdown effects.

Another niggly that is bothering me is that after the coil fires the arc is formed, the gap impedance drops and then the cdi circuit fires, well if the distributor is still arcing (which is probably the case since this happens real fast) there is still a path back to the coil and I wonder what effect we have on it? Might need to diode steer it also if we are causing the coil some disruption, no facts just wondering!

Sorry for my verbal diareah here, one more observation.

The transient protection devices you are using are perfect if it is the bidirectional ones, the problem is that to properly protect the circuit from common mode and differential spikes you need 3. One across like you have done but also one from each leg to the chassis (ground). We use these on almost every product we make and we have found this to be neccessary to have proper protection.

K..nuff said...

[jstadwater]

@ xVx

I can't see any problems with running a 240 inverter. Just make sure your components are rated WELL above the inverter's output capabilities, and you should be fine. Higher voltage with a smaller uF capacitor works better anyway! Less heat in the circuit, less wear on the plugs, and drops the amperage requirment way down. This is the experience I've had in my tests anyway, which circuit are you building? I am presently using a 120 inverter with a voltage quad setup at above 600VDC, the "effect" at the plug is outstanding! Using either a full wave bridge rectifier OR a voltage doubler, tripler, or quad, will change your voltage back to DC from the inverter's AC. Good luck, and happy testing.............................Mike

[jstadwater]

Thanks Greg,

Right now I am using a 2.5uF discharge, but thought I might play around a little more and up the dump some. Do you know if the higher resistence will affect the inverter in any way detrimentally? I ordered 4 more slide resistors yesterday of 100 watts and up to 250 ohms, so I'll have a wider range of play. Would having a battery charger hooked to the battery while I'm operating the circuit hurt anything? I got the inverter's red light once yesterday while it was just sitting there idle, low voltage I think from the battery. At least it didn't FRY!!

I am moving forward today with the Suburban 350 install. I may not have the circuit tied up good enough to drive it up the road, but I intend to have it operational and fire up the 350 engine on plasma and see what it's reaction will be. Wish me luck, I'll post updates as I go along. Thanks again to everyone for all the help and great info provided here, be back shortly........................................... ..Mike