Water Sparkplug

[Kinetix]

Are you shure your oscilator does not make sine wave oscilations in the secondary winding? If it does, than a full bridge it's the best choice for it.
I have also made a selfoscilator, and monitored the output: it was a perfect sine wave...
Well, our experiences and setups might be diferrent.
All the best.

[Jetijs]

Very nice, Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Jetijs, yes, your oscillator is simple enough. That's fine, but I don't understand why you don't use a full bridge to charge the the cap... I think it will double the eficiency: will shorten the charge time or will charge a bigger cap in the same amount of time. Try it.
All the best.

Hi Kinetix. In a Bedini oscillator you put a DC pulse into the coil, that means that also the output pulse will essentially be a DC pulse, that is why you don't need a brdige rectifier. In fact you can just as well use only one diode and this apears to give a slightly better efficiency.

[jstadwater]

That's COOL Greg,

I agree the oil filled caps are very fast, and they are the ONLY ones I have been able to keep from heating up. Keep up the great work!!

Later..................................Mike

[Kinetix]

Very nice, Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Jetijs, yes, your oscillator is simple enough. That's fine, but I don't understand why you don't use a full bridge to charge the the cap... I think it will double the eficiency: will shorten the charge time or will charge a bigger cap in the same amount of time. Try it.
All the best.

[gmeast]

Caps

Hi all,

I added (back in from test circuit) the 1000uF x 50VDC Cap for the power into the oscillator circuit and the xformer temp dropped dramatically. It is in the foreground of the pic below.

Also, I unplugged the 3uF CDI cap and ran a 22uF cap in its place. It ran perfectly and stayed supported even at high speed .... very intense. I think it may be overkill with the higher voltage so if I 'up' C1, it'll only be to 5uF or 7.5uF. Those oil filled caps are really, really fast ... I love 'em !

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

oscillator

[COLOR="Blue"]Hello to all,

...............................................

@ Greg

YES, I can attest to a cameras inability to capture a good amount of the effect! Ever hear someone say, "The picture just doesn't do it justice"? Great vid BTW, Glad you have it working good in the bug. You are braver than me with that kick wire connection there sparky! They BITE hard, don't they? (good thing there's hardly any amps, huh) I love when the plasma comes on, it takes out all the other sounds the camera can record. Right now, I am still at 2.5uF with no storage cap, charging at about 450VDC, I might try it at 5uF soon. Do you think the oscillator circuit would keep up with my V-8? Or would I need 2?


The more we test, the further we are able to go!! I love this place! Later..................................Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks and yes "owie!". The oscillator I'm using is just something I pulled down from the internet (I'll post it when I catch my breath). To maintain a pump for twice my firing frequency would require some messing around with a bigger transformer (maybe 0.6 Amp) and some screwing around to find the right caps so that the thing doesn't go into resonance (common problem with pushing a transformer with a square wave). I put it together and it worked straight off ... I think I lucked out.

Peace,

Greg

[gmeast]

diodes

How many HV Diodes do You think is optimal for 1 SparkPlug?
Thank, You!

Hi A,

I use diodes in parallel because I try to minimize any cumulative voltage drops in the series systems. With the latest turn-down in brute force I found it satisfactory to use only 2 NTE517's in parallel because the CDI cap is only 3uF and higher voltage ... not much current ... much less heat. That was my conclusion from the bench tests, but I still have 4 (per plug) on the Bug because it's already built (they have a very easy life now).

Peace,

Greg

[jstadwater]

Hello to all,

It seems my compression test with the plasma spark has opened up some some good discussions. I could hardly believe it myself. Thanks everyone for the comments and questions.
@ Jetijs

Congrats on your success with your genset! Thanks also for the great info about the kill switch. The plate I blew up was acrylic, as is the latest one, the new one does not have any of it's thickness removed in the center as the first one did. The polycarbonate is definitely a good suggestion, I will try to find a piece to use instead of the acrylic.

@ xpskid

The normal compression rate for most all factory engines is around 150 psi. So my 125 test wasn't far off from actual running pressure. An average 5.7 liter combustion chamber is about 67cc, so we're dealing with a pretty small area here (even smaller area for a 4 cylinder). As for the dry air vs. moist air effect on the plasma. The plasma, near as I could tell by eye, was the same effect with both moist and dry air. However, when my plate blew out, was the only time I used the moist air straight from the compressor out back. I had already tested multiple times before shooting the vid, using ONLY the three stage filtered dry air from my painter's system. I used that moist air AFTER the first video, it only took a couple seconds and the explosion was with such force, and so LOUD, I'm glad none of the pieces hit me! I was only at 100 psi max available pressure for that test, I don't think it even made to 100 before it blew. I have held an air spray nozzle open attached to the air compressor line with no dryer filters, you can see quite a bit of fine mist (almost like a fog, hint hint) being sprayed out of the nozzle.

@ Gibs

The plasma ball size and brightness BOTH intensify exponentially! I have acetylene goggles and a welding helmet both, I will look through each for next test. Thanks for suggesting that! Maybe I will be able to give a description as to the shape and size of the brightest parts of the plasma. I also have a good vaccum pump, I will see if I can setup that test.

@ Greg

YES, I can attest to a cameras inability to capture a good amount of the effect! Ever hear someone say, "The picture just doesn't do it justice"? Great vid BTW, Glad you have it working good in the bug. You are braver than me with that kick wire connection there sparky! They BITE hard, don't they? (good thing there's hardly any amps, huh) I love when the plasma comes on, it takes out all the other sounds the camera can record. Right now, I am still at 2.5uF with no storage cap, charging at about 450VDC, I might try it at 5uF soon. Do you think the oscillator circuit would keep up with my V-8? Or would I need 2?


The more we test, the further we are able to go!! I love this place! Later..................................Mike

[xpskid]

Hi Greg,

Did you post your new schematic earlier ? Or are you still working on the drawings ?

Regards,

Timm

[Ansis Freimanis]

to carbideTip

Hi! Thank`s for job. It means PlasmaSpark effect is go to "0"? Or near to it? If I ask to You- PlasmaSpark (normal- to atmosferic presure) is 10 points, then Your`s "vacum" is ?
Thanks!

[carbideTip]

Interesting. Very, very interesting. You make a presure big, but if You make a vacum situation? Is it possible to make it in Your lab? I think that is very important- understand 2 phases of ICE working process. I see some experiments in YouTube. The answer in thees videos was lovering of the effect.
Thank, You.

Did minor test under vacuum. 20-30in was hard to get a spark. Once it fired it appeared to prolong the effect.

[Ansis Freimanis]

to Greg

How many HV Diodes do You think is optimal for 1 SparkPlug?
Thank, You!

[Jetijs]

Hi Greg.
This is the basic Bedini self oscillator circuit:



But you should know that I am using this only to make an ordinary spark for my custom ignition/timing system. I still need to use a vexus booster. The Bedini selfoscillator is designed so that it outputs mostly voltage potential from the collapsing magnetic field and just a little current. My setup consumes only 100mA from 12v battery, that is about 1.2w of power and almost the same amount of power we get on the output just with higer voltages. It consumes that power regardless of the load, I can short the output and it will still consume the same power. This small power will not create a strong plasma. Of course it all depends on the coil wire size, winding count and resistor values. It is basically a dc to dc converter. But if you need an output power of 40w or more, I think that your circuit is the way to go

[gmeast]

your oscillator

Just an update.
After I successfully found the optimum timing for my genset using my custom ignition system, I was able to get about 16% fuel economy just by correcting the timing compared to the stock magneto system. Then I just add a HV diode from the positive terminal of the cap to the HV output of the ignition coil like this:


This did intensify the spark, but just a little bit. Because the cap value is not great and they are charged just to about 300V and most of the charge discharges through the ignition coils secondary winding. Nevertheless the small intensified spark gave 2.5% fuel economy ans this time the results are correct. Now I will try to attach the vexus circuit to boost the spark much more and we will see what that does.
Thanks,
Jetijs

Hi J,

I like your oscillator circuit. Where is the oscillator-only circuit? I'm now convinced that we need 'pumps' not inverters ... how 'bout you?

Greg

[Jetijs]

Thanks Rev

For those who experiment with water spark circuit on gensets I found a safety feature on my generator and I am sure that it is so on most of the generators. If I use my custom ignition system, I can run the engine just fine with no load on the generator side. But as soon as I turn on the generator, the engine just shuts down. At first I could not understand why this this is happening, I thought that maybe the timing is wrong. I tried the original magneto ignition again and it just worked fine. Turned out that as soon as I turn the generator side ON, the genset brain checks if the original ignition switch is on or off. In my case it was OFF and the genset thought that there is no point in pumping fuel if there is no ignition, because it does not know that there is a custom one. So if your genset engine turns off when you switch the generator on, then you need to flip the original ignition kill switch to off.
Thanks,
Jetijs