Bedini Solid State Oscillators

[blackchisel97]

bigger coil

Hi all! This is my first post, but i'm familiar with this forum for about two years now.
I just built the Bedini SS device and i'm charging a battery right now with it. I used the same resistor and capacitor values as in the FEG book on page 46. The device uses about 260 to 290mA DC when charging a battery and the output is about 100mA. When the output is not connected, i get 367V pulses on it and the input current rises. If i connect a 220V 20W lightbulb on the output i can see the pulses.

Now i was wondering how big batteries will it charge, 'cause now i'm charging a 44Ah 12v car battery and it seems to go almost nowhere. I'm assuming that it will take 3 to 5 days to charge it, will tell you when it's done.

The transistors and the SRC stay cool all the time, so i think that this circuit can be made to charge atleast twice as fast as it does now (the output could be two to three times higher - up to 1000V). Did anybody tried to improve the circuit that way - would a bigger coil have that effect?

I just hope to find some answers here.
Thx for all the info in this thread!

Dann

Hi Dann
I have built several SS devices in the past 2 years. What I found is that the coil needs to have low impedance. I wound tri filar coil with 100 ft of AWG 18 - like a 1:1 transformer and tried both, normal and inverted trigger. Inverted gives me better charging with lower input. Circuit will start to oscillate at 3V IN which is great if one wants to use a solar panel. It will charge with v. low light! I adjusted trigger withe a help of a scope to see the wave. I put 12V5W automotive bulb in series with 1k 5W pot and trigger. Trying to keep bulb from glowing bright. Circuit draws near 2A at 9V. I just restored 3 small LAB's and working on bigger 1000CCA. Circuit works great. I'm charging off the bridge with 4uF DC cap across. If I take a clamp off the batt. terminal for 1 sec. potential exceeds 600V. Output wires need to be short and good size to lower impedance. I cut open one of the batteries and was able to see what's going on inside. Not everything can be seen


Vtech

[kapierenundkopieren]

Hi Vtech and thanks for your reply! It seems to me that the original circuit should do about half as good as your described circuit - should i simply put an 1k potentiometer instead of the base resistor (2k) and adjust it properly? Would then the radiant charging effect be still present? Right now i can barely light a neon on the battery terminals by holding it by one side.
Do you still use the original (by the FEG book) transistors and SRC in your setup? What wattage are your resistors? Would a heavy duty diode bridge make a difference?

Did you left the bulb in the circuit after adjusting the base resistance or did you took it out?

And by inverted trigger you mean by simply inverting the trigger coil leads?

...one thing that still boggles me is the voltage rating of the 1uf capacitor in the timer part - in the original schematic the voltage is not defined, but in the similar monopole circuit on the yahoo group it is rated 600v... i wonder why - i can only measure a few volts across it.

Thanks again!

Dann

[blackchisel97]

[QUOTE=kapierenundkopieren;109495]Hi Vtech and thanks for your reply! It seems to me that the original circuit should do about half as good as your described circuit - should i simply put an 1k potentiometer instead of the base resistor (2k) and adjust it properly? Yes. I like to have a bulb in series with pot. It helps you tune well since the filament's resistance changes with more current flowing through. Cold filament has low resistance but it will increase and start to glow. this is usually indicator that optimal resistance has been reachedWould then the radiant charging effect be still present?Yes Right now i can barely light a neon on the battery terminals by holding it by one side.
Do you still use the original (by the FEG book) transistors and SRC in your setup?I had built couple cap pulsers. There is a bit "tuning" involved with capacitor and pulsing frequency. If you want to charge battery your capacitor should charge to 2-3V over the battery and get quickly discharge. This timing is very important. However, if you want to desulfate battery, capacitor should be charged to 20-25V before dumping over battery terminals. You have to experiment with different values as well as pulsing frequency and duty cycle of 555. You may need to modify 555 circuit to have wider range. You may find a problem with SCR latching (remaining triggered) due to the large pulse. There are other method of pulsing including Mosfet. What wattage are your resistors?1/4W Would a heavy duty diode bridge make a difference?Your bridge has to be at least 1000V and able to handle those pulses. They are very powerful. I've seen bridge and SCR literally exploding into pieces. Those suggestions are base on my experience.

Did you left the bulb in the circuit after adjusting the base resistance or did you took it out? I left it. I found convenient indicator and sort of a smart fuse, in case of poor connection on the terminal.

And by inverted trigger you mean by simply inverting the trigger coil leads?Not quite, what I meant was connecting coil in Joule Thief fashion. Your trigger coil connected to the primary positive instead of a ground.

...one thing that still boggles me is the voltage rating of the 1uf capacitor in the timer part - in the original schematic the voltage is not defined, but in the similar monopole circuit on the yahoo group it is rated 600v... i wonder why - i can only measure a few volts across it. Yes, and I don't have a clue why. There is no need for hv cap here.

Thanks again!
You're very welcome
Vtech

[kapierenundkopieren]

Strange phenomenon - the radiant is gone

Hi guys, i'm still charging the 44Ah battery with the Bedini SS charger (FEG pg. 46). I was determined to test this system out before moving to a bigger coil. Today it's been 13 days from when i hooked it up (i know - LOL), but it's been charging slowly up and now it's pretty much full.

Today a stange thing occured when i was checking up things around the charger. My setup goes like this: i use a computer PSU and the 12v output goes to a capacitor bank (to smooth the voltage spikes that the SS charger is causing) and to the SS charger input. The SS charger output goes to the battery.
I checked up the battery voltage with a digital multimeter like always, then took a neon bulb by one side and checked to see if it glows on the battery terminals and on the PSU output terminals, also on the capacitor bank and the PSU casing and it did glow everywhere, just like always.
Then i checked also if it glows on the mains ground terminal and it did not and i was askyng myself why the heck is this. The mains ground terminal is connected directly to the PSU casing and the PSU GND output, so i thought it shoud glow there also. Then i took my multimeter, set it on ohm meter and checked the connection from the mains ground to the PSU casing and it did show 0 ohm, just like i thought it should (no flying sparks or anything similar). From that moment on, the radiant effect disappeared from the entire system and now i can't get the neon to glow anywhere anymore. Also the battery voltage jumped up immediately in that instant for 0,05V - or maybe something happened to my multimeter to cause it to display a higher voltage. After that i checked every function of my multimeter and seems to work fine, i also checked the entire system and everything is just like before, but the radiant effect is gone... i still left the system to charge the battery to see if the radiant effect returns... will see tomorrow.

Now why i couldn't get the neon to glow on the mains ground and what could possibly cause the radiant to disappear?

Dann

[kapierenundkopieren]

Me again. I'm a bit surprised to see no replies, i just want to let you know that the bold text in the previous post is there just to highlight things and not to yell or anything similar - this was not my intention.

Anyway, i found out that the battery voltage jump by 0,05V (mentioned in previous post) was real and not caused by any defect of my multimeter.

Two days ago i disconected the charging battery (44Ah) and let it rest about 18 hours. Afterwards i hooked it to a 60W load (car lightbulb) that sucks 5A. The lightbulb shined for 4h 57min before the battery dropped to 10.5V. Before the radiant charging it was doing at best 3h 45min. In base of that i calculated a 32% increase in capacity - not bad for a first time radiant charge - what do you think?

The SS charger still works, but no radiant effect is present. I found out that the BD243c was slightly damaged, but replacing it did not solve the problem, so tomorrow i'll try to replace all of the critical components.

If anyone has any advice or might know what happened in the event described in my previous post, is very welcome to share it here.
I might post the battery charging data if anyone wants to see it.

Dann

[blackchisel97]

[QUOTE=kapierenundkopieren;111247]Me again. I'm a bit surprised to see no replies, i just want to let you know that the bold text in the previous post is there just to highlight things and not to yell or anything similar - this was not my intention. Don't worry, no one would think that

Anyway, i found out that the battery voltage jump by 0,05V (mentioned in previous post) was real and not caused by any defect of my multimeter.

Two days ago i disconected the charging battery (44Ah) and let it rest about 18 hours. Afterwards i hooked it to a 60W load (car lightbulb) that sucks 5A. Be careful with proper load. Batteries don't appreciate being discharged over C20. In case of your 44Ah battery try to keep your load under 2A or even less, since it's very rare that batteries have capacity as advertised. In case of 100Ah you can assume (I hate that word) 75Ah, than calculate C20, which will be 3.25A. Same rule applies for other batteries. Most automotive batteries have their real capacity 20% lower than posted. Also, when your battery reaches say 14.5V, let it rest (ions need some time to slow down unlike electrons) than connect a proper load, such as light bulb,fan and discharge. Try not to discharge under 12.5V unless you're dealing with deep charge batt. Let it rest again and repeat charging process. Battery may need several cycles to become useful again. This is like a formatting process, where battery's plates prickled with short, sharp pulses will change color due to the non conductive layer of sulfur being removed and different crystalline layer will form on their surfaces. This will slightly increase their surface but there is something more happening inside what cannot be seen but battery will reach set point - say 14.5V faster each time. Also, it will go beyond that. I have seen batteries going up to 17V and still climbing. After few cycles they were reaching 16V within 1/2hr, not 6-7hrs as they did at first.
The lightbulb shined for 4h 57min before the battery dropped to 10.5V. Before the radiant charging it was doing at best 3h 45min. In base of that i calculated a 32% increase in capacity - not bad for a first time radiant charge - what do you think? Very nice

The SS charger still works, but no radiant effect is present. I found out that the BD243c was slightly damaged, but replacing it did not solve the problem, so tomorrow i'll try to replace all of the critical components. I didn't read your previous post carefully In my latest SS I use MJE21194. I did use 2N3055, TIP's and other power bipolar transistors before. Since I got those (which are excellent) for my Tesla Switch, Pulsinator and more, I decided to use it in SS. I set aside pulsing circuit for SS since I'll be using cap pulser ( discussed in Tesla Switch thread). I found pulses too powerful for scr to handle without latching itself. Pulser/timer worked fine with mechanical set up and rotor, firing every second (depending on the capacitor used) but I couldn't get to fire properly with 18AWG trifilar.
I remember that I could light a neon with pulser/ timer and mechanical switch. I don't recall having the same effect when charging off the bridge I'll check my SS. I'm puzzled why this effect suddenly disappeared and voltage climb.

If anyone has any advice or might know what happened in the event described in my previous post, is very welcome to share it here.
I might post the battery charging data if anyone wants to see it. Sure, go ahead

[wwdotme]

Hi All

Been awhile since I charged my batteries with other things happening mostly
overtime at work. They had set for 8 months or so and I could not tell you if they where
charged or not when they where left to sit.
So I charged the first one up it hit 15.9 v charging with a rest voltage of about 13.5 volts. Well after running a 1 amp load for 12 hours it was only at 12.94 so I'm letting it run till morning. Getting up early do't want it to drain below 12.5.
My second battery is charging and it is over 15v. So the batteries have held up for not being used for an extended period of time.

<this one is for playing with>
I did finally get a dual rotor ssg done to night but other than looking cool with both rotors spenning I could not tell any real advantage in readings.
But I think my rotors need some work the magnets are probally to close causing me to only get down to 3 pulses at a little over 1 amp.

What would be a way to cut my magnets down? a cut off wheel?

any way night all
Bill

[harz]

... So, what happens to the energy of the inductive collapse in open circuit systems? Maybe there is some discharge through the air or there is a dielectric field buildup. One is for sure the energy of the inductive collapse is not being sinked, stored or converted to magnetic field. Any ideas on this one?

The energy of the collapsing magnetic field in open circuit is consumed very quickly in the resistance of the coil. If the resistance of the coil would be zero and the coil were ideal without any dissipation, then the voltage would surely rise so high that the current of the coil would arc somewhere, I think.

[peter dunbar]

I have been getting interesting results by using a transformer on the mainsm stepping down to around 12volts AC, then a bridge rectifier, on to a beefy IGBT which is given a square wave signal from a commercial signal generator, presently 100 cps, the chopped 12 volts is then fed into a 50 volt to 240 volt transformer, into the 50 volt end, thus getting a high voltage spike from the 240 volt end. The charging of lead acid accumulators and reconditioning, is amazing, however the transformer is losing power when the frequency is raised to say 1000 cps, is there more to be gained pulsing at higher rates? how high should one go? I could get a dust cored transformer if there is more to be gained at higher frequencies. Any answers out there please

due to a lot of experimenting ,I have now moved on to charge my road legal Golf Buggy with the following arrangement, keeping it as simple as possible, I use a variac in the line from the 240 volt mains, this runs through a bridge rectifier to a storage cap, then to a mosfet power switching transistor, this transistor is triggered by a square wave generator with a very short pulse at about 140 chops a second, the chopped DC output then goes through a heavy choke and into the battery, on the way back there is a flywheel diode to the input side of the choke, it has to be quite large. The results have been, no water has been needed for the last 13 months, and will not be needed for some time yet, there is no detectable temperature rise during charging, the DC current into the system is only 3 amps, however at about 222 volts, the charging time equates to about 5 hours for a full charge , the battery is 265 AH supposedly. I hope this may be of interest.

[kcarring]

Hello All,
I have found, in most cases, that self oscillation in the SSG circuit results in a "fuzzy" charge (battery potential rises rapidly but when the battery is load tested, depth of charge is lower than a rotor based SSG). Due to this I found the rest time between pulses provided by a rotor based SSG is important, particularly as the potential of the battery rises above 15v or so, reducing pulse frequency at this point certainly helps charge acceptance and increases the batteries load times. Here is a link to the paper that describes the circuit.

SSG Pulse Generator

Regards Lee.

I tried a couple of variants of the basic bedini circuit in hopes to revive an SLA battery; to no avail.

It may be that it is just too far gone... I had one friend said I need to dissasemble the battery and make sure the water levels were up, too.

Others feel you cannot work with the SLA's period, they only get a fluffy non-existant charge from the circuit, and eventually get destroyed. From my 4 day experiment - I have concluded that in my battery - this was the case. The charge was inconsequential and never took the worn out battery beyond a few tenth's of a volt, when allowed to "settle". It looked good, but it wasn't "real".


I think I will just scrap using the dead batteries and give up on "dead SLA's" - move to LA wet cells. It was a nice thought, but it doesn't seem very "doable".

I've read you can't charge SLA's with "negative energy" it must be "cap pulsed" - and I've read that "it will eventually destroy all SLA's anyway".
All very confusing.

Maybe its back to a rotor based SSG as outlined by J. Bedini, used only on good wet cells. Thing is, I honestly don't see the benefit. Maybe it's all about the free fan action, but.. I don't need a 3 foot high fan in my backshed, no one is in there LOL. You wait way too long and consume about the same energy as you get. Might as well charge normally and just use the thing occasionally as a desulphator?

Cheers & Thanks

[N O G]

Newbe to thead

Hi there everyone
This is a circuit ive been playing with for the last couple of years . Its designed for 12v - 26ah deepcycle batteries with solar input but can be used as a normal charger aswell at 12v (scalable aswell). Jason Schmidt

[ourchoice]

cap pulsar back end

hi randomly has anyone tried using a zener diode to bias base of pnp to trigger cap release at set voltage into charging batt? not sure if will try soon if can find appropriate zeners unless im missing something anyone else can see..

[salman144]

Bedini Solid state Original Version Results

Hi,

I just completed the the Bedini Solid State Original version (page 46).
I used 4n25 opto instead of H11D1.
BD243C is oscillating. 555 Timer is also giving out square wave of around 70ms time period. Output when not connected gives around 130volts maximum as capacitor charges and discharges.
The circuit draws about 0.16 Amps from input and battery charge current is about 0.06 Amps.

Any suggestions to improve the circuit..?

[kapierenundkopieren]

Hi! Your coil might be a bit off, otherwise i can not explain the diferences between my and your build. Did you build the coil by the specs? My coil lenght is 46 meters and it should be pretty close to 450 turns, i calculated it first.

You can alter the base resistance (the 2k) if you want a bit more power, i've set mine to 1,8k. Anyway, if i remember right it takes one or two days to charge up a 7Ah battery and about 14 days to charge a 44Ah one.

I was thinking of building a second more powerfull circuit, but didn't get into it - it would need a new design with different transistors and a new cap dump method (without the SCR).

Dann

[jtanguay]

So on the impedance matching charger it is a trifilar coil. The trigger coil, the 'pulse pickup' coil and then the charging coil.

The trigger coil should be high impedance while the charging coil should be low impedance right? The pulse pickup coil (depicted as being shorter on the spool) should be lower impedance than the trigger coil but higher than the charging coil, or am I wrong?

Thanks for your help