3 Battery Generating System

[Duncan]

Hi Matthew to be quite honest with you this is leaving me a bit stunned at the moment , I’ve never seen a battery frost up before and although there might be some logical explanation as to why the motors speeding up as load is added Its certainly escaping me at the moment.
It seems to automatically re-gauge its self some how. Also changing the batteries around every so often you seem able to keep the batteries at a higher voltage than you actually started with.
I know that’s not a measure of power gain however Its not what I expected to happen at all.
I know you and David have said all along that given the right conditions the unexpected happens with this circuit I just didn't expect it to be that dramatic or pronounced. Its going to take me a little while to get some sort of grasp of this at any level Matt, Just at the moment I don't really believe what’s happening in front of my eyes. I start to see why you and David have kept after it with determination

[Turion]

Everybody,
I know this seems silly, but go back and read through my very first post a couple times until you are really familiar with it. It will really help you in your experimenting. I said you needed a small load on batt three to keep it from charging. I said you needed a load on the motor. Then I said to add a load to batt three and the motor would speed up...wait five minutes and see if the motor would speed up a second time. If it did, you are in the "zone" and the loads (on battery three and the motor) are balanced (which slows down the charging of battery 3). If the motor does not speed up a second time add another load to battery 3 until you get it to speed up TWICE by adding a load.

This was for guys with little or no equipment so they could SEE the reactions and the attempt of the system to somehow achieve that state of balance between the two loads. On my original system, once I got that balance I would go back and forth adding loads first to batt three, and then to the motor. Every time I added a load to batt 3 it increased the speed and the torque of that motor. The TORQUE was unbelievable. I know Luther has seen that and has a "Smoking Glove" video that convinced him of what I'm saying. Adding a load on the motor increased the voltage output from battery 3. I burnt up my voltage regulator because I output too much voltage one time. I could continue to add and add and add going back and forth between the two. I wasn't kidding when I said my real question was what are the upper limits of this setup, because once you reach the limits of your particular motor, just get a bigger motor! You guys with instruments will be able to see this much easier because it will show up on a scope. I wonder if we could put two scopes and get a perfect match between battery three and the motor and that would solve all the issues.

[LutherG]

The Smoking Glove

Everybody,
I know this seems silly, but go back and read through my very first post a couple times until you are really familiar with it. It will really help you in your experimenting. I said you needed a small load on batt three to keep it from charging. I said you needed a load on the motor. Then I said to add a load to batt three and the motor would speed up...wait five minutes and see if the motor would speed up a second time. If it did, you are in the "zone" and the loads (on battery three and the motor) are balanced (which slows down the charging of battery 3). If the motor does not speed up a second time add another load to battery 3 until you get it to speed up TWICE by adding a load.

This was for guys with little or no equipment so they could SEE the reactions and the attempt of the system to somehow achieve that state of balance between the two loads. On my original system, once I got that balance I would go back and forth adding loads first to batt three, and then to the motor. Every time I added a load to batt 3 it increased the speed and the torque of that motor. The TORQUE was unbelievable. I know Luther has seen that and has a "Smoking Glove" video that convinced him of what I'm saying. Adding a load on the motor increased the voltage output from battery 3. I burnt up my voltage regulator because I output too much voltage one time. I could continue to add and add and add going back and forth between the two. I wasn't kidding when I said my real question was what are the upper limits of this setup, because once you reach the limits of your particular motor, just get a bigger motor! You guys with instruments will be able to see this much easier because it will show up on a scope. I wonder if we could put two scopes and get a perfect match between battery three and the motor and that would solve all the issues.

Hi Guys,

Please read posts #14 and #928. Post #928 has a link to a youtube video I put up illustrating how the torque of the motor increases with load on battery #3. You can see that as I apply more physical load to the motor shaft, the voltage rises, illuminating the car lights and bringing the voltage up on battery #3 to the point where it will support the inverter...

Now imagine that physical load being a genhead...

Cheers,

Luther

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Matthew to be quite honest with you this is leaving me a bit stunned at the moment , I’ve never seen a battery frost up before and although there might be some logical explanation as to why the motors speeding up as load is added Its certainly escaping me at the moment.
It seems to automatically re-gauge its self some how. Also changing the batteries around every so often you seem able to keep the batteries at a higher voltage than you actually started with.
I know that’s not a measure of power gain however Its not what I expected to happen at all.
I know you and David have said all along that given the right conditions the unexpected happens with this circuit I just didn't expect it to be that dramatic or pronounced. Its going to take me a little while to get some sort of grasp of this at any level Matt, Just at the moment I don't really believe what’s happening in front of my eyes. I start to see why you and David have kept after it with determination

The Mad Doctors evil laugh

Its a complete negative response in battery 3. It completely flips the energy while the energy remains a dipole. You have positive coming down the line into the battery and you have negative leaving. A complete negative!!!

If you were to talk on the quantum physics of it, if the power were still based in a forward time state it would still not be able to charge the primaries the power is completely negative in both polarity, time, and state. Positive energy gives you HEAT.......

Matt

[Duncan]

Hi Guys,

Please read posts #14 and #928. Post #928 has a link to a youtube video I put up illustrating how the torque of the motor increases with load on battery #3. You can see that as I apply more physical load to the motor shaft, the voltage rises, illuminating the car lights and bringing the voltage up on battery #3 to the point where it will support the inverter...

Now imagine that physical load being a genhead...

Cheers,

Luther

Hi Luther I pushed off to have a look at your video alas -- "This video is private"

[Turion]

Just talked to Luther on the phone and he will fix that tonight. Back to winding or should I say REwinding my motor.
Dave

[Duncan]

Just talked to Luther on the phone and he will fix that tonight. Back to winding or should I say REwinding my motor.
Dave

David & Luther

[LutherG]

Problem fixed...

David & Luther

Hi Guys,

Ok - the videos are now public. Here are the links in one handy place:

First recording of the system:

VID-20120216-00002.3GP - YouTube

The smoking glove:

The Smoking Glove.3GP - YouTube


Cheers,

Luther

[Turion]

Thanks Luther.
That first video is kinda "textbook" behavior for this system. Can't wait to see some NEW videos of your setup, so get to work! LOL.

Dave

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Have been having a lazy day today as I have not been to well, so I thought I would set this all up and run a full log of tests. I will post a little later as I am going to eat. The tests are interesting and Duncan seems to be right, battery 3 gets cold, very interesting.

Mike

[Turion]

So we solve the Energy crisis AND have a solution for global warming (millions of 3BGS's cooling down the planet!) Good for us!

I have a lazer thermometer and will check temp readings on batteries next time I run a test. Finished winding my motor but still have to put it back together. Gonna wind a second pulse motor so I have a spare. And have two more on the way.

Dave

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Results

OK here are some test results

Main battery LA 12v 4.2Ah, starting voltage 12.27v
Battery "3" 12v LA in very bad condition "will not hold charge"
Salt bridge connected between Batt:3 and negative of run battery
Motor capstan drive PM motor 12-18v
Additional load on batt:3 = 12v, 3w bulb "resistive load" (250ma @ 12v)146ma real @ 7v

Total running time 2hrs

Start A B C D

Batt:3 7.00v 6.97 7.24 7.00
Amp draw 154ma 153.8 152/54 148
Main batt: 12.27v 12.26 12.24 12.00
Salt bridge 0.97v 1.7 2.7 2.7

Other notes

I have not used two drive batteries as there is only needed a potencial difference, and in this case running was 12.27-7 = 5.27v

The motor was loaded to give a near steady voltage on Batt:3 of 7v with the 12v 3w bulb as load on that battery.

voltage across motor (eratic) 1.77-1.85v (loaded) barly running 2c/sec
Voltage across salt bridge and main battery 9.57v
voltage across Batt:3 and salt bridge 9.7v
Salt bridge drops in temperature
Salt bridge when up to 2.7v gave gas off only on one cathode, remember it is connected between the two negatives of the two batteries, gas bubbles tend to leave the cathode and move for other cathode but move in a circular rotaion. ( This is what would be happening in the battery if the salt bridge was not there ).

Now the salt bridge gives us an insite into what is happening inside the batteries "both batteries". You will see that with the Batt:3 it is like another series cell inside that battery and the voltages add up, but with the main battery it is negative to the last cell and so gives a reading of the true battery voltage less the salt bridge voltage.

I will continue this tomorrow when my head is a little clearer on exactly what is happening.
Using a higher battery differentcial might give different results, but I don't think so, this is set up to see what is happening as far as battery chemistry.

Mike

[Duncan]

help

OK here are some test results

Main battery LA 12v 4.2Ah, starting voltage 12.27v
Battery "3" 12v LA in very bad condition "will not hold charge"
Salt bridge connected between Batt:3 and negative of run battery
Motor capstan drive PM motor 12-18v
Additional load on batt:3 = 12v, 3w bulb "resistive load" (250ma @ 12v)146ma real @ 7v

Total running time 2hrs

Start A B C D

Batt:3 7.00v 6.97 7.24 7.00
Amp draw 154ma 153.8 152/54 148
Main batt: 12.27v 12.26 12.24 12.00
Salt bridge 0.97v 1.7 2.7 2.7

Other notes

I have not used two drive batteries as there is only needed a potencial difference, and in this case running was 12.27-7 = 5.27v

The motor was loaded to give a near steady voltage on Batt:3 of 7v with the 12v 3w bulb as load on that battery.

voltage across motor (eratic) 1.77-1.85v (loaded) barly running 2c/sec
Voltage across salt bridge and main battery 9.57v
voltage across Batt:3 and salt bridge 9.7v
Salt bridge drops in temperature
Salt bridge when up to 2.7v gave gas off only on one cathode, remember it is connected between the two negatives of the two batteries, gas bubbles tend to leave the cathode and move for other cathode but move in a circular rotaion. ( This is what would be happening in the battery if the salt bridge was not there ).

Now the salt bridge gives us an insite into what is happening inside the batteries "both batteries". You will see that with the Batt:3 it is like another series cell inside that battery and the voltages add up, but with the main battery it is negative to the last cell and so gives a reading of the true battery voltage less the salt bridge voltage.

I will continue this tomorrow when my head is a little clearer on exactly what is happening.
Using a higher battery differentcial might give different results, but I don't think so, this is set up to see what is happening as far as battery chemistry.

Mike

Hi Mike very nice to see you on thread, I have it in mind to wind … oh yawn another coil for this thing, What I have in mind is rather more in your bailiwick than mine. I have PM,d you what I have in mind I would appreciate your appraisal … and thum sums
Amigo

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Continuation

OK here is more.

I wanted to prove a point that I had in my mind as to what is happening, here is the simple addition:-

I increased the main battery voltage by connecting in series two ni cad packs of 2.4v each "I was prepared to sacrifice them all in the cause". So we have the 12v LA battery and two nicad packs @2.4v all in series = 4.8v + 12.27 = 17.07v total.

The system is run as before and not real change as expected, but what I wanted to prove is that some of the cells in the run batteries reverse polarity, and gess what "I was right ". After 1hr of run time I switch off and disconnected the ni cads and tested for voltage and polarity, they had switched polarity and showed a negative of 2.93v on the positive terminal.

Now I then let them rest for 1hr more and tested again, the polarity had reversed back and showed a positive of 1.9v on the positive terminal. This was yesterday and I have just measured the ni cads again, they now measure a positive of 3.51v on the positive terminal.

So what do we have!! we have certain cells "in your case" in the LA drive batteries changing polarity while running, and then after a time, reversing back. This is in the battery chemistry of ionic movement between charge and discharge "electrons move in different directions". This is why I could see the electron movement in the salt bridge but only gas produced on the one cathode, "this is what is happening in the battery cells". LA's are normally 6 X 2v cells in series, some where in the bank of 12 cells "24v" the polarity is changing "they are becoming charging cells and gasing".

If you look at the current draw from the positive terminal of the main battery, when tested also on the current draw from the 3rd battery back to the main battery, they were the same 154ma out and 154ma in "discharge and charge you might say". But we have the motor running and a load on the third battery. The bulb was drawing near the same current as the draw current from the run battery 145ma +- as it is a calculation 7/12 X 250 = 145.83ma.

My third battery did not charge above the 7v.

I would like to try exactly what Dave or Matt is using and run the same tests, but I really don't think the results would change.

Bottom line is:-

1. there might be a charge influence from the motor "this would be small but needs to be tested"

2. ELECTRONS ARE BEING USED TWICE OVER TO LIGHT THE BULB, this I will explain at a later date, but believe me it is true.

. Therefore whatever you draw current wise with the motor and the bulb, the electrons are flowing back into the reverse polarty cells and charging by using the electrons a secound time before they are lost.

This is where your energy gain is and can only be done through ionic conduction.

Mike

[Duncan]

a different drummer. ?

Wow Mike all I can say is some people march to the tune of a different drum ! I know you to be one of the sharpest pencils in the box but I cant help but feel you’ve missed this target by a country mile!. I'm just a tenderfoot here so I really have no room to comment but three different batteries not only different but different types?
You must have an idea at the back of your mind and I know you well enough to consider it probably works , however it sounds nothing like what I’ve just seen and these guys are describing and doing.
It'll all come out in the wash !!
Best wishes Duncan