3 Battery Generating System

[fathershand]

Thanks

OK, Dave. I get it. Thank you!

Did you try the diodes too?
Tony

[Turion]

I didn't. I still don't have two good wing batteries. I may try diodes in the morning before I go pick up all my dead batteries, but don't want to take my setup apart to insert them if I have good "dead " batteries on the way, so may just wait. If nothing pans out with all my new dead batteries, I'll give the diodes a shot.

Dave

[fathershand]

More Wing Batteries

Dave, yes I understand about finding proper wing batteries. Take you test light and good battery and test them BEFORE bring them home.

You'll find it if you don't give up.

[fathershand]

Theory of Operation

Matt, are you still with us?

Can you please post your theory of operation for your latest schematic? I am trying to understand how it seems to work.

Thanks
Tony

[Matthew Jones]

Matt, are you still with us?

Can you please post your theory of operation for your latest schematic? I am trying to understand how it seems to work.

Thanks
Tony

So you have to understand a forced charge on a capacitor plate to understand why I think this works.

Your power is coming out of the 24v bank of good batteries. It goes to the center battery of the three dead batteries. At that point we keep about 15 volt or so on the dead center battery. Like wise the 3 dead batteries are serialized. So the plate that are connected to the center battery have a charge. They force the unconnected plates on the very edge to gather a charge.
Mind you sulphation on a battery acts as a capacitor.

So when enough of this charge is gathered it jumps out back into the system and whatever point you allow it.

The reason both end of the serial dead bank can deposit into the serial position of the good battery and not cause a problem is because neither set of plates will discharge at the same time. Only one will go over the top enough to redeposit the power because of the oscillation caused in the motor.

At least that is the way I see it.

Matt

[Turion]

And without that sulfation on the plates (BAD, BAD, BAD) batteries, they just increase in voltage and the "jump" does not happen. The outside batteries just charge up and the primaries drain.

Matt,

There is something happening to the bottom battery of the three BAD batteries in series that does not seem to be happening to the top battery. I had some good candidates for bad batteries...zero voltage, wouldn't start the system (EVER...or at least not in a 24 hour period that I waited on them) when connected as battery three, and wouldn't turn on a light when used between a good battery and a bulb in fathershand's "switch" test. I put one of them in the top 'wing" position and after running for a few hours it was only at one volt. I moved that same battery to the bottom wing position, connected it up, and it immediately jumped to around 10 volts. Every battery I have put in the bottom position has jumped in voltage like that and reversed polarity to boot. I have been able to put three different batteries in the top wing position and they don't jump in voltage like this. It is only the bottom wing that I cannot get a battery to keep from charging to up around 10 or 11 volts and holding charge when disconnected. Also, when I first connect a dead battery in the top position, I notice that it is immediately reversed in polarity on the analogue gauge connected to it, but the minute you start the system up, it becomes positive and reads a volt or so. The battery in the bottom position reads negative on the analogue gauge and STAYS negative when it jumps up in voltage after the system is started up. You wouldn't notice these changes unless you had an analogue meter because with analogue it tries to make the needle go the wrong way. With digital, you get the minus sign before the number, which I get too, but is easy to ignore. When your meter tries to go the wrong way, it's NOT easy to ignore. This is running schematic 6 without the diodes in place.


Dave

[fathershand]

Capacitor and Radiant Energy

So you have to understand a forced charge on a capacitor plate to understand why I think this works.

Your power is coming out of the 24v bank of good batteries. It goes to the center battery of the three dead batteries. At that point we keep about 15 volt or so on the dead center battery. Like wise the 3 dead batteries are serialized. So the plate that are connected to the center battery have a charge. They force the unconnected plates on the very edge to gather a charge.
Mind you sulphation on a battery acts as a capacitor.

So when enough of this charge is gathered it jumps out back into the system and whatever point you allow it.

The reason both end of the serial dead bank can deposit into the serial position of the good battery and not cause a problem is because neither set of plates will discharge at the same time. Only one will go over the top enough to redeposit the power because of the oscillation caused in the motor.

At least that is the way I see it.

Matt

Since your explanation suggests that the accumulator batteries act as capacitors, why wouldn't replacing them with capacitors work?

Also, do you think the motor is producing radiant energy in the back spikes? If so, how are they affecting the voltage in the batteries?

Does having more good series batteries affect the way that the circuit is suppose to work? For example, some motors require more voltage to get the performance the motor was designed for.

Thanks for your time.
Tony

[Turion]

Ran the standard circuit without the diodes, and my primary batteries went down running a 7 1/2 watt load off the inverter for two hours. The bottom battery was up around 10 volts the whole time, and switched polarity.

Matt, Does your bottom battery switch polarity?

Running Matt's circuit with the diodes now. The lower battery does NOT jump up in voyage with this arrangement, although it still switches polarity. It is sitting at just a couple volts. I only just started it, so will let it run for a couple hours and see what happens. I am only able to run a 7 1/2 watt load off the inverter with this setup. I don't have my motor geared the way Matt did, just 1:1 gearing. Will have to order some gears.

David

[citfta]

David,

If you have another setup you can run or after you get done with what you are running can you try another idea I just had. I will try it myself as soon as I can get my batteries recharged. I ran them down trying different ideas today. Anyway here is the idea. Instead of connecting the bottom bad battery like you have been doing which causes it to reverse charge connect it this way. Connect it across the main motor with the positive connected to the positive of your good batt on the right in Matt's drawing and with the negative connected to the positive of what was the middle bad batt. In other words we would be running the main motor in parallel with this batt just like we are running the inverter in parallel with the original bad batt. With my setup like Matt's drawing I am really pulling down the good batt on the right and not dropping the good batt on the left hardly at all. I am hoping this new idea might help to keep both good batts up.

Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

@All

I am real busy at the moment, I'll try to get back to you soon as I can.

Matt

[fathershand]

Nomenclature

Matt, I would like to advocate for a change in our nomenclature for the batteries. Since there has been an evolution in this circuit, the nomenclature we are using for the batteries is confusing. The upper right battery, the middle bad battery, bad battery #1, wing battery, good battery 2, etc. is confusing and therefore counter-productive.

Can we please release a revised schematic using the following suggested nomenclature for the batteries?

Good batteries become Primary P1, P2, etc.
Bad batteries become Accumulator A1, A2, A3, etc.

I will be happy to make the change to the schematic if Dave and Matt agree, and would like me to do it.

Thanks
Tony

[Turion]

Did a 90 minute run. Lost a tenth on each of the primaries running a 7 1/2 watt load on the inverter and running the motor with 1:1 gearing to generator. Used the schematic with diodes. Bottom battery switched polarity, but stayed at around one volt or less. Top battery did not switch polarities and stayed less than one volt.

Carroll,
My batteries are run down too! Got them on the charger. Once they are charged up, will give that a try. Let me know how it goes and I will replicate.

fathershand,
That's fine with me. Might make life simpler. I would label the good battery on the left as P1, in case we end up with numbers three four and five we don't have to change anything...just add on.

Remember...in post 763 Matt had a stable setup running WITHOUT DRAWING DOWN on the main batteries. We all should strive to replicate that. That has been my goal. After that I will try all kinds of things...

[Turion]

All,
As per usual, I posted the latest schematic at the bottom of the first page. I went ahead and added the designations P1 and P2 for Primaries 1 and 2 and A1, A2, and A3 for Accumulators 1, 2, and 3. Hope the use of those designations and terms will clarify things for some people if we all start using them. LOL

Off to the basement for the rest of the day. Cifta, haven't hear how that idea worked out for you. I got enough wire ends to put together two more complete setups, and already have the motors. Just don't know if I have enough dead batteries for three! Got four yesterday that only showed milivolts, but you never know....

Dave

[citfta]

Hi David,

I only had time for a very short run this morning. We have a very sick granddaughter and I had to watch her sister while my wife took the sick one to the Dr. I found that now I am losing the same amount on both batteries with the dead ones connected like I wanted to try. Also the lose seems to be less. I did not have time to try and get my loads balanced like they should be to not lose on the primary batts. I also discovered my "bad" batt I was using with the inverter is now charging right up so that also explains why I am losing on the primary batts. I went to the salvage yard yesterday to get some more batts but they told me they had just sent off a whole pallet load last week. They only had one car batt that was showing a good charge and a large truck batt that I don't have room to use. I have several 7 AH batts so I may have to start looking through them for a suitable batt. I was hoping to stay with the lawn and garden size batts but may have to at least try something else.

Have you tried a totally dead batt in parallel with the inverter? I tried that for a while yesterday but it was very hard to get the loads balanced and that was when I blew my inverter and had to stop and fix it.

Later,
Carroll

[fathershand]

Nomenclature 2

All,
As per usual, I posted the latest schematic at the bottom of the first page. I went ahead and added the designations P1 and P2 for Primaries 1 and 2 and A1, A2, and A3 for Accumulators 1, 2, and 3. Hope the use of those designations and terms will clarify things for some people if we all start using them. LOL

Off to the basement for the rest of the day. Cifta, haven't hear how that idea worked out for you. I got enough wire ends to put together two more complete setups, and already have the motors. Just don't know if I have enough dead batteries for three! Got four yesterday that only showed milivolts, but you never know....

Dave

Thanks, Dave for posting the revised schematic. If you use those designations on your videos, the new naming will catch on and clarity will break out, and there will be a tremendous beak-thru, and your bald-spot will go away, and your wife will get a raise, and your mother-in-law will remember your name, and ..... Well, maybe your bald spot won't actually go away.

Tony