3 Battery Generating System

[Mario]

@Mario,


Hopefully, the thread stays on topic.



Would you mind addressing the above comments?

Aaron, was my post not on topic? What part exactly do you want me to comment?

Mario

[Aaron]

NROC's comment

Aaron, was my post not on topic? What part exactly do you want me to comment?

Mario

Mario,


Of course your post is on topic - extremely on point.



NROC has a bit different perspective on what you posted - that's all I was pointing out if you could comment on what he said.

[Netica]

Hi Turion,

I am interested to know the dimensions of the coil holder.
Matt has said his was 3.25inch tall and 3.5inch wide. (using tall and wide I didn't find descriptive enough).

Can you please let me know what diameter it is and the overall length and the thickness of the sides. And whether it is completely full of winding or if there is space left for more.
I am sure we could make them a bit wider or longer however it would be good to know what you have done as a starting point.

Can you please let me know the diameter of the 6013 welding rods used and how you held them in the core. I am expecting that the diameter doesn't really matter but would be good to know what you have done.

Also you have given different reports of wire length, being at first
12 strands of #23 253 in length and then
12 strands of @23 153 in length.
I was wondering which is correct.
I would expect that things don't have to be perfectly the same but there is probably an incorrect recollection with one of these and it would be good to know which is correct.

Thanks for help

[Mario]

I disagree that the reactance becomes infinite in a resonance condition for any coil with inductance and capacitance. The reactance is still zero in the parallel resonance condition its just that the impedance goes to maximum because the currents are bouncing back and forth between the capacitive and inductive portions of the circuit. Because the currents bounce back and forth between L and C that portion of the circuit looks like an open circuit to the source and only the resistive part of the impedance exists. That is - that the resistive part of the impedance goes to maximum but the reactance still goes to zero.

I dont have any experience building these coils into motors I have never tried it so I wont comment anymore on that. I do however have a lot of experience with Tesla's coils and building resonant transformers and that is why i wanted to correct your statement. In fact, if you build a coil that utilises a parallel resonance condition and make the coil in such a way that the magnetic fields can cancel one another as the currents oscillate between L and C you will produce a longitudinal wave with the addition that you must suppress any radiation as EM waves (no sparks). Bifilar coils work well and mobius coils inherently do this. it can also be done with normal solenoids and pancake coils. The tricky part is detecting them which cant be done with normal RF antennas. Anyway this is a topic probably meant for a different thread.

Hi Nroc,

I used the term reactance incorrectly you are right, I meant the reactive part of the impedance goes to zero inside the tank at resonance, which to the source looks as maximum impedance though.
In the case where the source of the parallel tank(like a bifilar coil or a normal coil with parallel cap) is magnetic, such as the passing magnet, at resonance you have the point of maximum CEMF against the magnet, which bring the rotor to an abrupt decrease in rpm.

When talking about bifilar coils I didn't mean coils that cancel their magnetic field and produce longitudinal waves. I'm talking about two parallel wound wires which are then connected in series, the start of one wire connected to the end of the other wire. You seem to be talking about a bifilar where the 2 ends are connected, which results in a magnetic field canceling coil.

All this just to say that a bifilar series coil behaves just like a normal coil with an added parallel capacitor, except for the much lower Q.

cheers,
Mario

[jimboot]

Hey Aaron, you're a smart a guy with great marketing chops. That's a compliment from someone who knows one. Look at it this way, for a product to sell it needs authority and trust. I know you know this. These days though with social media trust has to be earned. Verified Testimonial platforms is a huge business. Trust Pilot, Judge.me, Yotpo, Google the list goes on. Like many of us here I've built a bunch of things which never lived up to claims on the package.

The Internet has evolved and more than ever extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So for me personally I wouldn't blame a bloke if they third party verification of an effect. I only work on replications from other builders who's work I'm familiar with and trust or others work that is recommended by them.

Seems to get a lot more heated in here these days.

[NROC]

Hey Mario

Hey Mario

Ah okay no worries I get you, yeah we are talking about slightly different things.

Hope your good

[Turion]

Coils

Ok, rather than rely on imperfect memory, which I have done in the past, I went back and actually LOOKED at my notebook. I used 12 strands 253’ long of #23. If I said anything else, I apologize and I need to correct it. My original coil was 3 strands of 800 feet (not 1000 as I have said recently) so 2,400 feet of wire and the coil was pretty full. If you do the math you will see the numbers I have given add up to over 3,000 feet of wire on the coil. Over the course of several builds I worked my way up to that final number OF WHICH I used 18” of wire on each end of the coil to run to my connections and it completely fills the bobbin. I will post a link to where I got the bobbins later today, and get you the dimensions. But I will say this in advance. Anyone who has access to a 3D printer would be better off printing their own bobbin with square ends. For some reason the coils want to rotate, and if not held securely, they WILL, and pull the wires loose. I learned this the hard way. Round bobbins in round holes can rotate. Square bobbins in square holes cannot.


EDIT:
Link
Wire Spools Reels ? Pittsfield Plastics Engineering, Inc.

3 1/2" diameter
3 1/4" length
3/4" hole for core
I realize those are not the technical terms, but that's what I got.

[Aaron]

testimonials

Hey Aaron, you're a smart a guy with great marketing chops. That's a compliment from someone who knows one. Look at it this way, for a product to sell it needs authority and trust. I know you know this. These days though with social media trust has to be earned. Verified Testimonial platforms is a huge business. Trust Pilot, Judge.me, Yotpo, Google the list goes on. Like many of us here I've built a bunch of things which never lived up to claims on the package.

The Internet has evolved and more than ever extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So for me personally I wouldn't blame a bloke if they third party verification of an effect. I only work on replications from other builders who's work I'm familiar with and trust or others work that is recommended by them.

Seems to get a lot more heated in here these days.

Hi Jim,


There have been times in this forum in the past it got so hot it almost melted. lol - for this particular topic, I've been personally involved with these concepts for a while and have seem various iterations work as claimed too many times and find it nearly impossible how anyone can doubt what seems so obvious.

I started a new thread here if you can respond to me there regarding the Testimonials - please tell me more.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/21114-validating-claims.html

[Netica]

coils

Ok, rather than rely on imperfect memory, which I have done in the past, I went back and actually LOOKED at my notebook. I used 12 strands 253’ long of #23. If I said anything else, I apologize and I need to correct it. My original coil was 3 strands of 800 feet (not 1000 as I have said recently) so 2,400 feet of wire and the coil was pretty full. If you do the math you will see the numbers I have given add up to over 3,000 feet of wire on the coil. Over the course of several builds I worked my way up to that final number OF WHICH I used 18” of wire on each end of the coil to run to my connections and it completely fills the bobbin. I will post a link to where I got the bobbins later today, and get you the dimensions. But I will say this in advance. Anyone who has access to a 3D printer would be better off printing their own bobbin with square ends. For some reason the coils want to rotate, and if not held securely, they WILL, and pull the wires loose. I learned this the hard way. Round bobbins in round holes can rotate. Square bobbins in square holes cannot.


EDIT:
Link
Wire Spools Reels ? Pittsfield Plastics Engineering, Inc.

3 1/2" diameter
3 1/4" length
3/4" hole for core
I realize those are not the technical terms, but that's what I got.

Thanks Turion for this clarification.

Regarding the welding rods do you just take off the flux and epoxy them into the bobbin. Or is heat a problem here and the glue melts. or do you press them in? Do you coat them? Is there a better size to use as they come in different diameters? or anything will do?

Thanks for all your help.

[Turion]

Stuff

There is a supply warehouse that I get 3/16 steel rod in 8' lengths and I cut it to whatever length I want. I sand it while it is still in the long pieces to remove any oil or sticky stuff, and then paint it. I epoxy it into the core, otherwise the magnets will yank it out. That I can promise you!

I'm sure you could use welding rod, which is what I USED to use until I ran across the slightly smaller rod in these nice long pieces. I want the smallest rod I can find so the air spaces are as small as possible.

Hope that helps

[Netica]

Thanks again Turion, I mentioned welding rods because that is what Matt mentioned to use - 6013 welding rods cleaned of their flux.

[Mario]

Hi Aaron,

I have a question. In his "SG beyond" presentation Peter showed a 3 battery system (24V each) where the 2 series batts run the load into a single battery, and then they get rotated, which is basicallly what John's first 3 battery diagram was showing.
In Peter's Benitez presentation he showed a 3 battery system (12V each) where 2 series batts run the load into 2 parallel batts (Benitez style) instead of just into one.
Do you know which one of the 2 setups worked best for him?

cheers,
Mario

[Turion]

3 Battery vs Benitez

Both will work if you have the right equipment. Both will fail with small batteries. Matt built working Benitez systems YEARS ago. The problem is, per kilowatt hour of energy, solar is CHEAPER.

[Aaron]

SG battery swap vs Benitez

Hi Aaron,

I have a question. In his "SG beyond" presentation Peter showed a 3 battery system (24V each) where the 2 series batts run the load into a single battery, and then they get rotated, which is basicallly what John's first 3 battery diagram was showing.
In Peter's Benitez presentation he showed a 3 battery system (12V each) where 2 series batts run the load into 2 parallel batts (Benitez style) instead of just into one.
Do you know which one of the 2 setups worked best for him?

cheers,
Mario

Hi Mario,


I'll elaborate a bit.



With both, the batteries will eventually go down, but it proves the extended running times and with extended running times, the rated capacity is exceeded, which proves the point. If you get more running time than the total capacity provides at the start, then it is still over 1.0 of course.



The Benitez on in particular is not to make free energy claims, but was to show the wiring setup and how to connect everything. There may be later demos with more appropriate batteries as time permits.



It is important to point that that those batteries are all junk Walmart garden starter batteries and are the worse possible ones to use but they still did the job. They're from older project and are badly abused. The Bedini 2A12 did revive them the best they can be but for anyone wanting to get the best results - deep cycles and big ones, not small starter batteries. I'm sure you already know.



Here is something very important I want to bring up that I was reminded of recently.



Let's say you have a 10 coiler SG and you put a small 12v battery on the front and charge the same on the back. If the battery is big enough to deliver the current, it will run fine and if you disconnect the output batteries, the neon bulbs will light up since the radiant has to go somewhere.



If you take the same machine and put very large batteries on it and do the same on the back - run the machine, it's not going to draw more than it did with smaller batteries, but if you unhook the output batteries, the neons won't just flash, every transistor will explode from a pressure explosion because of all the extra radiant available by using the low impedance batteries. Same voltage and same current with small or big 12 v batteries, so why such a violent explosion when using the big ones? That is all the radiant gain that isn't possible with small batteries no matter how good of a build a machine is.



So just to emphasize, not really to you Mario because you already know, but anyone that thinks the recommendation to use big batteries from David and many others over the years is not that important, it makes ALL the difference in the world between having a machine that just demonstrates some interesting concept vs having a machine where you are able to demonstrate free energy by many hundreds of percent.



Mario, here is the battery method John Bedini used on a self running SG setup that ran and kept itself charged up, just for a short period of time but indefinitely and it did this better than any other method. This was with the clear plastic wheel SG where the magnets were on the face of the rotor instead of around the peripheral.



I think it was this machine:






On the back end, he kept several batteries and not just one to match how many were on the front. Let's say there are 4 - he was using those old clear case batteries from the Korean war - and those are crappy batteries to begin with. If there are 4 on the back and 1 on the front, when the front runs down, he swaps it with one of the batteries on the back, then repeats, it is the same battery position on the back that is swapped while the other 3 stay charged up and do not get swapped.



He was doing that back around 2002 or so. Not a single battery ever needed to be hooked back to a charger as it literally, kept itself charged up and that was that. It ran so long John got tired of it but that was the best self-running method I think he ever came up with. I saw this and so did Peter.



So with any variation of the 3 battery methods, there can be extra batteries in parallel so it needs to be tried. If you have a few batteries that are topped up in position #3, then there is less potential difference between 1 & 2 in series, which seems to defeat the purpose, but before I say more, I'll run this by someone on what is the best method to apply this kind of concept here.


So what works best - I'd say if each had appropriate batteries, then the Benitez one is the one that will perform better but don't quote me on that.

[Mario]

On the back end, he kept several batteries and not just one to match how many were on the front. Let's say there are 4 - he was using those old clear case batteries from the Korean war - and those are crappy batteries to begin with. If there are 4 on the back and 1 on the front, when the front runs down, he swaps it with one of the batteries on the back, then repeats, it is the same battery position on the back that is swapped while the other 3 stay charged up and do not get swapped.

He was doing that back around 2002 or so. Not a single battery ever needed to be hooked back to a charger as it literally, kept itself charged up and that was that. It ran so long John got tired of it but that was the best self-running method I think he ever came up with. I saw this and so did Peter.

Hi Aaron,

thanks for elaborating. I think with that machine John tried different setups, was the one you are talking about the cap pulser variant with a huge cap switched at about 3 V over the battery, or a 24V cap with a bit smaller caps?
When he swapped the run down run battery to the position of one of the charge batteries, how did he prevent it from direct directly charging from the other 3 batts?

I hear you about the low impedance of the batteries being a must, this is probably also one reason why John switched to cap pulsing. A good big cap has a fixed internal impedance...and converts radiant much better.

When I tried charging batteries directly from the inductive pulses the desulphation took place much faster and they charged faster and faster and to a much higher voltage, but when I ran loads across them, resistive, inductive or capacitive, their capacity somehow seemed to shrink more and more, they were unable to sustain a load for a long time, even with a big cap in front of the load. When I reverted back to cap pulsing, after a few cycles they behaved as normal again, actually much better then normal. But the thing with the inductive charging was weird...

PS. I believe John's pulser had a Cole switch instead of SG circuit. Do you know the Korean war battery capacity?

cheers,
Mario