My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[prochiro]

Pmw

JohnStone
If you can supply a full circuit and a parts list if possible, I will build it. What size board should it be set on? I see output voltage to 20V on the diagram and guess that this is the max?
Dana

[JohnStone]

...
If you can supply a full circuit and a parts list if possible, I will build it. What size board should it be set on? I see output voltage to 20V on the diagram and guess that this is the max?...

• Please give me some days in order to modify the original schematic.
• You can build it on 2" x2" but I reccomend to use about 4" x 4" in order to have good chances for measurement and additions.
• 20V is because of special voltage regualtor and special logic and fast FET but I will replace them with standard parts as I posted obove.

BTW: LM317 calculator for stock resistors: see

[larryross]

Hi all
OK
Mad scientists if you are monitoring this thread I owe you a huge apology big time. I am so sorry I said your circuit was bogus... it wasn't laid out quit like I thought it should be (there is a better circuit), but yours works perfectly after I found the my OH S**t I forgot R4 and I found a defective pot the circuit works as stated... I get a nice square wave out and I can change the frequency and the duty cycle without one effecting the other. I also have a complimentary PWM out put. Good job sir.

The circuit does work although I haven't driven any fets with it yet... that's next after I clean up my circuit board and mount the pots.

Later
Larry

[larryross]

As I stated in my last post the circuit works... the only changes I made was to replace the 47KOhm resistor with a 38KOhm resistor (this increased the amplitude of the signal going to the second stage and removed some of the DC component) and since my 50K 10 turn pot was faulty, I used a one turn 100KOhm pot. I will probably put a decoupling cap in the signal line going to the second stage later to remove the rest of the DC component.

I first checked the output of the first stage and found it to be high out then I check the inputs on the + and - pins and found that the + pin always stayed high and never went low no mater how I turned the pot. Upon checking the circuit again I discovered I had left out R4 so VCC wasn't connected to the feed back circuit. Once I added R4 the first stage did output a square wave form. then I checked the output of the second stage and it was high and wouldn't go low I checked the voltage on the input pins of the second stage and found I had triangle wave on the - pin, but at a much lower voltage than the input on the + pin which was the full VCC voltage so I knew the pot was bad. Upon changing out the pot everything started working just fine.
Like I said before I used MadScientist's drawing with the 4 LM393... I just remarked the pins to match the LM339.

I haven't look that close at Bobs redraw to see if there is an error in it.

It is very difficult to trouble shoot an oscillator circuit without a scope so if you are trying to build this without a scope all I can say is good luck.

Regards
Larry

[larryross]

I took a quick look at the drawing on post #800 and can see several problems that might confuse someone. If anyone is using that drawing and having trouble I will try to help you.

[larryross]

Below are the redrawn schematics. One is corrections to the drawing in post #800 the other is my circuit redraw of the 4 LM393 circuit.

[iankoglin]

Below are the redrawn schematics. One is corrections to the drawing in post #800 the other is my circuit redraw of the 4 LM393 circuit.

G'Day Larry
Thankyou for looking at the Bob's circuit that I drew up it's good that you removed those arrows I can see they were misleading they were part of the larger drawing I made showing that those 6 holes now 7 were for passing the hookup wires to be more stable when soldered.

So the changes were removing the Jumper and changing the value of the pot(My mistakes copied wrong value )

and the continuation of pin 6 was not on Bob'S drawing so the connections to the pots were not correct Thats probably why he is having troubles now
I will correct and replace my drawing on PhotoBucket when I have it finished

I today had a look at my coil and decided that the 8 strands as I had them hooked 4 x 2 in series and connecting 2 +2 in parallel giving 2 coils of almost 0 Ohms ad so I decided to make 4 strands in series x 2 and that gives me 2 coils of 1.005 each

I am in the process Of making UFO's 555 Oscillator will test and try it then
I will rebuild the circuit boards and redo how I connect the Mosfets (it's too hard to replace them the way I had it built twice now I have burned 6 mosfets this time I will somehow test before I connect the machine to run.

Kindest regards Kogs

[JohnStone]

May I explain why Ufopolitics requires the coil to be above 1 Ohm.
There are two main parameters attached to a coil: inductance and resistance.

The inductance behaves like a flywheel with inertia. It takes a time until the current (rotation speed) establishes.

The resistance opposes the current linearly and behaves not dynamically compared to the inductance. (Imagine the friction of the bearings and the air resitance.)

With too low resitive component of the coil (see wire gauge and wire length) the inductance will allow unlimited currrent after a while - a real short circuit.
But it gets worse. If you have a magnetic core inside the coil you might drive it into saturation. Above this point the inductance is not present and you get an instant short circuit. (Imagine the flywheel loosing its inertia instantly while being severely accelerated!)
If you want to prevent blowing your components by this schort circuit you need to know exactly after what time to interrupt the current and you need to be able to control this action exactly.

Now given that initially we are not able to control exactly - then we need an automatic current limit by the assistance of a non dynamic property - the constant resistance.
1 Ohm limits at 12 V to 12 A and at 36V to 36A - far less than 100A for a short circuit limited only by the battery itself.

See animation. If you have no resistance the voltage across the coil decreases to zero and the current increases to dengerous levels.

Calculate:

• L [H]/R [Ohm] and you get a time in seconds when the coil draws 63.3% of maximum current limited by R only.
• Alternately calculate L [mH] / R [Ohm] and you ge the corresponding value in ms
• After 5*L/R you get 99.3% of final current

Look at your FET setup (data sheet, count of parallel FETs, battery voltage) and decide what resistance you need for safe initial operation.

You may decide to add an external power resistor between the battery + and your setup in order to increase the total resistance for limiting the current to a safe area.

I have FETs conducting excess of 100A easily - but they can kill my battery if I do not prevent that by suitable measures.

Follow the advice of Ufopolitics and don't make smoke signs while burning your money. There might be another forum more suitable for this

Outlook:
Later on if you are more experienced and have more measurement equipment than a simple DVM you will be able to find for each coil and voltage a safe maximum on time and then you might decide to decrease the resitance of your coil to minute values.
At this moment this prospective is outside the present goal and might be matter for further steps.

YOU CAN'T OPTIMIZE A SETUP BEFORE YOU GOT A BASIC FUNCTION!

[iankoglin]

May I explain why Ufopolitics requires the coil to be above 1 Ohm.
There are two main parameters attached to a coil: inductance and resistance.

The inductance behaves like a flywheel with inertia. It takes a time until the current (rotation speed) establishes.

The resistance opposes the current linearly and behaves not dynamically compared to the inductance. (Imagine the friction of the bearings and the air resitance.)

With too low resitive component of the coil (see wire gauge and wire length) the inductance will allow unlimited currrent after a while - a real short circuit.
But it gets worse. If you have a magnetic core inside the coil you might drive it into saturation. Above this point the inductance is not present and you get an instant short circuit. (Imagine the flywheel loosing its inertia instantly while being severely accelerated!)
If you want to prevent blowing your components by this schort circuit you need to know exactly after what time to interrupt the current and you need to be able to control this action exactly.

Now given that initially we are not able to control exactly - then we need an automatic current limit by the assistance of a non dynamic property - the constant resistance.
1 Ohm limits at 12 V to 12 A and at 36V to 36A - far less than 100A for a short circuit limited only by the battery itself.

See animation. If you have no resistance the voltage across the coil decreases to zero and the current increases to dengerous levels.

Calculate:

• L [H]/R [Ohm] and you get a time in seconds when the coil draws 63.3% of maximum current limited by R only.
• Alternately calculate L [mH] / R [Ohm] and you ge the corresponding value in ms
• After 5*L/R you get 99.3% of final current

Look at your FET setup (data sheet, count of parallel FETs, battery voltage) and decide what resistance you need for safe initial operation.

You may decide to add an external power resistor between the battery + and your setup in order to increase the total resistance for limiting the current to a safe area.

I have FETs conducting excess of 100A easily - but they can kill my battery if I do not prevent that by suitable measures.

Follow the advice of Ufopolitics and don't make smoke signs while burning your money. There might be another forum more suitable for this

Outlook:
Later on if you are more experienced and have more measurement equipment than a simple DVM you will be able to find for each coil and voltage a safe maximum on time and then you might decide to decrease the resitance of your coil to minute values.
At this moment this prospective is outside the present goal and might be matter for further steps.

YOU CAN'T OPTIMIZE A SETUP BEFORE YOU GOT A BASIC FUNCTION!

G'Day John
I appreciate your input
I was building my coil going by the number of turns I have 8 single strands 1.5 wire 75 turns each joinrd together but the configuration Used the ohms was too low
I can reconfigure the coil so it is all the 8 strands are in series =2.11 Ohms or 2 strands @ 1.11 Ohms
Alternatively I can build another to whatever specs required
My coil has an air core so I can place an Iron tube inside
the next coil I probably build it with an iron tube core (50mm exhaust pipe)

I looked at the animation it is in German so I will study it a bit tomorrow
I will have one of my friends translate it

Kindest regards Kogs

[larryross]

G'Day John
I appreciate your input
I was building my coil going by the number of turns I have 8 single strands 1.5 wire 75 turns each joinrd together but the configuration Used the ohms was too low
I can reconfigure the coil so it is all the 8 strands are in series =2.11 Ohms or 2 strands @ 1.11 Ohms
Alternatively I can build another to whatever specs required
My coil has an air core so I can place an Iron tube inside
the next coil I probably build it with an iron tube core (50mm exhaust pipe)

I looked at the animation it is in German so I will study it a bit tomorrow
I will have one of my friends translate it

Kindest regards Kogs

Kogs
If you use Google Chrome browser, it will translate for you any text.
I use it all the time.
Hope this helps

Regards
Larry

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Larry Ross and John Stone!!

G'Day John
I appreciate your input
I was building my coil going by the number of turns I have 8 single strands 1.5 wire 75 turns each joinrd together but the configuration Used the ohms was too low
I can reconfigure the coil so it is all the 8 strands are in series =2.11 Ohms or 2 strands @ 1.11 Ohms
Alternatively I can build another to whatever specs required
My coil has an air core so I can place an Iron tube inside
the next coil I probably build it with an iron tube core (50mm exhaust pipe)

I looked at the animation it is in German so I will study it a bit tomorrow
I will have one of my friends translate it

Kindest regards Kogs

First I want to thank you John Stone for that great explanation, of why I need Coil to be above One(1) Ohm.
Thanks Larry Ross for your great work on the Mad Scientist-Bob French set-up review and correction.
I knew that Mad Scientist and Bob French worked...I know the test conducted by Bob were real...and worked out...

Hello Kogs,
Now Kogs, you do not need to connect all your strands in series, you could run a Resistance test with just four(4) ...or three(3) and see what ohms you have...Then, the rest of strands could be used as your direct induced Secondary...where you will just get also an "extra" output, and NO Diodes are required if you have an air or just a steel tube inside...and not an E Frame.
You will get a heck of an output in that secondary...I bet on that!

Now when you connect them in series, make sure to do it so that the turns DO NOT OPPOSE EACH OTHERS (or they will cancel EM Fields to a big Zero)...meaning, they MUST all, flow same direction of the turns.


Good luck on your next tests



Regards



Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Hey Kogs,


You seem to have a very bad short on your output (between Drain-Source)
Or your Coil have too little resistance. A minimum accepted to run it safely would be 0.8 to 1.0 ohms.
If you have below that, then the oscillator will short out and blow all mosfets.

Your Coil is very nice, however, too high awg (14-15) X 8 strands...That makes it almost zero resistance my friend!

One thing you must do before turning on the oscillator is measure resistance of Coil!!...I bet you barely have 0.3-0.2 ohms...that is almost zero...
You have to play with your mosfets RdsOn time/resistance response rate...if they are too slow, they will burn like a fast blow fuse.

The other thing is NOT TO DRIVE IT UP TO MAX LIMITS in one turn!!,...BUT SLOWLY...VERY SLOW!!

Regards


Ufopolitics

G'Day UFO
I am sorry I took so long to reply but I had a lot of thinking about this coil of mine
Firstly I only was putting on the number of turns 8 layers x 5Turns with pigtails each strand
the configuration of these strands was to make 1 bifilar coil and when I started the machine it blew all the 6 Mosfets twice.

I spent the last days making a Spreadsheet Coil Calculator so that I can immediately calculate the coil by changing the Core diam, Coil len or turns, wire AWG#. the calculated output for size AWG 14/15 is here

Kogs UFO Photos :: CoilCalculatorSnapshot.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket

?1. Please what do you suggest?
Should I use this configured coil of 8 strands =2 coils of 1.055098 ohms? each
or Add another 4 strands making coil 12 strands= 2 coils of 1.736529Ohms each
or Add another 8 strands making coil 16 strands= 2 coils of 2.520477 Ohms each
this coil has an Air core
or Make a completely different coil with a different AWG# with or without an iron tube core?(exhaust pipe50mm?)

? 2. When starting the machine should I have the Pot set Max ohms or Min Ohms

Kindest Regards To you and all the others helping here
Kogs


It was 1975 when I first purchased a computer I am a Joiner and had my own business, After purchasing it there was no program to operate it so I had to learn to program in assembler and I wrote my programs in my own Macro assembler language. As there was no one really handy to me able to fix the boards when something went wrong I started to investigate how to fix them my self as I had all the schematics for the boards I learned to test all the chips and replace the ones that were no good.I was able to do that even though I did not know the internal workings of each component.
As I said I was trying to run my Joinery business and this computer was costing me toooo much time I had to Quit with it.
I have forgotten all that I learned and Now I find that this List is encouriging every one is very helpful to me as I have to learn all over again.

Thank you for your list here and spending your time I really am greatful

[iankoglin]

Ammended LM339 oscillator

Below are the redrawn schematics. One is corrections to the drawing in post #800 the other is my circuit redraw of the 4 LM393 circuit.

G'Day Larry
I have finished all the alterations to My Drawing of Bob's LM339 Oscillator
I think I got all the ammendments

It is herehttp://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...circuitPic.jpg

Thanks for your help
Kindest regards Kogs

[iankoglin]

amended LM339 circuit

Below are the redrawn schematics. One is corrections to the drawing in post #800 the other is my circuit redraw of the 4 LM393 circuit.

G'Day Larry

I finished ammending my drawing of Bob French's LM339 Oscillator
It is herehttp://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...circuitPic.jpg
I think I got all the alterations
Thank you very much
Kogs

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Kogs

G'Day UFO
I am sorry I took so long to reply but I had a lot of thinking about this coil of mine
Firstly I only was putting on the number of turns 8 layers x 5Turns with pigtails each strand
the configuration of these strands was to make 1 bifilar coil and when I started the machine it blew all the 6 Mosfets twice.

I spent the last days making a Spreadsheet Coil Calculator so that I can immediately calculate the coil by changing the Core diam, Coil len or turns, wire AWG#. the calculated output for size AWG 14/15 is here

Kogs UFO Photos :: CoilCalculatorSnapshot.jpg picture by Kogs1 - Photobucket

?1. Please what do you suggest?
Should I use this configured coil of 8 strands =2 coils of 1.055098 ohms? each
or Add another 4 strands making coil 12 strands= 2 coils of 1.736529Ohms each
or Add another 8 strands making coil 16 strands= 2 coils of 2.520477 Ohms each
this coil has an Air core
or Make a completely different coil with a different AWG# with or without an iron tube core?(exhaust pipe50mm?)

? 2. When starting the machine should I have the Pot set Max ohms or Min Ohms

Kindest Regards To you and all the others helping here
Kogs


It was 1975 when I first purchased a computer I am a Joiner and had my own business, After purchasing it there was no program to operate it so I had to learn to program in assembler and I wrote my programs in my own Macro assembler language. As there was no one really handy to me able to fix the boards when something went wrong I started to investigate how to fix them my self as I had all the schematics for the boards I learned to test all the chips and replace the ones that were no good.I was able to do that even though I did not know the internal workings of each component.
As I said I was trying to run my Joinery business and this computer was costing me toooo much time I had to Quit with it.
I have forgotten all that I learned and Now I find that this List is encouriging every one is very helpful to me as I have to learn all over again.

Thank you for your list here and spending your time I really am greatful

Hello Kogs



That's great Kogs!, the fact that you are able to handle all that programming and chips checking...awesome!

Now, please do not go by calculators but measure your own resistance with a meter...at both ends of coil, make sure contacts are very clean.

Like I said before, you will be safe above 1 ohm, however the perfect measurement would be a bit over like 1.4 to 1.5 Ohms.

You MUST START at Highest resistance on Pot, meaning, Zero Hertz of Oscillations at your output to Coil...then start dialing very slow...with a CFL on the output after diodes...you first will see a blinking at low hertz (@ 50-100Hz)...a very bright flash pulsing, that is supposed to accelerate the flash frequency as you turn higher on pot...if you do not get any light, turn it off and recheck it, there is something absolutely wrong.
Check Mosfet's temperature with an Infrared at all times till you get it working at higher levels (800Hertz and above) and mosfets are just warm...

You could start testing the highest resistance coil (to play safe)...then start changing them as your system is working perfect and stable.

Good luck and great testing!!


Regards


Ufopolitics