My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[sampojo]

hot coils question

I have gotten alot of input from Prochiro on how to get them most out of a rotor. and of course Ufo has stated a coil must come in around one ohm resistance. I try to fill up the rotor to get the most out of it. Using multifilar complicates the calculation but I am getting better at it. It gives you options. My motor was hot-running bc I made the wire thicker by going to 4 strands and I went longer since the rotor wasnt filling up on my first winding at 3 strands. But I ran out of room making the coil length shorter than I should and was coming in at around .7 ohms per coil when it was fully wound. My solution here is to go back to 3 strands and go longer, targetting about 1.33 ohms per coil to allow it run continuously and get no hotter than 120 degrees on 12v. I already have a dual stator motor of this type that is wound at around 1.3 ohms per coil, and that is how it runs. That is hot to the touch and I worry about it. I have this really good wiring guide that breaks down the resistance every which way, and since I don't have good multimeters, I am going strictly by calculation. So on this wiring guide, you may find what I am using, 32ga, 6' per ohm, and 3 strands at 24' will give 1.33 ohms. Perfecto! This will go far to filling up my rotor. I probably should do prochiro's calculation, estimating the area of the inter-pole spacing and dividing by the strand area to find out how many winds it will take to fill them...

I had been watching Ufo's vid on the imperial epic run, on the MAEM thread post 3132. And I just recently noticed one temp reading was 160+ degrees at the end of the run!!! Looks like the brushes. My question is, How hot should the motors be allowed to get? My little motors above, the whole motor will get to be 120 deg+ including the magnets. So not only do you have to worry about melting something, but also about the magnets overheating and losing their magnetism. Do you have a temp gauge? How hot is the A1-MoGen getting?

[Midaztouch]

Hey Midaz,

The deal is if you pulse each brush set in a synchronous order, its supposed to release more Radiant Energy, as opposed to the way a conventional PWM would pulse each brush set under power at the same time, or a battery in direct feed. I wound a unipolar quad stator of mine recently but was off on the resistance and haven't gotten around to rewind it. I am trying to operate on motors in the 5A and under range. I have burnt up a couple cheap motor controllers so I am thinking things John Stone had posted about all the RE running around needs a lot of heavy duty components. I plan to make a program running the AMC as a conventional PWM to test things out. Still need to build some more monster driver boards. I was out of work for a few months for an operation and during recover hacked away at this stuff. Not so much time any more back on the job. Working on the unipolar designs. Got a Quad Pentagon Bent Y 10 pole, which is a N-S Winding to compare to, but it also runs hot, with too low a coil resistance, so if I build a good unipolar motor, they may be tough to compare since the wire gauge ratings will necessarily be different. I am leaning toward multifilar windings too.

For hot coils, are you thinking about using thicker wires with less turns or thinner with more turns?

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[sampojo]

AMC/MS5.1/ vs conventional PWM

Sampojo

You are still banging away at the JS Monster and AMCs.
synchronously vs conventionally... Off hand, what differences could there be? Can you post a vid or pic of your conventional controller?

You had heating in the past then improvements. Are the motors North/South wind or all north groups or pairs? Which design did you use for each tests?

Keep it clean and Green
Midaz

Keep it Clean and Green

Hey Midaz,

The deal is if you pulse each brush set in a synchronous order, its supposed to release more Radiant Energy, as opposed to the way a conventional PWM would pulse each brush set under power at the same time, or a battery in direct feed. I wound a unipolar quad stator of mine recently but was off on the resistance and haven't gotten around to rewind it. I am trying to operate on motors in the 5A and under range. I have burnt up a couple cheap motor controllers so I am thinking things John Stone had posted about all the RE running around needs a lot of heavy duty components. I plan to make a program running the AMC as a conventional PWM to test things out. Still need to build some more monster driver boards. I was out of work for a few months for an operation and during recover hacked away at this stuff. Not so much time any more back on the job. Working on the unipolar designs. Got a Quad Pentagon Bent Y 10 pole, which is a N-S Winding to compare to, but it also runs hot, with too low a coil resistance, so if I build a good unipolar motor, they may be tough to compare since the wire gauge ratings will necessarily be different. I am leaning toward multifilar windings too.

[Midaztouch]

I had run a quick comparison on my GM window asym motor series I have built and on the ragged end of detection I thought I saw a 7% improvement in performance (dual stator). I haven't been able to conduct any more significant testing because my motor seems to keep burning up my conventional PWM controllers. This kind of reminds me of John Stone saying many time how the monster driver boards were designed to withstand all the bemf effects of these motors while conventional designs would be insufficient. So true it seems... As for my neon radiant energy detection circuits I have built in on my AMC I can verify they work, as when running it on my asym motors, I can see them flicker dully when I turn down the lights I think I will have to build a new program to have my AMC function as a conventional PWM in order to nail down the performance of pulsing brushsets synchronously vs conventionally. The effects are supposed to be stronger on a quad stator asym motor and that is still in the works, as my first design ran way too hot.

Sampojo

You are still banging away at the JS Monster and AMCs.
synchronously vs conventionally... Off hand, what differences could there be? Can you post a vid or pic of your conventional controller?

You had heating in the past then improvements. Are the motors North/South wind or all north groups or pairs? Which design did you use for each tests?

Keep it clean and Green
Midaz

Keep it Clean and Green

[sampojo]

conventional PWM performance vs Arduino/Monster driver

I had run a quick comparison on my GM window asym motor series I have built and on the ragged end of detection I thought I saw a 7% improvement in performance (dual stator). I haven't been able to conduct any more significant testing because my motor seems to keep burning up my conventional PWM controllers. This kind of reminds me of John Stone saying many time how the monster driver boards were designed to withstand all the bemf effects of these motors while conventional designs would be insufficient. So true it seems... As for my neon radiant energy detection circuits I have built in on my AMC I can verify they work, as when running it on my asym motors, I can see them flicker dully when I turn down the lights I think I will have to build a new program to have my AMC function as a conventional PWM in order to nail down the performance of pulsing brushsets synchronously vs conventionally. The effects are supposed to be stronger on a quad stator asym motor and that is still in the works, as my first design ran way too hot.

[TonyD]

Much appreciated

Hello Tony,

Ok, if you look at the post I have made after, or #127 here

You could see the simplest controller built with the 555 timer, and schematics are here
And here from my albums with more FET's:

[IMG][/IMG]

I made a more complex circuit by adding a voltage regulator (LM317) to use it with higher voltage than 12V (36V) , plus more MOSFET's (they are all N-Channels) connected in parallel to stand higher pulsing amps, as shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And below is a detailed zoomed view of the LM317 Voltage regulator correct circuit and components.

[IMG][/IMG]

Cheers and welcome again!


Ufopolitics

Hello Ufopolitics,

Thank you very much for taking the time to supply the above links/images. I will set about my experiments and feedback on my successes or otherwise...

Thanks again,
TonyD

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Tony and welcome

Hello all,

I know I am a bit late to the party, but I was hoping someone would be able to post an image of the original circuit that I could start working from. Preferably, the one referenced on post #126 with the polarities corrected. I have read a lot of the posts and the images seem to be missing from the start of the thread, so I would appreciate if someone would be able to help me out.

Thanks,

TonyD

Hello Tony,

Ok, if you look at the post I have made after, or #127 here

You could see the simplest controller built with the 555 timer, and schematics are here
And here from my albums with more FET's:

[IMG][/IMG]

I made a more complex circuit by adding a voltage regulator (LM317) to use it with higher voltage than 12V (36V) , plus more MOSFET's (they are all N-Channels) connected in parallel to stand higher pulsing amps, as shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And below is a detailed zoomed view of the LM317 Voltage regulator correct circuit and components.

[IMG][/IMG]

Cheers and welcome again!


Ufopolitics

[TonyD]

Hello!

Hello all,

I know I am a bit late to the party, but I was hoping someone would be able to post an image of the original circuit that I could start working from. Preferably, the one referenced on post #126 with the polarities corrected. I have read a lot of the posts and the images seem to be missing from the start of the thread, so I would appreciate if someone would be able to help me out.

Thanks,

TonyD

[sampojo]

AMC update: Testing Power gains of AMC the goal

My quad mosfet design runs super cool, no detectable heating with the motor on a 12v power supply. My main goal in this is to achieve the radiant energy gains promised by synchronous pulsing delivered by using the arduino with JS Monster Drivers. So the question is how could these energy gains be verified. I have been comparing a conventional pulse width modulator motor driver to my AMC and have some preliminary results.

The test is simple:

1. Run the AMC at max power (using 12v power suppy)
2. Record total amperes
3. Hook up the motor to a conventional PWM
4. Run at the same RPM
5. Record total amperes

RESULTS:My unipolar GM window motor draws about 1.1A on the conventional PWM and about .08A less on the AMC.

I do not get a big swing in amperage, it jumps up near an amp just to rotate, and peaking at the above values at the AMC max. The PWM max actually delivers more RPM. And straight from the power supply gets the most RPM. Since the voltage is pulsed, I plan to look for an average voltage value for the duty cycle potentiometer position.

I am concerned that I am measuring such a small amount of difference. I will work towards a video. As for now, I have fried my PWM and a new one is on order.

[Back-halo]

recommendation for my1016

Hello, I've been looking at something for my1016 but not cleared me, recommend me something to make it free energy or radiant energy that is easy to do for someone with no knowledge of electronics like me, if there is a circuit that can do that no amount taking oscillator or more complicated things, I want to to put it on my scooter and to travel many kilometers or go to school. any solution that can give me? do not laugh.

[sampojo]

woo-hooo great results with AMC and unipolar motor

Very preliminary. Got my AMC fired up finally. I had a gremlin running around the mosfets on one board, seemed to have a bad one after I converted my boards to quad-mosfet construction. It was on the board that I used Kog's method of going to the terminal from the heat sink. This has a great trouble shooting advantage as you can simply disconnect each mosfet and isolate it without having to unsolder!!! Slowly started disconnecting the Mosfets, seemed to detect a fault once but then could not. When first connected this channel would run the motor even when the Arduino was not pulsing. slapped things backed together taking some shortcuts to test the board, had to assume it was gonna work, and it did!!

So here are my results. When pulsing, probably around 1KC at full on, my GM window double rotor dual stator unipolar winding did about 3450 rpm. I need a more sensitve ammeter, cause it was like it wasn't even flinching. when run as direct feed it takes at least 1.0+ amps. I ran it direct feed both brush sets, and got about 100rpm more. Close enough to compare for now! So it didn't even want to register 1 tick (1/2 amp) on the AMC and direct feed I know it takes about an amp.

Standby as I will measure this up, down and sideways in the next few days.

EDIT bad idea trying to make any deductions from a meter on the low end out of range for the job... It seems to stick sometimes I see today. found the bad mosfet from originals on the board now also. failed at a 50ohm short, not completely shorted yet...

[Gringo11]

Hold Tight - new MOSFET on the way

Hello All,
This might be just what we may need to deal with temperature and losses on MOSFET and allow faster switching. New SiC MOSFET in the making.

Please see link below:

Scottish facility develops SiC mosfets for electric car maker | Electronics Weekly

Cheers - Gringo

[sampojo]

Monster driver board death in AMC

Things looking up, only one mosfet looks bad. Had to isolate the mosfets to find out if only one was bad, so I had a 50-50 chance and even this squirrel found a nut, first try got the right one. As soon as I took the bad board out, of the shared ground, the other one started working, too. And I am using a new soldering bit and now I have plenty of power to work on the 12ga wire on my 100w iron. Planning ways to squeeze in 4 mosfets per board, as Dana suggested

[sampojo]

AMC update and blowout

Got the AMC working about 2 weeks ago. I refined my GM unipolar motor, checking all the connections, thought I did a good job toughening it up, finishing all loose end short cuts, etc. Started running it on a 12 5A power suppy with the AMC. AMC worked perfectly, except my ammeter didnt survive the construction process. I think it got remagnetized by my neos I am trying to put in my AC motor to gen conversion. I did some tests, got 3400 rpm on a linear feed from batteries, then got 2400 rpm on the AMC, running both brush sets on the dual stator motor. Took some ammeter readings. Planned to compare the amperage on a conventional pwm feeding both brush sets. But I was disappointed in the rpm and started looking for a higher voltage power supply, found a 30v/1A wallwart. Working with "low" power on 12v I forgot to push the duty cycle pot back down for start up as I switched to higher voltage. I was only driving one brush set initially, but as it started running, I soon lost control of the motor, seems shorted full on, diodes not blinking. So betting I fried my MOSFETs at least. Hope thats all. What is funny is both boards experienced failure even though I was only using one. They do share a ground from the power supply, which is the same as the PWM GND. Tried to run my motor to get the conventional pwm amp draw at 2400 rpm, but now the motor was really acting up. Took it apart again and found a hung brush and a broken connection on another brush wire! Got beat up during construction. Refurb time... I am going to hate the MOSFET replacement. The 12ga wire is a b***h to solder. No longer unemployed, so there went my free time.

Put a fan on the Mosfets underneath them, cutting a hole in the bottom of my AMC box. (Dana, thanks for the suggestion! ) They got quite hot on my initial AMC performance tests on my GM window motor with a 3/8" shaft (see Ufo thread My Asym Elecrodynamic Machines). It only draws an amp or 2 to run. I like Dana's idea of putting 2 more mosfets on the bottom of the board but I think I am out of room in this box. Amazing to think that these circuits will drive a huge 56 frame motor. So stand back, they get much hotter?!?!

NOTE 10/22 : Test bed motor shaped up, found loose connector, had to solder the broken brush. I believe it is far enough away from the brush that it will not melt. Got brush to slide better. Found an alignment problem. Got 3800 rpm on 12v linear feed both brushes, and highest ever rpm at 8500 on the 30v. Running at about 110 degF unloaded @ 30v, 100 degF @ 12v. At 30v, takes a load well, getting to about 120 degF. Worry about losing magnetism at those temps. Once I get the boards repaired I plan to compare the amp draw of the AMC PWM vs. a standard PWM at the same rpm. Will run the AMC at full power, checking total amp draw. Then if the linear feed on a conventional PWM runs faster at full power, turn it down to match the AMC full power setting rpm and take the amp reading there. This will test Ufo's concept that alternately powering the brush sets generates more power.

[prochiro]

Sam
It does seem that after all you have been thru that you are going to have ignition. R7 is always put in at the bottom side but will not influence board function. It is an indicator for your eyes only. Once you get it going, go slow and most of all check for heat. Keep an eye on the bottom of your board as that mist of solder stuff may arch once the power gets going.

Garry
Thanks...........................................

Dana