Found treasure, could use some advice

[Neight]

I need some suggestions...
this thing is locking up all my reed switches. they are only working intermittently, and I think they are either burning up, or just magnetically locking up, because I can't get a steady stream going right now.

If anyone has a simple switching circuit they could share with me, I would really appreciate it!
the simpler the better, I have several different kinds of NPN transistors, and a couple of coils I can work with, I just need something that will short this primary coil consistently so I can take good measurements off of the secondary, and measure the input.

the only switching circuit I know how to make is the SSG, and I don't think that will work here.

when the reed switches are working, I am getting extremely bright light out of both legs of the neon! I really want to keep messing with this thing, but I need a more reliable shorting method than the standard reed switch.
I do have couple of 4 pin hall sensors, but I don't know if those would even work for plain switching. I also don't know how to use them


thanks in advance for anyone who can help me out here

N8

[Iotayodi]

this thing is locking up all my reed switches. they are only working intermittently

Have you tried adjusting the coil? It pretty much has to be timed out.
Dont forget the proximity of the reed switch to the coils magnetic field also.

[Neight]

Have you tried adjusting the coil? It pretty much has to be timed out.
Dont forget the proximity of the reed switch to the coils magnetic field also.

Thanks for the tips, but I actually am starting to think my magnets might be my problem. they are maybe too strong?
I don't really know. the coil I am working with is at least a foot away from the reed switch and spinning rotor.
something else that has started happening...
I have started to use a wall wart instead of a battery to power the primary.
and using the wall wart (10V DC 88mA output) the reed switch is still locking up, but instead of no neon lighting, the neon gets stuck on. I have burned up two potentiometers today (smoke coming out of the bottom and everything ). when the neon gets stuck on, I can smell the O3 being made coming out of the reed switch. also when the neon is stuck on, I hear an intermittent clicking noise coming from the reed switch, almost like it's self switching some how...
I can move the reed switch any distance away from both the coil and the rotor and the neon stays lit, and the clicking noise keeps going. I have to physically disconnect the power going to the reed switch before it will shut off. nothing is getting hot, though the reed switch does get a bit warm.
lots of weird stuff going on, and I still have a lot to figure out here, but I am learning and that is the whole point for me
I will keep posting updates as I go, and as always, I am open to suggestions!
thanks

N8

[Farmhand]

Hi Neight, The simplest switching circuit I could think of to try would be using a reed switch to trigger a transistor to switch the coil supply or return line.

The lower the voltage and current through the reed the better I think, I melted two trying to use 12 volts through the reed to a transistor base. Maybe 4 volts or so would work good and a resistor maybe too but also if the magnet stops next to the reed it will stay conducting and with power still availiable there it might keep heating up.

I didn't have much luck yet with reed switch's but i haven't given up on them yet.

P.S. nice pick up getting those coils.

[Neight]

Hi Neight, The simplest switching circuit I could think of to try would be using a reed switch to trigger a transistor to switch the coil supply or return line.

The lower the voltage and current through the reed the better I think, I melted two trying to use 12 volts through the reed to a transistor base. Maybe 4 volts or so would work good and a resistor maybe too but also if the magnet stops next to the reed it will stay conducting and with power still availiable there it might keep heating up.

I didn't have much luck yet with reed switch's but i haven't given up on them yet.

P.S. nice pick up getting those coils.

Thanks Farmhand!

The reed switches I am using are supposed to be rated for 12V. I am nearly positive now that what is happening is there is HV AC going back through the reed switch and heating it up to the point where it gets stuck. If I let them sit a while and cool off, they work fine.
I am going to put a diode after the switch to try and keep some of the AC out and see if that doesn't help things a bit

quick update -
I have switched wall warts and have something new to report. I am now using a variable AC/DC converter. it's adjustable from 3V to 12V @ 1A.
I am using 6V, which is what these coils were designed to be used at. I think I might be getting a bit of resonance in the coils with this voltage. the plasma I get is now getting out to about 1/4 inch, which is the longest I have seen it stretch with this setup.
also, with this wall wart, there seems to be a bit of self oscillation going on. when the reed switch gets stuck on, the neon doesn't stay lit, but it pulses like clockwork, every 3 seconds until the switch cools and opens back up. you can hear the switch open, and that is always the last pulse of the neon.
it's kind of neat to watch, first one leg lights for a split second, then the other leg lights and this repeats every three seconds for anywhere between 6-30 seconds.
either way, I am going to try a diode in series with the reed switch and see if that doesn't fix the sticking problem. if i can get that solved, I will put up a video of all this in action
thanks for the suggestions Farmhand! very much appreciated. if you have, or can point to a diagram of how to wire up the reed to the transistor, that would be great! Sad to say, but I still really don't know how to wire this kind of stuff up without something to look at. I am learning, and have made my own simple coil shorting circuits, but still have to follow a diagram for anything with more than two leads on it
thanks!

N8

[Slider2732]

There was a video posted the other day, by a chap who used no reed switch and no Hall sensor to run his pulse motor. I can't find the video (deleted history today on YouTube oops) but I think a link to it is on the Muller generator thread ?
Point being, you just wire up another coil and trigger the transistor Base with it....reallllly simple and something i'll be trying myself.
Should sort your reed troubles out.
*Edit* - here ya go: ‪The magnet kicker‬‏ - YouTube

One major idea I had for your coils, is that of wireless energy transfer.
First thing, could you test for HV from the coils themselves ? just hook an LED to an AV plug (2 diodes going opposite directions and both are soldered at one end to a few inches of a piece of wire). You should be able to light the LED at a couple of inches range at least.

Next, how about seeing what 2 of these coil devices will do. They 'should' be resonant, being as they were mass produced and so will have the same amount of windings and other details. You may well find you can get great wireless power range by running both with 2x Slayer exciter circuits.
The Slayer circuit is a transistor switcher, very similar to pulse motor work.

[Neight]

There was a video posted the other day, by a chap who used no reed switch and no Hall sensor to run his pulse motor. I can't find the video (deleted history today on YouTube oops) but I think a link to it is on the Muller generator thread ?
Point being, you just wire up another coil and trigger the transistor Base with it....reallllly simple and something i'll be trying myself.
Should sort your reed troubles out.
*Edit* - here ya go: ‪The magnet kicker‬‏ - YouTube

One major idea I had for your coils, is that of wireless energy transfer.
First thing, could you test for HV from the coils themselves ? just hook an LED to an AV plug (2 diodes going opposite directions and both are soldered at one end to a few inches of a piece of wire). You should be able to light the LED at a couple of inches range at least.

Next, how about seeing what 2 of these coil devices will do. They 'should' be resonant, being as they were mass produced and so will have the same amount of windings and other details. You may well find you can get great wireless power range by running both with 2x Slayer exciter circuits.
The Slayer circuit is a transistor switcher, very similar to pulse motor work.

hey Slider, thanks for the post!
after seeing the plasma stream, it reminded me quite a bit of a few of the vids (several of yours actually ) of the exciter circuits, and I am glad that you mentioned it! I will have to look up the slayer circuit on the thread, and see if I can't make something happen with that! the AV plug I can try tonight for sure, I have seen one before, and should be able to put one together quick, I will post results on that shortly

hooking two of these up in series and in parallel was something already on my list to try, but i hadn't considered the wireless boosting aspect of adding them together. I am very interested to get on that as well.

also, thanks for the suggestion for the switching fix, I saw that video when it was posted a few days back, and forgot all about it in the excitement I will try that either tonight or tomorrow for sure!

Lots of great stuff to try, and it's nice to have something to contribute that may lead somewhere

I finally have a video up of most of what I have mentioned on here.
no meters on it yet in the video, but my next one I will include a reading of the input and output currents, as well as show the scope readings I am getting.
here is the link to the video -
‪Model T power....‬‏ - YouTube

Right now, I have the primary connected in a dead short (took out the reed switch all together) and it seems the transformer on the wall wart is having a pulsing effect on the primary. with the wall wart set at 12V and the primary coil dead shorted, the neon flashes regularly every 3 seconds as you can see in the video. first one leg, then the other just as before. if I set the input voltage @ 4.5V the pulsing gets much faster, around 2x/sec.
it's a bit odd watching the neon flash like an LED on a timer
it's been going like that for at least 30 mins, and nothing is getting hot, not even the wall wart...
not sure if that could be useful for anything, but it's a neat effect either way

I will try the AV plug once I have this posted and add an edit to let you know how it went!
thanks for the ideas, I will get to work on it and let you know what I get!

N8

edit: unless I put the LED on backwards, I didn't get any light from the AV plug and the LED. I tried the LED both ways, and neither way lit, but I was holding the contacts together with my fingers, so that might have gotten in the way. to check that, I soldered the LED to the diodes (using 1n4001 diodes, if that counts) and still didn't get anything. it's getting pretty late, so I may try to reverse the LED tomorrow and see if that makes a difference.
I will update again later

[Farmhand]

Hi Neight, here's a drawing of a possible reed circuit. I think those buzz coils are designed to make and break themseves by the magnet switch aren't they. I thought I read that in one of the documents.

Anyway here is the drawing maybe someone else will comment if there is a better way or if different resistor values would be better. I forgot to draw in a switch but I would ue a on/off switch or disconnect the battery, like i mentioned before if the rotor stops with a magnet by the reed it will keep conducting. if you place it so that it is in between magnets when the rotor is stopped it might be OK with no switch.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91e5c9dcce17f&sc=photos#!/?cid=32a91e5c9dcce17f&sc=photos&uc=1&id=32A91E5C9DCCE17F%211256!cid=32A91E5C9DCCE17F&id=32A91E5C9DCCE17F%211334&sc=photos

Cheers

[Neight]

Hi Neight, here's a drawing of a possible reed circuit. I think those buzz coils are designed to make and break themseves by the magnet switch aren't they. I thought I read that in one of the documents.

Anyway here is the drawing maybe someone else will comment if there is a better way or if different resistor values would be better. I forgot to draw in a switch but I would ue a on/off switch or disconnect the battery, like i mentioned before if the rotor stops with a magnet by the reed it will keep conducting. if you place it so that it is in between magnets when the rotor is stopped it might be OK with no switch.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=32a91e5c9dcce17f&sc=photos#!/?cid=32a91e5c9dcce17f&sc=photos&uc=1&id=32A91E5C9DCCE17F%211256!cid=32A91E5C9DCCE17F&id=32A91E5C9DCCE17F%211334&sc=photos

Cheers

Excellent! thanks for the diagram Farmhand
some of these coils were designed to make or break themselves, and some were designed to use a master coil. I am not sure exactly which type these are, but it's worth a shot!

I will make sure to disconnect the battery before I stop the rotor, and thanks for the heads up!

I very much appreciate the suggestion and the circuit drawing, I will give it a shot and post what comes of it!
thanks again

N8

[Slider2732]

That is one crazy video

The coil plasma and neon output seems similar to a good Slayer exciter transistor on 6V, like the 2SA1020 or 2SA966. Very similar streamer lengths. Could the reeds be sparking away internally ?

Here's a tip for the wall wart, you might know already but...they shove out a noticeable amount of AC mains hum. An FWBR of any type, with a 2000uF or bigger cap (25V rated) in parallel with the output will sort that out. Many own circuits run weird unless I smooth the supply. Latchings and mis-firings can happen. Also, because these adapters are not exactly finely tuned, the FWBR normally gives truer readings of voltage selected. Mine now gives 3V at the 3V setting. You can adjust a 6.7V reading for 6V setting with a series diode too. Just one of those things, but, it may also change the characteristics of the coils if they get a cleaner supply.
Also thinking all of this because they are tuned to 6V.

For the AV plug and LED, i've found that 1N4148's work the best, cheapest to find too, being as they litter old circuit boards.

[Rl2003]

Neight,
Very nice video and info on your little set up. I don't have the time to
play with this idea this week, but over the week end I will set up a little
circuit like your to see if we can do some of the same tests.
I did find this Magneto that looks simalar to what was posted in the coil information.
I have to delete a picture to post it as I am out of space, but think
it is a interesting find. The large gear had been warped but I was able
to get it close to orig. I does spin but the magnets are flat. Maybe I will
have them re-magnitized at some point if I find a diagram as to how it
was connected.
Mark

[Neight]

That is one crazy video

The coil plasma and neon output seems similar to a good Slayer exciter transistor on 6V, like the 2SA1020 or 2SA966. Very similar streamer lengths. Could the reeds be sparking away internally ?

Here's a tip for the wall wart, you might know already but...they shove out a noticeable amount of AC mains hum. An FWBR of any type, with a 2000uF or bigger cap (25V rated) in parallel with the output will sort that out. Many own circuits run weird unless I smooth the supply. Latchings and mis-firings can happen. Also, because these adapters are not exactly finely tuned, the FWBR normally gives truer readings of voltage selected. Mine now gives 3V at the 3V setting. You can adjust a 6.7V reading for 6V setting with a series diode too. Just one of those things, but, it may also change the characteristics of the coils if they get a cleaner supply.
Also thinking all of this because they are tuned to 6V.

For the AV plug and LED, i've found that 1N4148's work the best, cheapest to find too, being as they litter old circuit boards.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun to work with, but now I am pretty much stuck on finding another trigger source. Every one of my reed switches is stuck on now, and won't let go

I do think they are sparking inside, I think the HV skin effect is negating every thing I do to keep the voltage from getting back to the switch.

I tried using a FWBR and cap accross the input, and my input voltage did level off nicely, but my last good reed switch still siezed up.

I am looking into using a 12VDC relay from one of the circuit boards I have saved up. don't know if i can make it work, but I figure it's worth a shot.
I will have to figure out exactly how to wire it to the primary input. don't know if it will switch fast enough, but I figure it's worth a shot
I am also thinking of trying to use a coil shorting technique to supply the input voltage, similar to how I was lighting the LEDs in my other videos.
I could get close to 6V rectified, though I doubt I will be able to get enough current to make it work.
I have a lot to try, though I am watching my daughter until about 8 tonight, so any more tests will have to wait a few more hours.

lots of ideas coming to me, and some of them i don't really know how to make them work, but it's a blast trying and I am learning a lot.

I am probably going to try and read through the slayer exciter thread some and see if I can pick up any tricks from that also.

I will check my cache of old circuit boards for some transistors and diodes I can use. not sure about the transistors you mentioned, but I am sure i can find the diodes, just have to check

Thanks a ton for all the ideas and suggestions, I am trying thigns as fast as I can, but if I can't find a more reliable switching meathod, I am pretty well dead in the water for now
I am sure something will work, just have to keep at it!

N8

[Neight]

Neight,
Very nice video and info on your little set up. I don't have the time to
play with this idea this week, but over the week end I will set up a little
circuit like your to see if we can do some of the same tests.
I did find this Magneto that looks simalar to what was posted in the coil information.
I have to delete a picture to post it as I am out of space, but think
it is a interesting find. The large gear had been warped but I was able
to get it close to orig. I does spin but the magnets are flat. Maybe I will
have them re-magnitized at some point if I find a diagram as to how it
was connected.
Mark

Hey Mark
very cool! that does look just like the magnetos in the article, and I am interested to see if you can get it working!
how hard is it to turn the main gear? I wonder how much HP and torque it would take to get it spinning enough to run one of these...
it would be cool if a regular pulse motor could spin one without stopping it?
then you could run a motor, use that to run the magneto, and double your output really. have the motor charging a battery with the BEMF, and the magneto running one of these coils and lighting a CFL or something.
very cool find, and I look forward to seeing what you can do with it
thanks for posting, and hopefully we can find a good use for these coils! maybe I can take the one I have open the rest of the way apart and get an idea of how many turns and what guage wire the primary and secondary are, and possibly be able to replicate these things for use in other experiments.

N8

[dR-Green]

I am probably going to try and read through the slayer exciter thread some and see if I can pick up any tricks from that also.

I was about to suggest this and then I read what you said Maybe this is also an option using a 555 timer. Johnny Davro's JT SEC variants thread is also good, as the JT will give you a simple solid state triggering method that's not much different to an SSG circuit. Also the simple SEC circuit should work with those coils of yours and is a nice simple thing to start experiment with. Just don't make the same mistake I did and connect the HV output to the transistor base to see what happens. The transistor breaks is what happens If you can get a "pickup" coil or piece of wire near the ignition coil secondary to get the transistor to switch that way instead of an external aluminium tray then it can be made neat and tidy and your results can be more accurate because everything's in exactly the same place as it was the last time etc.

SOLID STATE TESLA COIL WITH 555 TIMER | Circuit Project Electronic

[dR-Green]

with the wall wart set at 12V and the primary coil dead shorted, the neon flashes regularly every 3 seconds as you can see in the video. first one leg, then the other just as before. if I set the input voltage @ 4.5V the pulsing gets much faster, around 2x/sec.

Could this be a voltage/frequency relationship effect? If you are triggering the reed switch with magnets on a rotor, then the switching frequency is theoretically constant. If you increase the voltage the sparks "should" get bigger. So seeing as it's being triggered at the same frequency as before, would this somehow dampen the effects you "should" be seeing

[edit] I also don't know what this effect is, but I assume it's well known... When discharging capacitors by shorting them and what not, I notice that the terminals want to stick together as if they have become magnetised or something. Maybe a similar effect is happening in the reed switch and it's causing it to lag? If so then I would imagine a relay would have the same or similar limitation. It might also explain why it performs better at a lower voltage, because the contacts are less "sticky".