Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[Zooty]

Ash,
what result did he get, all I saw him do was spin it up. did I miss something?
Zero sure is thorough w/ his build so far.

Redrichie made a nice find, shorting coils w/ an AC cap right on the pickup coil

Patrick

[Steve220]

I see

Great information. I guess I was thinking that the the quick short of the generator coil at the peak of the sinewave was being shorted directly across the drive coil.
Kind of a two for one thing, where a quick direct properly timed pulse was being sent to the drive coil to give it a little kick and at the same time help cancel out the Lenz effect in the generator coil.
Not a lot of "short", but just enough spike at the top of the sinewave to disrupt some of the Lenz effect and give that part of the disruption to the drive coil.
Kind of like an internal combustion engine, where timing of the spark is everything, a little off and it don't work at all.

But, I see how it works now.

Thanks

[Zooty]

Great information. I guess I was thinking that the the quick short of the generator coil at the peak of the sinewave was being shorted directly across the drive coil.
Kind of a two for one thing, where a quick direct properly timed pulse was being sent to the drive coil to give it a little kick and at the same time help cancel out the Lenz effect in the generator coil.
Not a lot of "short", but just enough spike at the top of the sinewave to disrupt some of the Lenz effect and give that part of the disruption to the drive coil.
Kind of like an internal combustion engine, where timing of the spark is everything, a little off and it don't work at all.

But, I see how it works now.

Thanks

In a normal setup, if the coil is shorted continuously, there is a repulsion as the magnet approaches the coil and an attraction as the magnet leaves the coil. Using a timed short at TDC for 2ms there should not be much drag at all because the magnet is not in the repulsion or attraction area. Try the experiment by shorting just before or just after the peak of the sine wave. As well as not getting as much power back, there will be some noticeable drag. TDC is like the zero stationary point. Wish i could explain it better.

[elias]

In a normal setup, if the coil is shorted continuously, there is a repulsion as the magnet approaches the coil and an attraction as the magnet leaves the coil. Using a timed short at TDC for 2ms there should not be much drag at all because the magnet is not in the repulsion or attraction area. Try the experiment by shorting just before or just after the peak of the sine wave. As well as not getting as much power back, there will be some noticeable drag. TDC is like the zero stationary point. Wish i could explain it better.

TDC has zero voltage too, so you cannot get much out in TDC, But, ... I think that if we collect the energy before TDC and in repulsion mode we would drag the rotor much less. Also as the speed increases the time lag of the current in the coil would make the repulsion work not so much against us.

[Steve220]

I see

Thanks Zooty,

You explained it very well
If you can time it just right, and only for the time required, I can see how it works.
There is the zero current at TDC and a little on each side of the repulsion and attraction to work with a properly timed short.
I know many different ways to bypass Lenz law have been tried in the past, but I still think it can be done.
I always thought that somehow a person might be able to disrupt a magnetic field for a split second to cause it to stumble, just a little.
It would not have to be 100%, just enough to gain a little ground each time around.
If that little ground could be scaled up, it would be huge.
Your work has given me an idea to check out for sure.

[toranarod]

I was pulling 980 m Amps out of the generator coils

created a dead short circuit across the coils and added the 1.5 Uf capacitor.
this is half wave loaded on the positive cycle only.
was able to get some really good results today this is looking good.

I over heated the coils and damaged them. They melted the former and came unglued from there base plate.

Winding some new one tomorrow.

this is the circuit for todays test.

[penno64]

Hi Rod,

3 steps forward 2 steps back

better than 2 steps forward 3 steps back

Great work

I think you're so close to nailing this


Regards, Penno

[minoly]

cap short

didn't mean to get into any trouble here.
Redrichie actually only noted that this was something Romero was experimenting with. not that he discoverd it himself.
I have not read all the posts after mine yet thought I better type this out ASAP.


What if any results did you get w/o the switch?
using the cap in parallel to the coil and prior to the FWBR as I have been experimenting w/ this AM?

Patrick

[Zooty]

I think it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to coil shorting. Romerouk recently told people to get their rotors speeding up under coil short/load before proceeding to the full replication as it can be applied to most applications, not just the muller style motor.

[toranarod]

I think it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to coil shorting. Romerouk recently told people to get their rotors speeding up under coil short/load before proceeding to the full replication as it can be applied to most applications, not just the muller style motor.

I agree I want to look into this for all motor generator applications.
Romero said he choose the muller for this technique. its the technique thats important not the muller motor so much.
I am going to run some test on my other motor using the same technique as i have on the muller.
My Adams motor is larger and can handle the abuse . It has .5 ohm 9 m H coils 6000 Gauss magnets.
I also had it at COP 1 so close it stabilized its battery.

[minoly]

good idea - not just coil shorting though. should be coil shorting causes increase speed in rotor or something like that.
Patrick

[ashtweth]

Ash,
what result did he get, all I saw him do was spin it up. did I miss something?
Zero sure is thorough w/ his build so far.

Redrichie made a nice find, shorting coils w/ an AC cap right on the pickup coil

Patrick

Hi Pat, at 12 seconds of the video he states if you were watching Saturday evening i had the Muller spinning on its own power, maybe i got that wrong sorry about that .

Ash

[ren]

I was pulling 980 m Amps out of the generator coils

created a dead short circuit across the coils and added the 1.5 Uf capacitor.
this is half wave loaded on the positive cycle only.
was able to get some really good results today this is looking good.

I over heated the coils and damaged them. They melted the former and came unglued from there base plate.

Winding some new one tomorrow.

this is the circuit for todays test.

This is awesome news Rod. I want to try it as soon as I can.

Can you share your circuit for triggering the Mosfet? Also what is the Fet rated at?

Will you be looking to short it on the + and - of the cycle eventually?

How did you measure the 980ma? With a load permanently shorted to the cap?

Excellent work

Regards

[Joit]

he states if you were watching Saturday evening i had the Muller spinning on its own power
Ash

Yup Ash, before he did speed it up with a Dremel, now he wind and test Coils and installed the first one, as you see in the Video. But hes very busy at the moment because of a Tornado there and he may work not that much on it as he want to.

[minoly]

I was pulling 980 m Amps out of the generator coils

created a dead short circuit across the coils and added the 1.5 Uf capacitor.
this is half wave loaded on the positive cycle only.
was able to get some really good results today this is looking good.

I over heated the coils and damaged them. They melted the former and came unglued from there base plate.

Winding some new one tomorrow.

this is the circuit for todays test.

yes, this works much better with the cap where you put it. I did not have luck w/ the caps I purchased today and the coils I have on hand so I will start winding new coils to test, but the effect is definitely there. it changes the timing where you put it, just like you say.
awesome
Rod, can you start the new thread with this one. I'll add JB's/Bolt's Amplified ssg short to it, but I like your's better. others can add theirs as well.

Patrick