The Electric Field.

[Dave45]

mK1
Here's a pic of magnetic field if you reverse the magnet the lines run in a different direction and your right its about a 22.5 degree angle

I try to get better pics tonight.

[Jbignes5]

Wow...

Do you see a six sided geometric shape forming around the magnet? Then the lines go out from each plane of the shape!

Oh and another thing. Those might not be magnetic lines you are seeing there. Remember that diodes are voltage devices. That means they respond to potentials and not magnetic. Well not strongly twords magnetic. It does effect the diode but I would think the magnetic influences are the large blobs of color in between the crisp dots and lines. I'll keep looking at it to see if there is some pattern that matches this description. I think it is clear it does but I'll keep looking at it to see...

Do me a favor and press just your finger on the lcd display and snap a shot so we can see if it is some kind of pressure effect as well....

[Dave45]

I havent taken any more pics yet, but Jbignes5 your right it is six sided, Iv attached a pic.
One thing Iv noticed if you rotate the mag on its axis the field dosent move but if you lay the magnet on its side it does rotate, going to have to think about that one awhile.

[Dave45]

The drawing I made is very simplified, the structure is quite complex there seems to be three lines of force.

[Jbignes5]

A few questions...

Does the six sided geometric shape turn if you twist the magnet? If it doesn't then it has to be with the way the led's are oriented. If the shape moves then we might have something.

Yes it doesn't seem that the lines going from the surfaces of this six sided shape are even or uniform. Some sides have 2-4 lines and range from highest strength to lower.

Do you still have the scope? I'm assuming that was from a pocket scope? Doesn't that hurt the screens operation afterwards?

You know I was thinking that the six sided shape is from the particles pointing inwards. You know the pyramids. These just happen to be 3 sided pyramids. If you think about the fields around these two inward pointing pyramids the bases would be offset. We got to remember that the screen is two dimensional. It is only showing the slice of the field. Kinda like a cat scan does. If we could input the pictures of the field as the magnet approaches the 2d plane we could generate a view of the full field in three dimensions. But that only works if it isn't an artifact of the lcd screen.....

[gravityblock]

You guys are viewing the H-Field and not the B-Field. I thought a distinction should be made. Why are we talking about magnetic fields in a topic on electric fields.

It didn't take long to abandon the electric field in favor of the magnetic field. What am I missing?

Thanks,

GB

[gravityblock]

The H-field lines inside a uniform magnet point in the opposite direction of the B-field lines. Inside a material, the H-field and B-field may differ in relative magnitude and even direction. This is the reason why the iron shows a different polarity than copper. Also, some RG-6 cable has an inner conductor which is magnetic.

GB

[Jbignes5]

Hello....

Hey if we look at what we can see, which are the magnetic lines, we can infer the electric lines.

[gravityblock]

Hey if we look at what we can see, which are the magnetic lines, we can infer the electric lines.

I don't think it works like that Jbig. You're seeing the H-field, which is one of the components of the magnetic field. Let me make my case. An electric field will divert a flow of water, but a magnet attached to a piece of metal will not divert a flow of water. Try it, and see for your self. What your seeing on the LCD screen, is a ferro-fluid aligning itself with the magnetic field of the magnet. A magnet placed in front of a LCD screen with a ferrofluid inside it, is no different than a magnet placed in front of a piece of metal where it doesn't divert the flow of water. The water isn't diverted because there is no electric field present, so how can you infer electric lines.

This is very similar to Sirzerp's method of viewing magnetic field lines with two ferrofluid Hele-Shaw cells constructed with LED's to facilitate the imaging of magnetic field lines. He deduces that magnetically induced photonic band gap arrays similar to electrostatic liquid crystal operation are responsible for the photographed images. You can't infer an electric field with this method either. With the LCD, the magnet is driving the ferrofluid and not the electrostatc operation of the monitor.

GB

[Jbignes5]

Hello?????

I don't think it works like that Jbig. You're seeing the H-field, which is one of the components of the magnetic field. Let me make my case. An electric field will divert a flow of water, but a magnet attached to a piece of metal will not divert a flow of water. Try it, and see for your self. What your seeing on the LCD screen, is a ferro-fluid aligning itself with the magnetic field of the magnet. A magnet placed in front of a LCD screen with a ferrofluid inside it, is no different than a magnet placed in front of a piece of metal where it doesn't divert the flow of water. The water isn't diverted because there is no electric field present, so how can you infer electric lines.

This is very similar to Sirzerp's method of viewing magnetic field lines with two ferrofluid Hele-Shaw cells constructed with LED's to facilitate the imaging of magnetic field lines. He deduces that magnetically induced photonic band gap arrays similar to electrostatic liquid crystal operation are responsible for the photographed images. You can't infer an electric field with this method either. In the LCD, the magnet is driving the ferrofluid and not the electrostatc operation of the monitor. Read Sirzerp's papers and you will see it is the H-field being viewed.

GB

Let me ask you something, I know I said lcd but I meant led display. There is no ferro fluid in an led display. Led's are voltage devices. Thats why they work for such little current. In fact in most cases you want to restrict the flow of current to the led and let it use just the voltage to work. Since led's are voltage base I would suspect they would react to an electric field. In fact that is what I am relying on because we have experimental evidence that led's can be lit like that via an exciter field. This field is the electric field and not of a magnetic field.

Yes I would expect the led to still respond to a heavy magnetic field but I don't think it responds that much. Try putting a magnet next to a regular led while it is running and you will see that it matters little to the led. Thats because there is aluminum in the unit. Thats an important relationship.

I think there is two kinds of fields being emitted from a magnet. One field reacts to aluminum(electric) and the other reacts to copper(magnetic). This is evident because even though aluminum doesn't stick to a magnet it still shows the same slowing of a magnet if it is dropped into a tube of both materials.

It could be what creates the north and south poles on the magnet. Two distinctly different fields reacting in the same manner but one is reliant on the other. One field goes out from the center and the other lays on those spikes or lines emitted from the core. For simplicity sake I would say the magnetic is totally driven by the electric field. Meaning that the electric field is the origination and the magnetic are merely wave that condense in layers around the lines.

Most objects on the smaller scales have that geometry. A ball with spines coming out of it. Let me see if I can link some examples.







This last one is most interesting. Seems to be built on a frame then radiating out of the lines. It's funny when biological material grows it has to have something to grow on or around. Networks are there already and biological matter grows around those network connections. Why because they have energy going trough them already. The matter is attracted to the flow and literally envelops part of that network.

[gravityblock]

Here's a publication from Sirzerp on Photographing-Magnetic-Lines-of-Constant-Scalar-Potential. You can download all of Sirzerp's work at this link.

The Dynamic Etalon is another method, and was conceived and developed as an economical tool for magnetic research. Basically, this unique lens is a Fabry-Perot Interferometer combined with a modified Hele-Shaw cell. The nano particle mixture within the lens respond dynamically in the presence of a magnetic field.

A real-time holographic representation of magnetic flux is clearly visible to the observer or image recorder, unlike a typical computer generated pattern plotted by software.

I'm sorry, but you can't infer electric lines with these methods. Don't kill the messenger.

GB

[gravityblock]

Let me ask you something, I know I said lcd but I meant led display. There is no ferro fluid in an led display. Led's are voltage devices. Thats why they work for such little current. In fact in most cases you want to restrict the flow of current to the led and let it use just the voltage to work. Since led's are voltage base I would suspect they would react to an electric field. In fact that is what I am relying on because we have experimental evidence that led's can be lit like that via an exciter field. This field is the electric field and not of a magnetic field.

Yes I would expect the led to still respond to a heavy magnetic field but I don't think it responds that much. Try putting a magnet next to a regular led while it is running and you will see that it matters little to the led. Thats because there is aluminum in the unit. Thats an important relationship.

I think there is two kinds of fields being emitted from a magnet. One field reacts to aluminum(electric) and the other reacts to copper(magnetic). This is evident because even though aluminum doesn't stick to a magnet it still shows the same slowing of a magnet if it is dropped into a tube of both materials.

It could be what creates the north and south poles on the magnet. Two distinctly different fields reacting in the same manner but one is reliant on the other. One field goes out from the center and the other lays on those spikes or lines emitted from the core. For simplicity sake I would say the magnetic is totally driven by the electric field. Meaning that the electric field is the origination and the magnetic are merely wave that condense in layers around the lines.

Most objects on the smaller scales have that geometry. A ball with spines coming out of it. Let me see if I can link some examples.

This last one is most interesting. Seems to be built on a frame then radiating out of the lines. It's funny when biological material grows it has to have something to grow on or around. Networks are there already and biological matter grows around those network connections. Why because they have energy going trough them already. The matter is attracted to the flow and literally envelops part of that network.

My computer monitor doesn't respond to a magnetic field. I suspect it is a LED display with no ferro-fluid. I also suspect Dave's computer monitor is an electrostatic driven ferro-fluid display or a CRT monitor, thus the reason for it responding to an external magnetic field.

GB

[Jbignes5]

nope you can't with his methods and I'll tell you why...

He uses ferro fluids and that changes the field as it reacts to the field. If we could not take pictures of magnetic fields then MRI scans would not work. But in the method you have shown me it wont work. MIT have a good way to show the electric field. Grass seeds in oil. A very simple method.

I was looking for a slightly different method to actively detect the field. The led screen method might be the only way to do such...

Gotcha mine didn't respond either.. Hmmm...

[gravityblock]

He uses ferro fluids and that changes the field as it reacts to the field. If we could not take pictures of magnetic fields then MRI scans would not work. But in the method you have shown me it wont work. MIT have a good way to show the electric field. Grass seeds in oil. A very simple method.

I was looking for a slightly different method to actively detect the field. The led screen method might be the only way to do such...

Gotcha mine didn't respond either.. Hmmm...

Jbig,

The method I've shown you is the same method you said you could infer electric field lines with. I'm not the one who said that method would work, but it was you who said the electric field lines could be inferred with that method, and I've been arguing otherwise from the beginning. I hope we're on the same page now.

GB

[gravityblock]

Jbig,

You can also detect an electric field with a magnet, but there must be relative motion between them. When a pole of a magnet is in relative motion to a "pole" of an electret, they push each other at 90 degrees to the direction of motion. An electret is just a permenant electric field. There's quite of few methods really.

GB