super charger "bingo"

[cikljamas]

I just tried two bingos with negative to the negative, charging big 12
batteries, and result is :
one bingo : 750 mA input / 500 mA output (67%)
two bingos : 1120 mA input / 750 mA output (63 %)

Then i tried two bingos with negative to the positive (negative to the negative
somehow does not work)charging small 1,2 nimh batt. and the result was : 350 mA input / 600 mA output ( ? %)

Sucahyo, i think that we might misunderstand each other cause
i am not sure if you were aware that i charge AA batteries and big 12 V
batteries with (in both cases) big 12 V battery, so it could be the reason
for great (or maybe not such great) discrepancy between your and mine
measurements since you got your input/output results by charging small
1,2 V batteries with same kind (1,2V) batteries ?

In a few hours i ll try to see same measurement results with stingo, after
charging process (charging new 1,2V batteries) is finished ...

[sucahyo]

Wow, it is cheep, i must check out, but i think that one Tip 41 C is here 2 $, and TIP 32 is not available at all...

I guess it is because I don't have to pay postal.

So, you use different transistors, it must be why results are also different, though the method of measuring is also different : i charge AA bateries using 12 V as source, and you use AA bateries not only as charging but as source batteries too...However, it is good to know what you got as result comparing stingo/bingo that way too...

Yes, I will try it with higher voltage later.

Yes, but you also replaced 10 K resistor with 1 K, and 500 K with 50 K on bingo too...

Yes . But since the max output is in the pot range I think it still valid.

I had problems with one of my TIP 2955 (different producer) when i tried to test my second bingo, after i replaced with the TIP 2995 made by the same producer that made TIP 3055 bingo started to work as it should... So, if different producer can produce such problem what to expect of different transistors...Soon i am going to receive my KSC 5027...Then we ll see...

That is the kind of problem I am worried about...

How do you comment that on stingo happen to be at lowestvalue of potentiometer, and on bingo happen to be somewhere before max?

Meaning that maximum output current is obtained with 100 ohm at stingo. and somewhere under 50K at bingo. That means both circuit need different tuning to get the maximum result.

I only have one amp meter, so finding the most efficient result is impossible, sorry.

It could be very interesting if we combine bingo with stingo... But do you have some concrete ideas about that and do you mean that this combination would be better than combine of the same kind (bingo with bingo / stingo with stingo) ???

I think bingo and stingo have different kind of strength. I think bingo could be better on high input power and stingo on low input power. Combining also need to take this into consideration.

My combiner is not meant only for stingo, notice that on my first combiner, I use joule thief too.

I just tried two bingos with negative to the negative, charging big 12
batteries, and result is :
one bingo : 750 mA input / 500 mA output (67%)
two bingos : 1120 mA input / 750 mA output (63 %)

This means combining the bingo produce worse result ?

Then i tried two bingos with negative to the positive (negative to the negative somehow does not work)charging small 1,2 nimh batt. and the result was : 350 mA input / 600 mA output ( ? %)

I see it as 20%.

Sucahyo, i think that we might misunderstand each other cause i am not sure if you were aware that i charge AA batteries and big 12 V batteries with (in both cases) big 12 V battery, so it could be the reason for great (or maybe not such great) discrepancy between your and mine measurements since you got your input/output results by charging small 1,2 V batteries with same kind (1,2V) batteries ?

I consider that too. I will try with higher input voltage too.

[sucahyo]

Result:
11.5V PS source charging two nicad
bingo max output at 1220mA draw 3.54 A
stingo max output at 650mA draw 1.47 A

will make video of this later.

[cikljamas]

Result:
11.5V PS source charging two nicad
bingo max output at 1220mA draw 3.54 A
stingo max output at 650mA draw 1.47 A

will make video of this later.

Well it is again close result(efficiency), but stingo still better than bingo !
But how come my measurements convinced me contrary ?
Maybe the key is in sweet spot , for example when i use
that negative-negative method my pot. is closed (no resistance),
it means the resistance is 10 K , and that is the sweet spot, when
i use normal method increasing pot. i can get better efficiency.
Who knows, it seems we have to make more measurements...

Anyway, i think it is good to know that we have both of them : stingo and
bingo, just like two brothers !

[sucahyo]

Yes .

That could be. Notice that I don't have two amp meter, so the result may not be favorable to bingo.

here is the video:
YouTube - Comparing bingo and stingo

[torpex]

Hi all

Both circuits very interesting.

I think to make a more accurate comparison would be convenient to use a non inductive resistor load instead of batteries.

The status of the batteries to be charged can vary widely, giving different results for different experiments.

Regards

[sucahyo]

I think to make a more accurate comparison would be convenient to use a non inductive resistor load instead of batteries.

The status of the batteries to be charged can vary widely, giving different results for different experiments.

Agree that battery can vary widely, non inductive resistor load would give stable comparison. But it may not means better because circuit behaviour can different.

From what I learn so far, if the implementation is different, different coil, differetn transistor, etc, it is better to try all.

Also, finding a non inductive resistor load a low as battery impedance is harder I think.



BTW, cikljamas just to confirm circuit. This bellow is a picture of a PNP transistor. For bingo circuit, which leg the source battery positive connect to?

[cikljamas]

BTW, cikljamas just to confirm circuit. This bellow is a picture of a PNP transistor. For bingo circuit, which leg the source battery positive connect to?

It is hard to see the mark of this transistor but i suppose it is TIP 2955,
so you know where the emitter is ? But if you need me to confirm you
whatever your reason could be, than here is my answer : first leg from
the right if you look at the picture you posted, am i right ?

I tried reverse mode with bingo, it doesnt work, so that is why you
can be sure that i did not switch the emitter and the collector...

But i must thank you once again for your clue (negative-negative)...
It works very, very good with bingo, i tested it today again, and i
got even better result than yesterday 700/500 mA !

I tried today also Slayer big JT in negative-negative mode, does not
work well at all, but as i said : with bingo it works marvellous !

Then i tested bingo with your FWBR combiner and i did not see
any improvement charging 12 V battery with 12 V battery, but
if i remember well i did not notice improvement with stingo too
when i had charged 12 V with 12 V batt., but when i tested stingo
and FWBR combiner charging AA batt. then i see improvement
and advantage of FWBR combiner, and i use it with stingo always...

Rgds !

[sucahyo]

It is hard to see the mark of this transistor but i suppose it is TIP 2955, so you know where the emitter is ? But if you need me to confirm you whatever your reason could be, than here is my answer : first leg from the right if you look at the picture you posted, am i right ?

I tried reverse mode with bingo, it doesnt work, so that is why you can be sure that i did not switch the emitter and the collector...

I see. Yes, thanks for the info. Sorry for asking, I can not think any other reason why we get different result.

This means the difference is still a mistery ................

But i must thank you once again for your clue (negative-negative)... It works very, very good with bingo, i tested it today again, and i got even better result than yesterday 700/500 mA !

I tried today also Slayer big JT in negative-negative mode, does not work well at all, but as i said : with bingo it works marvellous !

That is great result .

Would it be possible for you to do battery swapping test? Swapping the load with the source for each 2 minutes or so. Add ungrounded water connection to the load positive too.

See if the battery reduce charge between each swapping. Put voltmeter at the load and at the source. Amp meter may reduce efficiency.

This is because conventionally, your efficiency already exceed SSG. And if SSG with lower efficiency can obtain COP>1, then it is possible your circuit already exceed it.


The last time I did it, the battery drop 0.01V in each 15 second.

Then i tested bingo with your FWBR combiner and i did not see any improvement charging 12 V battery with 12 V battery, but
if i remember well i did not notice improvement with stingo too when i had charged 12 V with 12 V batt., but when i tested stingo and FWBR combiner charging AA batt. then i see improvement and advantage of FWBR combiner, and i use it with stingo always...

Ok.

[cikljamas]

I see. Yes, thanks for the info. Sorry for asking, I can not think any other reason why we get different result.

This means the difference is still a mistery ................


That is great result .

Would it be possible for you to do battery swapping test? Swapping the load with the source for each 2 minutes or so. Add ungrounded water connection to the load positive too.

See if the battery reduce charge between each swapping. Put voltmeter at the load and at the source. Amp meter may reduce efficiency.

This is because conventionally, your efficiency already exceed SSG. And if SSG with lower efficiency can obtain COP>1, then it is possible your circuit already exceed it.


The last time I did it, the battery drop 0.01V in each 15 second.


Ok.

Wow, i must admit although i saw before this ideas here on energetic forum
(ungrounded water,battery swapping) i dont know how these things should
contribute rising efficiency of bingo charging ? But if you suggest me to do
this i believe you that there must be some good reason for that. I am always
ready to obey your orders , so i am ready to fulfill your desires again, but
for example could you explain me a few things :
1. how do you mean i should underground water ?
2. swapping battery is good for what ? why each two minutes ?
3. how SSG with lower efficiency can obtain cop > 1
I thought that SSG cop > 1 is just gossip, nothing more, never saw proof
for such claims !
4. Conventionally ? What do you mean by that ?

Regards !

[sucahyo]

1. how do you mean i should underground water ?

No, it is not underground water. It is ungrounded water, water inside container that is electrically isolated from ground. It is a substitute for human body.

I get measureable gain:
YouTube - Touching the radiant output increase output voltage

Connect load positive to some volume of water that have no connection to ground.

2. swapping battery is good for what ? why each two minutes ?

Some friend mention 30 second is best for tesla switch battery swapping. consider 2 minutes as hunch. I think 30 seconds is the minimum.

3. how SSG with lower efficiency can obtain cop > 1
I thought that SSG cop > 1 is just gossip, nothing more, never saw proof
for such claims !

That COP>1 is measured differently, by comparing what going in battery to what is going out. I don't know how to measure using that method ..... See Kevin post on SSG:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/365-bedini-schoolgirl.html

The easiest test is by battery swapping, if your voltage increase even after swapping around, then you get COP>1.

4. Conventionally ? What do you mean by that ?

Conventionally = comparing input power to power being absorbed to battery.

The suggested method is comparing input power to stored power in battery

[cikljamas]

No, it is not underground water. It is ungrounded water, water inside container that is electrically isolated from ground. It is a substitute for human body.
Connect load positive to some volume of water that have no connection to ground.

I tried this test with ungrounded water, but i am still not sure how we
electrically isolate container from ground. I mean if i did something wrong
it could be the reason for nothing to happen ?...So no connection to ground means to put the water in container that has to be of plastic or
it has to levitate or it is enough to put container on the wood floor or we
must not use container made of aluminium or any metal whatsoever ?

Regarding swapping the batteries i do not see the point of that method,
because if i have 80 % efficiency of charging device it is still too far away
from 100 %, so how you can compensate this 20 % by just swapping batteries ? I mean whenever you swap the batteries you always loose
this 20 % of energy, so it is pointless IMHO...

I just saw interesting video, this guy pointed out that the key of making
selfcharging device is in combination of different kind of devices, so maybe
we should too think about using some relays or automatic battery swapper
as this guy showed in this video, and plus some kind of impulsator and
than hope to get OU ? Here is his video :
YouTube - Perpetual Self Runner.MPG

Of course that i would also rather make something simpler, i adore simplicity,
but maybe we just can not achieve our goal using just one kind of device as
it is stingo or bingo or impulsator...

Rgds !

[sucahyo]

I tried this test with ungrounded water, but i am still not sure how we electrically isolate container from ground. I mean if i did something wrong it could be the reason for nothing to happen ?...So no connection to ground means to put the water in container that has to be of plastic or it has to levitate or it is enough to put container on the wood floor or we must not use container made of aluminium or any metal whatsoever ?

Using plastic container to isolate it from ground is fine. I notice right away if my wife lift off or drop the radiant sleeping aid positive right away.

If she lift it off, the voltage drop to a quarter, if she drop it (ground it), the voltage drop to a half.

Regarding swapping the batteries i do not see the point of that method, because if i have 80 % efficiency of charging device it is still too far away from 100 %, so how you can compensate this 20 % by just swapping batteries ? I mean whenever you swap the batteries you always loose this 20 % of energy, so it is pointless IMHO...

You are relying to much on one measurement method, which is not accurate. My previous battery swapping video show that I drop 0.01V on each two minutes. I use circuit that has efficiency of 60% at best.
That means if I only measure it for 1 minute, my COP = 1.

COP=1 even though it measured as 60%.

Swapping battery purposes is not to increase efficiency but to show you the real efficiency of your charger. For instance, stingo may perform better than Bedini monopole on paper, but do it really better on battery swapping test?

I just saw interesting video, this guy pointed out that the key of making selfcharging device is in combination of different kind of devices, so maybe we should too think about using some relays or automatic battery swapper as this guy showed in this video, and plus some kind of impulsator and than hope to get OU ?

I would use the one that show best result on battery swapping test and improve it.

We can then use the less efficient method to make it self charging. We try to get COP>2 and then use 0.5<COP<1 method to make it self charging.

[cikljamas]

You are relying to much on one measurement method, which is not accurate. My previous battery swapping video show that I drop 0.01V on each two minutes. I use circuit that has efficiency of 60% at best.
That means if I only measure it for 1 minute, my COP = 1.

COP=1 even though it measured as 60%.

Thanks for plastic explanation about plastic container !
But above words i do understand from the language point of view, but
i do not understand how we could claim COP = 1 if we measure it as 60 %...
Obviously i have to have more experience in electronics to find out how it
is possible, but maybe you could help me with a little clue about that, and
maybe also (since your words interested me more and more) with a little
clue about using what kind of battery swapper to make this test tomorrow ?

[B]

We can then use the less efficient method to make it self charging. We try to get COP>2 and then use 0.5<COP<1 method to make it self charging.

This sound like science fiction, but i hope you are going to explain me that
too...
We make conversation pretty decent time, but reading this words of you
i fall in temptation to think i do not know you at all .
I mean if i did not know you i would think that you are some lunatic or
that you just play some game with me, but since i feel i know you enough
till now i am very happy after reading your optimistic words about COP > 1
because although i have no idea how to achieve this goal i believe now we
are very close, all i have to do is wait your next post in which you are going
to give me crucial advices with all important details that i need to accomplish
my 75-80 %(i measured yesterday efficiency again and these are the
numbers) bingo device to be clearly OU !!!
Or i just misunderstood something again ?

Cheers and thanks for this optimism i feel now again even if it splash
and disappear soon ! I hope it wont !

[sucahyo]

i do not understand how we could claim COP = 1 if we measure it as 60 %...

Me previous battery swapping video show that during 1 minutes of testing, the battery voltage starting voltage do not drop even after discharged and charged. But it do not increase too. That can only happen if we have COP=1, well maybe 99.99%. That is definitely not 60%.

The measurement of comparing output to input show 60%. But real test show there is no decrease on the source. Which one that you believe?

This kinda similar to your previous video, that show the difference in battery voltage drop while powering monopole and stingo. By COP stingo is about the same as monopole. But how come when running both charging each other the stingo consume much less?

Don't you become wondering why such big difference occur if both supposed to have around the same efficiency? If both circuit have same COP then both supposed to make both battery drop voltage at the same rate. If it is different then the COP must be wrong.

clue about using what kind of battery swapper to make this test tomorrow ?

This is the one I use before, but with updated circuit:


I am using relay with 4 contact point. This can also be made with two DPDT or four SPDT.

Or i just misunderstood something again ?

What I mean is we have to aim to get COP>1 for separate input and output first.

Even Bedini do not aim for self charging system, he prefer to use separate input and output battery. Mentioning charging a discharging battery is bad for the battery or something.

I forget where I read it, self charging reduce efficiency. So, if we want COP>1 self charging system, we have to have a system with more COP than just COP>1.

Watki system COP supposed to be more than 4. If I remember correctly, self charging COP is 2.5, almost half the actual. If you want to get COP>1 self charging system, get COP>2 system first.

I think we should do it step by step. We have to be able to get at least COP>1 with separate input and output. When we succeed this step, then we improve it to make it self charging.

I am serious. I think COP>1 self charging as twice harder to achieve than COP>1 of separate input and output.

I do not mean to dicourage you. Since you seems prefer self charging, you have to use COP>2 as goal. I think COP>1 simply not enough for self charging system.