ALCOHOL can be a GAS and Biofuels

[1NRG24Seven]

@Brenie, Thanx for the support and welcome to the thread.

I would not be driving much if fuel cost that much here. Fuel prices are rising here and will most likely exceed the last price peek of a few years ago and go even higher by harvest time here in the USA 2010. I told a farmer a few years back of the comming fuel prices going up by harvest and he emmediatly ordered a tanker truck full and said later it was the fastest $10,000 bucks he ever made, as that is what he saved on 10,000 gallons of needed fuel...he saved $1.00 per gallon in less than 3 months.

So get ready for comming higher prices here in the USA this year as its already climbing now. $4-6 bucks a gallon for Diesel is comming.

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[brenie]

Hello again 24Seven, hope all is going ok.
Just a line to let you know we are looking forward to any further information.

Regards, Bren.

[1NRG24Seven]

Potassium Hydroxide Measurements

I was finally able to get this weighing out of the potassium done today and get some pics taken so you can see.

What I did here was to weigh out the potassium in a 1 gallon measuring disposable tub, then I transferred the contents of that gallon tub into a 1 quart measuring disposable tub so that I now use the liquid measurement system instead of the weigh it out every time system. I have used this method for years and it works fine as exact weights are not that critical.

The quart tub of dry potassium shows over 26oz, it turns out i did not get exactly a 1 quart container as one quart is 32oz. I have used 32oz. for years as my measurement for 1.75 lbs of dry potassium hydroxide. Doing it this way I can scoop out quickly 30-32oz of potassium and get the lid back on my 5 gallon bucket to seal it up air tight as potassium hydroxide attracts moisture out of the air like a sponge. If it is left open too long you will have large chunks stuck together making it more difficult to use the dry system of measurement here.

WARNING: WEAR EYE PROTECTION, HEAVY RUBBER GLOVES, AND A RESPIRATOR WHEN WORKING WITH POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE, HIGHLY CORROSIVE BASE, WILL EAT FLESH AND CAUSE SERIOUS BURNS CAN CAUSE BLINDNESS, BREATHING DUST WILL BURN AND DAMAGE LUNGS. PAPER STYLE DUST MASKS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH PROTECTION. IF YOUR SWEATING AND EXPOSED TO DUST IT MAY START TO BURN FACE OR OTHER EXPOSED SKIN AREAS, FLUSH WITH PLENTY OF COLD WATER. I ASSUME NO LIABILITY FOR ANYONE USING POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!

WHEN MIXED WITH METHYL ALCOHOL THE REACTION CREATES METHYL HYDROXIDE TO WHICH THE FUMES ARE DEADLY, USE IN WELL VENTILATED AREAS PREFERABLY OUTDOORS TO LESSEN THE CHANGES OF BREATHING FUMES ALWAYS WEAR A RESPIRATOR WHEN STANDING OVER METHYL HYDROXIDE SOLUTION WHILE MIXING. REACTION CAUSES SOLUTION TO HEAT UP, ADDING TOO MUCH TOO FAST IN A PLASTIC CONTAINER MAY CAUSE IT TO MELT OR WEAKEN. USE COMMON SENSE WHEN WORKING WITH THIS CHEMICAL AND NEVER MIX THIS FORMULA WITHOUT PROPER PROTECTION. CONSULT YOUR LOCAL HAZ-MAT CREW TO FIND OUT WHAT PROPER PROTECTION IS NEEDED FOR THIS CHEMICAL MIXTURE.

Consider yourselves placed on notice and warned.

1 and 3/4 lbs or 1.75lbs (30-32 oz) is what I use in 5 gallons of Methanol (Methyl Alcohol) to mix into 25 gallon of my clean clear used veggie oil as mentioned earlier in this thread. That is of course after the oil has been preheated to aprox. 150* F.

If you are not allowing your oil to settle out then double the amount of potassium per 5 gallon of methanol or 3.0lbs (60-640z).

Potassium is almost double the cost of lye. I pay $1.00 per lb for potassium by the 50lb bags. I pour off about 25 lbs of the bag into a 5 gallon bucket that i have a good sealing lid for to keep airtight. Then I wrap the bag up and clamp it to keep all air out.

Each 5 gallons of mixed Methyl Hydroxide is added to 25 gallons of hot oil. Therefor if you are making lets say 5 gallon batches of bio-diesel you simply do the math 1 gallon of Methyl Hydroxide to 5 gallons of hot oil. The dry weight of potassium is about 6oz, so use a smaller measuring cup with oz measurements on it...to be exact its 5.6oz again this is NOT WEIGHT its liquid oz measuring system by sight. if using the 5 gallon + 1 gallon of Methyl Hydroxide your going to need at minimum a 6 gallon container to mix in. This is why I like using 25 gallon + 5 gallons Methyl Hydroxide in 30 gallon drums.

When mixing the potassium into the 5 gallons of alcohol I NEVER USE AN ELECTRIC MOTOR MIXER for this AS IT IS HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE, ANY SPARK EVEN SLIGHTLY FROM AN ELECTRIC DRILL COULD SET IT OFF. If you do use an electric drill use a fan close by to flush the air with a wind around the motor to keep any vapors from reaching it, USE THIS METHOD AT YOUR OWN RISK! I use a cheap harbor freight 3/8" air drill now with a 1/4 inch rod about 30" long and a 4" dia. 1/8" thick flat metal disk welded to the rod so as to reduced any chances of splashing the mixture on me as it is HIGHLY TOXIC and can build up in your bloodstream and cause death. I mix for 3-5 minutes or until alcohol no longer shows any signs of being cloudy.

Pics to be shown in coming posts of liquid measuring tubs containing dry potassium hydroxide.

Good Day!!!
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[1NRG24Seven]

More Mixing Dangers

I forgot to mention it again here and I believe I mentioned it before in the thread that Methanol boils at 160 degree F. I mention it again here because of the importance for one to understand that if you pour methanol into oil that is at 160 degrees F. or above you will be wearing the oil. It instantly wants to be a gas and causes the oil to be blown out of your mixing container. I would seriously consider for anyone making bio-diesel to get a thermostat or non contact laser type thermostat when mixing this formula. Even a turkey or roast poke in type thermostat will do, but by all means know your temperatures before you pour. Its better to be safe then sorry, hot oil all over you at 150 degrees F is no laughing matter.

Good Day!!
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[sucahyo]

If spark is dangerous, there are people who mention that copper or brass do not spark.

[1NRG24Seven]

If spark is dangerous, there are people who mention that copper or brass do not spark.

Thanx for the reminder sucahyo you are right, great point, its never a bad idea to do whatever it is to make any process or procedure safer.

Here are the pics for a visual of the potassium hydroxide being dry weighed into disposable measuring cups. I use these type tubs cause they are first cheap, the potassium does not effect the plastic but will eventually remove the ink so you can no longer read the increments but no big deal as they are cheap enough I can live with that expense. Potassium at this purity level will etch glass once it gets moist and sits on the glass awhile. Using the households glass measuring cups therefor might get you into some trouble and be more expensive to replace once the ink etching is no longer usable. After each use even with the plastic throw away type you want to rinse them out well with fresh water and then dry with a towel as the remaining flakes and dust will attract moisture out of the air in a matter of less than a minute, and will then be a concentrated simi-liquid highly corrosive base that will cause the next use for the potassium to stick to it more readily creating a build up. Another option would be to simply seal it in the same bucket you keep the potassium in and keep it air tight, this is the method I generally use, but even then still have to rinse them out occasionally.

If you still want to weigh out each batch you can, but remember any potassium dust on your scales and if not cleaned off will be corrosive to them. So you will want to clean them well after each use. This is why I use the eyeball it dry ounce method here.

Good Day!!
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[sucahyo]

I think you should mention the type of plastic you are using. It is important because KOH / potassium hydroxide will melt some plastic type, if not mistaken the milky/PVC one.

If KOH melt the plastic, can NaOH replace it? since NaOH do not melt the one melted by KOH. Also KOH do not melt the one melted by NaOH.

Is the plastic the hard clear transparent type?

[1NRG24Seven]

I think you should mention the type of plastic you are using. It is important because KOH / potassium hydroxide will melt some plastic type, if not mistaken the milky/PVC one.

If KOH melt the plastic, can NaOH replace it? since NaOH do not melt the one melted by KOH. Also KOH do not melt the one melted by NaOH.

Is the plastic the hard clear transparent type?

sucahyo: The context of the use of the word "melt" I was making reference to the heat generated which if high enough could melt any plastic, in this case being the 5 gallon plastic pale or buckets commonly found behind food service providers that originally had pickles or other food stuff in them in bulk. What type of plastic it is I have no clue but you are right that chemicals react with plastics and do a chemical meltdown. I have not experience this yet making bio-diesel as most the plastics I have exposed the methyl hydroxide to were as stated pretty much limited to the common 5 gallon buckets used for the packaging of various products including household paint materials.

If you feel it is important will post a link latter from a plastic manufacture that sell many types of plastic containers and what chemicals each type of plastic will work with, if this will help.

I will go ahead and post this link from USplastics, I know they have a PDF download at this site somewhere that lists all the types of plastics and what chemicals each type can be used for, hope that helps.
Stack/Nest Totes Category | Stack Totes, Nest Totes and Nesting Tote Boxes. | U.S. Plastic Corp.

Good Day!!
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[1NRG24Seven]

Color Chart for mixing Methyl Hydroxide

I made up a quick color comparison to follow while mixing the methyl hydroxide into the heated oil. If after 5 minutes or so of mixing the color of the reaction should be a deep dark brown...almost looks black in fact. Now if the color of your reaction looks more like a rusty red brown color you will need to add some more potassium flakes to the mix until it changes to your dark brown color, but do this slowly a little at a time and take a mental note of how much more in dry ounces that you added. wait at least 5 minutes between adding more as the flakes must be totally melted and mixed before it will react.

A good system would be to add the same amount each time and keep tract of how many times you added more to know how much more you actually added. Then if you go back to the original amount and it happens again you can simply add the addition amount at one time and save a lot of time doing so. If you continue the third time with original amount to get the red color you can assume the rest of your oil stock for that batch will be the same and simply mix all the potassium at once into your methyl alcohol, thereby adjusting the formula.

I like using this method instead of the tartation tests normally taught by many bio diesel makers as its faster and I rarely have to adjust my formula, sometimes it does happen tho, but not that often.

Here is the color chart, the big PLUS SIGN + means to add potassium to the mix. When you see the color difference you will know it and now you will know what to do about it when you see it.

I just found out Lye or sodium hydroxide is no longer available off the shelf as its now a controlled substance as many meth labs use it, what a crock I say. Anyway its just another good reason to use potassium hydroxide instead.

Good Day!!
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[1NRG24Seven]

I need to remind you here to remember that the potassium is mixed at 1.75lbs for clean oil and up to double that for creamier oil (30-60 oz using the dry visual for liquid oz system).

The reason I mention that here is if your color is on the redder side i would add 1/4 of that original amount again...or about 7-8 oz. If you did that 4 times you would be double the 1.75lbs or double the 30 oz, this should make it easier so you don't endlessly add 1 more oz and take too much time waiting for it to change color as if the oil cooled down too much it would never react anyway, so you would never know if you reached it or not and waste a lot of potassium doing so.

Good Day!!
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[Shamus]

You're kidding, right? NaOH is a controlled substance now? Wow. Just wow. Thank God you can still make KOH with wood ash. Next thing you know, trees will be a controlled substance. Just think of the poor willows and their bark. :P

[1NRG24Seven]

You're kidding, right? NaOH is a controlled substance now? Wow. Just wow. Thank God you can still make KOH with wood ash. Next thing you know, trees will be a controlled substance. Just think of the poor willows and their bark. :P

No not kidding, at least in the State of Oregon I know its true, anyone else in the USA please post if you find this to be true from your State. Next time at the super market see if they have any Red Devil Lye drain opener. Red Devil is pure lye. Also found at most hardware stores, Home Depot, Wall Mart...check it out and see if you can get it.

Good Day!!
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[sucahyo]

Your info is very valuable .

The type of plastic is important because strong concentration will melt some type of plastic. Anyone should test the plastic with high concentration to see if the plastic melt or not. I found that plastic for drinking water melted by damp NaOH powder.

If the plastic container have cap, cap need to be tested too, in case it is made from different kind of plastic.

[1NRG24Seven]

Diagram

Can you post a diagram showing process steps?

Here is my simplest diagram

Heat oil to 150F>>>>Add methyl Hydroxide after its mixed>>>mix for 15-30 min>>>let settle for 8 hours >>>remove bio-diesel from on top of the glycerine place in new holding tank or container>>.let settle an addition 21 days>>>remove fuel from settling tank making sure you do not disturb the bottom of the tank>>burn your fuel

[1NRG24Seven]

Coming Bio-Diesel Videos

I will be making up some bio-diesel soon and will make a series of videos on the step by step process so everyone is welcome to subscribe to my you tube channel and ask to be notified when i post the new videos.

My You Tube Channel:

YouTube - 1NRG24Seven's Channel

Good Day!!
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