Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[ilandtan]

That's one of the idea Don Smith said was essential to have in his coil devices.

Now that you have the knowledge of what resonant coils are, the next question is... now what? If you look at Don Smith's explanation of his devices, it seems that he uses minuscule exciter energy which he calls high voltage modules and moves it forward through varying stages.

Don Smith: Remember I use separate modules for differing functions. Exiting from the L-2 the energy goes into a module which changes the High Frequency and High Voltage to pulsating DC which goes to the next module. This module takes the High Voltage DC and temporarily stores it in a super capacitor and special battery combination, which yields instantaneous power foreword to a heavy duty converter module which shapes and prepares the energy for end use requirements. Depending on the switching devices used this energy can be very substantial. In addition I add in other modules which use the energy radiated and normally wasted, such that feedback from this wasted energy results in self sustainable energy devices which require no external power once running.

[Dwane]

Don Smith slayer

Hi Guys,
Here are a couple of photo's of a centre coupling to a Don Smith type wound coil CW + CCW. I have connected the centre tap to the base of the Tip31 and for the moment left the ends open. I am getting radiation lighting the flouro's. However, one output performs much better than the other. Also, as is shown in the two photo's, The output shows greater energy at the ends and not very much in the middle. It is the same for both coils. I take this as the Slayer being able to work with the Don Smith configuration for collecting electricity at one output and current at the opposite end with alternated wound coils.

Coils are wound by weight of copper. L2 #30

I'll be off for a while as work pressure is mounting.

Regards

Dwane

[ilandtan]

I see you have Radiation now, so there is a good indication your coils are resonating. There are ways to gather the energy without using a ferrite rod, and I sent you that schematic. I wound my first slayer, but the next ones I built where from an Ebay source that winds them and sells them reasonably. This way I could order three coils, with close winding characteristics. It was just easier for me.

[Dwane]

Hi ilandtan,
I can get 6mm arc at 12v, but my current jumps up to 900ma. My L1 is 3mm wire weighted to the L2. Tip31 gets hot quickly.

I do understand about the overunity with the Tesla coils. The radiant energy has to be captured in a more unique manner. However, this brings me back to the resonance issue. It being so important, what might the best method of getting two coils to react, tht the resonance can be viewed. I get the tank method of Don Smith as this is a multiplier effect for the pulse to drive the L! coil. And, when I think about it the Slayer simulates this. Very clever.

In the photo, I have used another L1 with 3mm wire, drops the current down. Voltage for the two lights 10v.

I don't have a ferrite rod for the other part of the test on ther video you recommended. I'll shop around and see if I can get something.

I am also working on the Figuera device. This week I should get some parts I have being made for a preliminary structure. Again, simple as this system seems, it will have its own unique attributes.

Once again, thankyou

Dwane

[Dwane]

Resonance

Hi ilandtan,
here is the circuit I have been using. I don't have the schotsky diodes so I have used 1n4148. When I say hot, it is medium hot, does not burn the fingers at 6v. current draw at what i think it the optimum is 550ma. I get a lot of dual images on the scope.

[ilandtan]

Detecting resonance is simple, it will radiate. If you have it tuned so it's oscillation and feedback are working to produce Tesla waves, you will be able to light a florescent tube wirelessly. Do you see in my video where I show I am radiating? Then I insert the ferrite core. If you're transistor is getting hot at 6V input, you're circuit isn't right.

If you message me, I will send you the circuit I used for the above video.

[Dwane]

If you are talking about changing the length of the L1 coil, yes that totally changes the tuning and the relative strength of potential extracted at L2. There are other factors that change the performance of the overall slayer. The type of transistors is definitely a factor, I had better luck with the PNP. Believe it or not, and I tested it twice, which way the L1 coil is wound around L2 matters, one way works better. I didn't use a scope, I just tested the arc length of the top load. With a 12V battery, I was able to get a 1/4" arc, with the best tuning I achieved. I wanted to keep the simplicity of one L1 coil, but I have seen the performance of four L1 coils, and it remarkable. However you can do much with a 12V L1 driven circuit. With a configuration I had, I was able to light 110V 15watt LED to about 90%, that was equal to a 90 Watt incandescent, because it was 100 Watt equivalent bulb.

Once you have a good strong arc off your L2, and you are ready to dabble with load running, and wireless transmission let me know, I have some suggestions. The best thing about the Slayer is that, we can see the effects of resonant coils without playing with lethal potentials.

Hi ilandtan,
Thanks for the advice. I get what you are telling me. However, I do not seem to be able to see the wood for the trees! I am using the scope to look for incremental increases as I adjust the position of the input to L1.
The image I get on the base of the transistor, I am not able to quantify such that I understand the strength of efficiency of the feedback from L2. Also, I am not sure what I will see if there is resonance!

Winding direction is a good tip. By pure luck I have two L1 coils with different weights which are CW and CCW. If my L2 is CW, I should be using CCW L1 to my mind and with the negative connection at the bottom of the coil. Small issues, but important. Haven't tried the arc length, will look at that tomorrow. Off to bed.

Also, I am only running at 6v and my current changes greatly about the centre point of one of my L1 coils. I have a tip31c that I am using and it gets quite hot. Double the voltage quadruple the power! Blow the Tip off!

Regards

Dwane

[ilandtan]

If you are talking about changing the length of the L1 coil, yes that totally changes the tuning and the relative strength of potential extracted at L2. There are other factors that change the performance of the overall slayer. The type of transistors is definitely a factor, I had better luck with the PNP. Believe it or not, and I tested it twice, which way the L1 coil is wound around L2 matters, one way works better. I didn't use a scope, I just tested the arc length of the top load. With a 12V battery, I was able to get a 1/4" arc, with the best tuning I achieved. I wanted to keep the simplicity of one L1 coil, but I have seen the performance of four L1 coils, and it remarkable. However you can do much with a 12V L1 driven circuit. With a configuration I had, I was able to light 110V 15watt LED to about 90%, that was equal to a 90 Watt incandescent, because it was 100 Watt equivalent bulb.

Once you have a good strong arc off your L2, and you are ready to dabble with load running, and wireless transmission let me know, I have some suggestions. The best thing about the Slayer is that, we can see the effects of resonant coils without playing with lethal potentials.

[Dwane]

Coil winder

Here is the coil winder I got on ebay - "Cheap" for what is does! To accommodate longer coils and slower winding I have made up some shaft extenders using allthread rod and pipe. I have removed the original handle 8:1 ratio - too hard to wind, and put a handle on the direct ratio 1:1 shaft. I wound the coil in the previous post in 2 minutes!! Using very long lengths will require a support bearing at the end of the shaft.

Current listing

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/U-S-Solid-Dual-Purpose-Electric-Manual-Hand-Coil-Winder-Winding-Machine/173085854943?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Enjoy

[Dwane]

Slayer

Hi ilandtan,
Raining today so no building site! I have built a "slayer", and some of the results confound me somewhat. I am not sure how to measure resonance, unless it is by current flow. I'll try that later. Sun is out so back to work!

Here are some photos. They are taken with the changing variable being moving the connection down the L1 coil. Not much change, but change there is. As the L1 gets smaller so too does the output frequency! I would not have expected that. Also, the L2 output gradually increases in output. However, I am using a magnetic coupling so the measurement is somewhat proportional to the distance of the pick anf the L2 coil.

I have had to modify my little coil winder to accommodate the longer coil wind. I can now wind literally up to 2 meters! - with a support at the end of the shaft!! I post these pics for those who are hand windingto see how cheap it can be to get a small winding machine and modify it in a simle manner. I have also out a handle on the direct shaft to get a 1:1 wind ratio. Machine is 8:1! Too fast.

[Dwane]

You can go a long time spinning your wheels trying to make L1 and L2 resonate. I built a Slayer circuit, it's far less lethal, and you know it will work, because the feedback of L2 sets the frequency of L1 so it auto tunes. You can see the effects of resonance, and once you got the circuit optimized by modifying L1 length to get the most output ( a common Tesla builder strategy) you can use those wire lengths and excite L1 with a NST, and L2 should sing.

Once you have experience with a win of resonant L1 and L2, the next step is to use values of wire length to get an L2 singing at 200 Khz. Why? The only value of tuning that Don Smith actually divulges and I found out that (17,000 x 11.772) is approximately 200 Khz. This is where I am working towards.

Hi Ilandtan,
Thanks for the heads up! Yes, many wheels to spin. I think the resonance we are looking for might be a little bit more reactive than neat sine wave outputs.

I find your analysis of Don's frequency intriguing to say the least. I am thinking that your breakdown is for the L1. If so this is a pretty big coil. I do know that the wavelength calculations in the smith.pdf, can be achievable. I have wound HF L2 of 16 turns at approx 70mm diameter I get a resonant frequency at around 21.2Mhz. This corresponds closely with Don's quarter wavelength calculation of wire length. But, I also have a small coil wound with 19.4 meters of wire and get approximately 865Khz where Don's guide suggeste 1.46Mhz. The difference is in the number of wraps or diameter of the coil.

What you say about the slayer is excellent and obvious when one thinks about it. I am guessing that the 200Khz is the nst-> L1 breakdown for a particular L2. Even so, That is an awful large coil! Unless, the initiative is to allow the L2 to dominate the L1 input. As you say, adjust this to the output of the L2. However, Although 4:1 is the preferred ratio for resonance, there is nothing to stop a different matrix. The issue would be to make the L1 coil think that it is getting the right frequency.

Will have to be next weekend before I can get back onto it. Many thanks for the enlightenment!

regards

Dwane

[ilandtan]

i am guessing that the 200Khz is the L1 breakdown for a particular L2. Even so, That is an awful large coil! Unless, the initiative is to allow the L2 to dominate the L1 input. As you say, adjust this to the output of the L2.

Dwane

I guess we have to ask ourselves why we we are pursuing this technologies, and it is to find ways to harness effects that might lead us to over-unity. If you make a device arbitrary from the ambient then it's doubtful that we will be able to achieve anything extra-ordinary. As for the size of coils, remember that you are making a tuned circuit, and in Don's devices he often uses a tank circuit for L1/L2, so you can cut the coil size differential by placing appropriate capacitors inline, for tuning for either side.

With no consideration for the ambient, with a simple Slayer I achieved this:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLlF4R6aUfE[/VIDEO]

It wont run your house, but it starts to make you think. But ultimately a resonant L1/L2 alone won't give us over-unity. I believe there are ideas omitted in the Don Smith tomes that we have to pull from his communications and lectures. If you are not aware, a great deal of his thoughts are cached here

I have been poking around Don Smith's ideas for about three years, and they guy has some insight, fuzzy math... but he explains ideas that seem impossible, and then you start seeing what he says about grounding, and cooling and it convinces you that he might be right about everything.

[Dwane]

You can go a long time spinning your wheels trying to make L1 and L2 resonate. I built a Slayer circuit, it's far less lethal, and you know it will work, because the feedback of L2 sets the frequency of L1 so it auto tunes. You can see the effects of resonance, and once you got the circuit optimized by modifying L1 length to get the most output ( a common Tesla builder strategy) you can use those wire lengths and excite L1 with a NST, and L2 should sing.

Once you have experience with a win of resonant L1 and L2, the next step is to use values of wire length to get an L2 singing at 200 Khz. Why? The only value of tuning that Don Smith actually divulges and I found out that (17,000 x 11.772) is approximately 200 Khz. This is where I am working towards.

Hi Ilandtan,
Thanks for the heads up! Yes, many wheels to spin. I think the resonance we are looking for might be a little bit more reactive than neat sine wave outputs.

I find your analysis of Don's frequency intriguing to say the least. I am thinking that your breakdown is for the L1. If so this is a pretty big coil. I do know that the wavelength calculations in the smith.pdf, can be achievable. I have wound HF L2 of 16 turns at approx 70mm diameter I get a resonant frequency at around 21.2Mhz. This corresponds closely with Don's quarter wavelength calculation of wire length. But, I also have a small coil wound with 19.4 meters of wire and get approximately 865Khz where Don's guide suggeste 1.46Mhz. The difference is in the number of wraps or diameter of the coil.

What you say about the slayer is excellent and obvious when one thinks about it. i am guessing that the 200Khz is the L1 breakdown for a particular L2. Even so, That is an awful large coil! Unless, the initiative is to allow the L2 to dominate the L1 input. As you say, adjust this to the output of the L2.

Will have to be next weekend before i can get back onto it. Many thanks for the enlightenment!

regards

Dwane

[Dwane]

Don Test

Hi Guys,
I have had a brief period of inactivity!! I have been mucking around with the Don Smith coil arrangeents. First, I have been unable to rationalise his formula for frequency based upon the length of wire and predetermined values: i.e. 75.29 divided by Mhz and length of wire. This does not work! There is another parameter that is missing, which I believe might be related to diameter of coil.

Antway, not to waste time, I have wound a few coils L! and L2 with weight of wire being the optimal choice. Here are a couple of shots of the setup and result. What I cannot get at the moment is the slight delay on L2. Any suggestions? Could it be that there is a slight frequency difference between L1 and L2?

Thanks

Dwane

[ilandtan]

p75213 I had the same issues trying to make the base circuit. That looks like a standard parallel tank circuit L1 coil exciter. You should be able able to do it. Series or Parallel it does the same thing; ocillation. You are rectifying your AC from the NST, it fills the cap, when the cap is full, it dumps across the switch(Spark Gap) and energy creates a magnetic field on the coil. Cap is empty but as soon as it discharged it the coil collapses and returns energy back to the cap. The two components; cap and coil are energy storage devices. They teeter-totter the energy back in form in an oscillation. They create a standing wave at the resonant frequency.
The math is Here

The tough thing are the spark gaps, because too large and the potential can't jump. Also spark gap placement depending on the tank type. I worked with small engine spark gaps or gas discharge tubes (GDTs). That's why you see tesla coil with adjustable gaps. Your video uses those bulbs, and I bet they don't last long. GDTs have rated voltages.

Your problem is not the recipe, it's the ingredients. If you are interested on simulation, look up circuit simulations for a Tesla coil. (Hint) There are easier ways of getting a standing wave L1 coil, and resonant L2. But understand having a resonant L1 and L2 alone, doesn't buy this massive energy source. At least from my experiments.