Big Joule Theif

[Vaporizer]

I was considering paint myself. It would be thinner than tape and the closer the wire to the toroid the better from what I have read.
I was going to use the clear satin finish Krylon urethane 10 min dry I have. A metallic paint may cause some induction issues IMHO.
I see no reason why a person can't remove the sharp edges(if present) and then paint allowing it to smooth everything over.
My 2 3" toroids arrived with what looks like a rust colored primer(very smooth) and my 10 2 3/8" arrived bare.

Comments appreciated.

[Vaporizer]

Another question for the more experienced here than I am. (that would be abt anyone! lol) Theory is one thing, doing is another and I respect that.

I've read that with JT's, LED's are better light than cfl's. Bang for your buck ma wise. I have 4 9w that I will use, I already have them.........plus 25 or so 12,000mcd from other projects long ago.
I was cruising ebay and found these LED's:
High Power 1W StrawHat 8mm White LED Lamp Light 240,000mcd @ 300ma.
But I also found 10mm white 140,000mcd that are stated @ 20ma. ?
Seems the 10mm would be a much more efficient LED to use unless I'm missing something obvious or its mis-stated. Both are rated with a forward dc voltage of 3.4-3.6v.

Anyone here with experience on these that can comment or recommend?
Thanks in advance!

[Tectalabyss]

Removing sharp edges

I was considering paint myself. It would be thinner than tape and the closer the wire to the toroid the better from what I have read.
I was going to use the clear satin finish Krylon urethane 10 min dry I have. A metallic paint may cause some induction issues IMHO.
I see no reason why a person can't remove the sharp edges(if present) and then paint allowing it to smooth everything over.
My 2 3" toroids arrived with what looks like a rust colored primer(very smooth) and my 10 2 3/8" arrived bare.

Comments appreciated.

Hello Vaporizer and All
@Vaporizer Yes removing the sharp edges before coated sounds on the mark and well thought out I have even sprayed uncoated magnets with cheap paint to help keep them from chipping work's pretty well.I have ran a JT with 6 and 6 removed led from e/c ran 64 leds in series on the secondary not real bright but a low drain on the 1.5 volt AA battery I will have to run a test to see how long it will run. Not sure of how many winds on the secondary lost count .when I get time I will try around 400 to 750 and try the modified cfl. Tec

[Tectalabyss]

Hi Tec,

I was thinking about a spray paint - KRYLON Amazon.com: Krylon Spray Paint, 12 oz Emerald Green: Home Improvement or one of these products Caswell Inc. - Plasti Dip Products

I am thinking about the masking tape as well, but since I will be rewinding 360 turns I would like it to be more permanent.

I will let you know.

pentiger

Hello Pentiger.
Vaporizer had some good ideals. Has for myself I've always just used cheap spray paint I just try not to get it to thick. And I use a small variable resistor to help find the sweet spot I thank lidmotor for that.Hope this help's Tec

[Tectalabyss]

Another question for the more experienced here than I am. (that would be abt anyone! lol) Theory is one thing, doing is another and I respect that.

I've read that with JT's, LED's are better light than cfl's. Bang for your buck ma wise. I have 4 9w that I will use, I already have them.........plus 25 or so 12,000mcd from other projects long ago.
I was cruising ebay and found these LED's:
High Power 1W StrawHat 8mm White LED Lamp Light 240,000mcd @ 300ma.
But I also found 10mm white 140,000mcd that are stated @ 20ma. ?
Seems the 10mm would be a much more efficient LED to use unless I'm missing something obvious or its mis-stated. Both are rated with a forward dc voltage of 3.4-3.6v.

Anyone here with experience on these that can comment or recommend?
Thanks in advance!

Hello Vaporizer and All.
I've been running tests with the 5mm Flat tops/ strawhats / 10mm's right now I just don't have enough data to give you a for sure answer if you have a bread board than you can power a few at a time maybe series and parallel to answer your question, sorry I couldn't be of more help. Tec

[Vaporizer]

@ Tectalabyss,
Any cheap paint should be fine as long as its not a metallic type. I was sitting here examining my new toroids and I'll try to take some pics and post. The 3" painted ones feel as smooth as glass. The bare ones you can feel sharp edges and if you run your fingernail along the sharp edges, its very gritty feeling and grooves my fingernail. Not good! I always end up moving my windings tighter and this would surely cut the enamel wire coating. The paint would stop the shorting to the conductive ferrite toroid at least. I always lose track of my large # winds.

I'll try my dremel tool with a sandstone and also emery cloth taking pics before and after it all including paint. Hopefully the emery cloth will work as everyone doesnt have a dremel. We will soon know.

[NickZ]

Guys:
I just wind the coil with tightly stretch masking tape, and also after each layer, so that you can see where where the last turn was, as you're winding it.
Good luck with those big coils.
NZ

[Vaporizer]

Ok.......success! Decided to try 1st not using the dremel since many will not have one. Ferrite was soft as I expected and the rough edges can be smoothed with a few light strokes of a round file or with 360-400 emery cloth. Total time was abt 5 min to do all edges. The pic shows the sharp edges and where I removed it with emery paper. It's out in the garage now drying. I sanded all surfaces, the faces were glossy, to help the paint stick. I found a can of plain red enamel too.

As soon as its dry I'll post the finished one next to a "raw" one.

[Vaporizer]

@ Tectalabyss,
Are your 10mm like these?
50p 10mm SUPER BRIGHT WHITE LED LAMP 140Kmcd FREE SHIP - eBay (item 370279921071 end time Dec-18-10 21:21:23 PST)

I would be more inclined to believe 200ma at that output. I'm going to buy some brighter than my 5mm 12000mcd's. They are rated @ 20-30ma, but a few yrs old.
Stacking 5 up for 700,000mcd expecting 100ma is way diff than if they are actually 200ma making it 1A ! Current draw from the high voltage of the secondary is strange to say the least with JT's & LEDs.
Any current draw numbers of what you do have would be appreciated.
Something like the type( size & rated output), current draw bright wit 1, 5, 10 in parallel would be great if not to much trouble.

The 8mm 1w @300ma........I'm just having trouble running all this out for a final possible layout. Since every JT is diff, the variable resistor is gold for sweet spot finding. Lidmotors 13w cfl was running abt 700-800ma I think. Maybe this explains my confusion on most light per ma issue.

Edit: Tectalabyss, I did find that post abt the LED left across the E-C...it was by Jenna. When the secondary output is established, you remove the E-C LED for less current draw on the source battery. So, if you had 6 across there they were indeed on the source side as I mentioned. 2 weeks is still impressive. The post is #700 of this thread. If the secondary load isn't present you can kill the transistor. The BJT didn't use a pickup winding so the collapse came full back to the JT.

[Tectalabyss]

Mil amp draw

@ Tectalabyss,
Are your 10mm like these?
50p 10mm SUPER BRIGHT WHITE LED LAMP 140Kmcd FREE SHIP - eBay (item 370279921071 end time Dec-18-10 21:21:23 PST)

I would be more inclined to believe 200ma at that output. I'm going to buy some brighter than my 5mm 12000mcd's. They are rated @ 20-30ma, but a few yrs old.
Stacking 5 up for 700,000mcd expecting 100ma is way diff than if they are actually 200ma making it 1A ! Current draw from the high voltage of the secondary is strange to say the least with JT's & LEDs.
Any current draw numbers of what you do have would be appreciated.
Something like the type( size & rated output), current draw bright wit 1, 5, 10 in parallel would be great if not to much trouble.

The 8mm 1w @300ma........I'm just having trouble running all this out for a final possible layout. Since every JT is diff, the variable resistor is gold for sweet spot finding. Lidmotors 13w cfl was running abt 700-800ma I think. Maybe this explains my confusion on most light per ma issue.

Edit: Tectalabyss, I did find that post abt the LED left across the E-C...it was by Jenna. When the secondary output is established, you remove the E-C LED for less current draw on the source battery. So, if you had 6 across there they were indeed on the source side as I mentioned. 2 weeks is still impressive. The post is #700 of this thread. If the secondary load isn't present you can kill the transistor. The BJT didn't use a pickup winding so the collapse came full back to the JT.

Hello Vaporizer and All.
Migraines have kept me down.I have got a few readings(" 20 pc 5mm straw hat leds on the secondary read 100 mil-amps. 24 pc 10mm leds read a little over 150 mil-amps") I did use a resistor it seems to help with the amp draw and voltage I also had to use a bridge rectifier or it would not work at all the leds are not bright I think due to not enough windings.I took the amp draw off the battery with and with out the leds and with and with out the led on the E/C at the transistor.I had ran the 20pc 5mm strawhat leds for two days off the secondary and my battery was still at 1.3 volts.I will include some pictures of my mess I also included a pic of my test bread board Hope this helps. Tec

[NickZ]

@ Tec and All:
Your coil looks great, and from the report of the duty cycle test it sounds like it really can put out some juice, while drawing very littlle from the battery.
One of my Jtc is a one inch toroid with 76, 76 turns of 26 gauge magnet wire, and uses a Tip3055. I notice that it's led's light intensity and heat are very dependent on the resistor choice, and pot setting, among the other components. It is one of the more powerfull and heat resistant transistors are far as the output it can produce, but not that economical to run when given full throttle. If using a solar panel, it wouldn't matter.
I'm still don't know about the secondary being more economical to use for leds lights than the E - C rail output. But from the sound of your tests, you've done alot with it.
More test are neccessary...
NZ

[NickZ]

@ Vaporizer:
WOW!!! That nice orange coil is what we need lighting a big Christmas tree. You should go into the big toroids resale bussiness, we could bid for them...

[Vaporizer]

!st one done

Ok, I took the one from the previous pic, painted it, and here it is next to a "raw" one. Mucho better. Now I can do the other 9.
Wife is picking me up an assortment of lights tomorrow....I hope.
I'm hoping they have one of the Lights of America brand LED one. They seem to fair well. A friend is supposed to send me a few of the Cree big LED's from flashlights he's modded. 230 Lumens ea............

@ Nick,
In all honesty Nick, I did read complete threads here, at OU and saved many of the vids, pics , schematics and such. I made notes on the windings and wire gauges too. It's interesting to see where it all started and the improvements as time went by.
Most original JT's were a 1:1 wind(10 turns each side) with the LED in the E-C to show it worked and it ate the spike. The problem is as they added more at that connection point, E-C, it was working the transistor hard and was still directly on the source battery current, aided by the ring backs potential to allow it to light.
With the isolated secondary(some call tertiary or pickup) wind running the LED's, they are running 130 of them bright on a Christmas tree with a AA. I can't see that ever happening on the E-C junction.
A couple other things changed too during the evolution. The trigger winding went to 3 turns of a heavier gauge, the primary went to at least 9 turns for a 3:1 increase, then the secondary went to 350 turns of a finer gauge. Power is power and I've never seen a CFL lit from the E-C junction. They also added a 555 pulse timer that keeps the circuit "on" only 15% of the time. That's just fast enough to trigger the Base without seeing the light flicker. An 85% savings in current usage anyway you look at it giving much longer run times. The low power 555 draws 130 or 180ua. Yes ua. Abt 2 tenths of 1 ma. Well worth adding in IMHO.
Next came the permeability of the ferrite material. Most were using the "J" type but got varying sometimes strange results. Its value is 5000. Someone tried a type "W" material and the secondary winds dropped to abt 100 for the same results. The "W's" value is 10000. There is a type "H", but they are hard to find and expensive. They are rated at 15000 in permeability.

Oh..sorry.....here's the pic of it ready to wind.



All JT's still have little differences with each one you build. Like most, I bought parts as I read to make them only to find out 5 pages later before my order came in they found something better. Like transistors that will still trigger @ .2-3v, not .6-.8v. A learning experience to say the least, but a badge that most earn. I saw a few posts asking for the "best circuit". Usually from a new member. Most seemed unanswered as to say "build it and learn" or "at least read what we have posted for you".

[Vaporizer]

@ Tectalabyss,
I missed the pics! Sorry. Looks pretty good.
I had an order set to go to the "Goldmine" , ate dinner, and it all went away!
I had a breadboard on it like yours. I have 1 and can't find it. I'm sure after 2 weeks of looking it will show up 10 seconds after I hit the order button.
I had a 6v solar panel on it so I can series it with my other for 12v.

We lose or electricity during the winter too like Nick. 2-3 days isn't uncommon and one bad ice storm left us 7 days with no electricity. Over the yrs I've made things to get by and even have a few magneto lights, one with an emergency weather radio in it. Be nice to have some nice AA's doing some "safe" work.
I'll get a pic of my Fuji 9w "U". It's abt 1/2 of what I'd like in brightness. It's done well over 10hrs on a single AA. Numbers say it should do 20hrs as is. I didn't charge the battery before the test. I'd dance to have it 10hrs at 2x the brightness.

[NickZ]

Vaporizer and All:
Sounds like you've done your home work on the Jtc.
Theoretically then, if you were to use let say 50 leds, at the C and E, and then tried the same 50 leds, at the secondary, both times using a brand new AA battery. Which set up would last longer, and put out the most amount of light intensity? I'm sure this type of test has already been done, even though each Jtc is a bit different and all, but there should be a general answer. Question is, does the secondary coil's output provide for a more Economical Use on the batteries duty cycle? It would seam so... or, is it just using up the AA battery's charge faster while it's lighting the bulbs.
It seams like Tec had some good results, I've never heard of anybody getting two weeks run time on any Jtc running on an AA battery.
@V: Your coils look super nice, you had some luck finding them. Hope they work as good as they look.
NZ