Gray Tube Replication

[antena]

Capacitors

Hallo
can any1 advice me where to get 2 capacitors 2microF 4000V ? I am from Europe Thanks a lot
Antena

[Aaron]

coil description

Hi Aaron,
I'm still waiting patiently (less so each day :-)) for my diodes to arrive. In the meantime, what size wire did you use for your coil, the one used to pop the magnets? It looks pretty thick from the videos, or maybe that's just the insulation. Also, roughly how many layers did you wind?
-Steve

Hi Steve,

This coil was a trifilar coil I used in quite a few Bedini circuit experiments. I didn't wind it just for this but the wire I used is:

Power winding 23
Recovery winding 23
Trigger winding 26

One of the coils for sure was 1000 turns...all 3 wires same amount of turns. Height of the coil where the wraps are is about 2.5~3 inches or so and the diameter of the core is exactly 3/4" diameter.

If you want to experiment with magnets, make sure the core is the exact same diameter. If you want to attract or repel coils, then make sure the cores of both coils are the same diameter.

The coil weights about 1.5 pounds from what I recall. Besides the enamel insulation on the copper itself, the only other insulation is just a few wraps of electric tape around the outside to keep it together.

Here is my thought on the coil wire diameter. I'm looking at moving to smaller and smaller diameter wire for as much resistance as possible. This is because when the cap discharges into negative resistance, it will have more gain. For this effect, I'm not really looking to dump a cap into low impedance...just the opposite because with this effect, the resistance amplifies negative energy since negative energy diverges strongly into the resistance.

Of course the results simply need to be compared between 18 and 23 and 26, etc... and the coil only needs one winding and not three. Just depends on what you want to do I have used the other windings as recovery back to a cap thru a bridge

[Ghst]

Frame by Frame Coil Jump

Here is the frame by frame pictures of the coil jump.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7223/coiljump1.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5854/coiljump2.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1315/coiljump3.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6640/coiljump4.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9973/coiljump5.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9906/coiljump6.jpg

I think if it had not been connected by the large wire to the other coil the top coil would have left the picture completely.

[stevend]

Grey tube coil specs

Hi Aaron,
I'm still waiting patiently (less so each day :-)) for my diodes to arrive. In the meantime, what size wire did you use for your coil, the one used to pop the magnets? It looks pretty thick from the videos, or maybe that's just the insulation. Also, roughly how many layers did you wind?
-Steve

[Ghst]

Ghst can pop coil from Tube!

These are the two microwave oven transformer primary coils. Using the 600 V 4 uF Cap, gave me these results. If you do a frame by frame (and you should) you will see that the coil repell slightly after the discharge happens. This seems strange to me. The coils do self align after discharge because of the heavy wire I use to connect then together. But this video plainly proves that the Ed Grey could use the discharges through the tube to do work.
YouTube - 6000 V 4 uF Cap Coil jump
Sorry, what seemed like a delay in the coils jump isn't. Studying the frame by frame shots proved otherwise. In the discharge shot the coil appears to not move, but It is actually a couple inches above the bottom coil and appears as a blurr because it moved so fast but is captured on this one frame. I use windows media player classic to view in slow motion or frame by frame.

[Ghst]

Ghst's Plasma Discharge

This is the Jar with the Brass washers and nylon. I am using a 6000 V 4uF cap. Its a monster Cap, thats 11" tall 4" X 3". This is charged by a 12V Battery voltage chopped into a ignition coil. The discharge is stunning! I think the Plasma escaped the "Jar"

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3476/ignitioncoilblast6kv4uf.jpg

[Marcoz]

Hello Spokane1
Thanks for your note.

I still have that same rod and the ignition coil laying around.
The experiment was done 14 years ago and the internet wasn't around yet.
I was still living at my parents house at the time, and after i left my mom threw about all my stuff away exept for the one metal box containing the parts from that experiment, strange but true.
I pulled the ignition coil out of my first car when i deliverd it to the scrap yard.
As i remember, it seemed rust played a major part in the process.
I mean there was a diffrence between fresh polished rods and the rusty old rod.
Years later i found out copper oxide was used in the first primitive solar cells.
Also there was a guy who painted Radium paint on a solar panel and the thing deliverd electricity for 17 Years day and night..
Maybe these strange radiations are light-like and therefore the oxide layer on the metal reacts to it, as in the photo electric effect or even maybe like in the meaning MOS of MOSFET ?
Much is still unknown and the only way we are going to know more is by experimenting so i will get back to my hobby now

Marcoz.

[Spokane1]

OU and Metallic Rods

Hello Spokane1

Thanks for the wondefull explenation.
Long before i knew about Gray or his conversion element, i was experimenting with car battery's and ignition coils to see if i could recharge a car battery by using spark discharges.
The igition coil was fed a heavy amplified square wave of +/- 35Khz , the output was fed through diodes to prevent back flow, and the output of the diodes was fed ,by a rather large spark, to a long metal rod (30 cm) i had placed right on top of the battery's positive terminal.
I hooked up the measuring devices and discoverd the battery didn't recharge much.
However, each time i came close to the rod i noticed a stinging sensation about my hands.
It was especially noticable when i introduced metal things like tools into the field around the rod.
I could feel it through the insulation of the tools, like some sort of pressure.
It did not hurt at all.
This all happend a long time ago and i never understood what it was untill i started to read about Tesla,Gray,Moray,Stubblefield,Bedini, and all of the men writing about the radiant energy event.

I will try to recreate that setup.
It was a long time ago but i can remember the details very well.

Thanks Marcoz.

Dear Marcoz,

Don't over look the importance of your metal rod in reproducing your past setup that exhibited the anomalous properties. Obvisouly the Gray CEST had a centeral rod but there are other related technologies that also employ it. The best example is the "Morton Beam" which was explored by Charles Morton in past issues of "Electric Spacecraft Journel". It was essentially a metal rod that was pulsed with a spark. Apparently a microwave beam of some sort is emitted from it. There was some follow up study on this effect at a major university, but I don't know how far they got with it.

According to an independant observer of Dr. Tesla's equipment from 1893 the spark gaps the were being used at the time were constructed with brass rods, not brass "donuts" as shown in the 1892 lecture publications.

In early spark radio the RF oscillations were not produced from RLC circuits as they were for a majority of the 20th century. They were produced as a result of a spark striking the solid metal balls that made up the spark gap. In fact the spark gap/ball electrode sub system was know as the "oscillator". The resulting frequency was 1.5 times the diameter of the ball. Rods were also employed for the same purpose. The first Marconi Wireless patent (which he stole from someone else) used an oscillator of this type. The RF was extracted directly from the balls or rods and fed to large capacitor plates that served as electrostatic antenna.

Gary Magratten observed his first anamolous activity in his CSET setup while using a 3/8 steel rod as his LV anode. (2004)

So, there is a good chance that a massive metalic rod is some part of this non-classical puzzle.

Spokane1

[Marcoz]

Hello Spokane1

Thanks for the wondefull explenation.
Long before i knew about Gray or his conversion element, i was experimenting with car battery's and ignition coils to see if i could recharge a car battery by using spark discharges.
The igition coil was fed a heavy amplified square wave of +/- 35Khz , the output was fed through diodes to prevent back flow, and the output of the diodes was fed ,by a rather large spark, to a long metal rod (30 cm) i had placed right on top of the battery's positive terminal.
I hooked up the measuring devices and discoverd the battery didn't recharge much.
However, each time i came close to the rod i noticed a stinging sensation about my hands.
It was especially noticable when i introduced metal things like tools into the field around the rod.
I could feel it through the insulation of the tools, like some sort of pressure.
It did not hurt at all.
This all happend a long time ago and i never understood what it was untill i started to read about Tesla,Gray,Moray,Stubblefield,Bedini, and all of the men writing about the radiant energy event.

I will try to recreate that setup.
It was a long time ago but i can remember the details very well.

Thanks Marcoz.

[Ghst]

Spokane1, That is great that you have the nails config working. That is the basic setup concept in how all my different configs work. Now you need to tighten the spacing Between the nails. (I Know, its easier said than done) Try for 1/16 spacing between the nails. That is why I have gone with the nylon screw with brass washers and nylon washers. any way there are many different things you can explore and test. Again this is great news! Have fun, and be safe!

[Spokane1]

Observations of Nail Comb Experiment

Spokane1, That looks good. But you need one of the caps wire connected directly to the LV electrode. Then just play with the electrode spacing, For my 2000V .9 uf cap to discharge it needs to be spaced 3/8" to 1/2"above the spark gap line.You wont the spark line to run to the yellow cap wire, (you may have to move it a little closer). once the HV is jumping the gaps to the yellow capacitor wire, start easing the LV electrode in starting at about one inch. You want to see whisper sparks (Lightening) jumping occasionally to the spark gap. When the cap charged to the dielectric break down voltage of the gap it will discharge. The closer the LV gap the faster the discharge rate. You'll have to tinker a bit to get the optimum spacing from the LV electrode to the multi spark gap. Be Careful!

I think this shows how I have the cap connected.
YouTube - Multiple spark gap using brass 3

Dear Ghst,

In my present setup (with two diode and one capacitor) I can get the output of the ignition coil to jump between 8 nails spaced 3/16" of an inch apart. As the capacitor charges up the number of discharges through the nails tapers off. I can reach 1500V in about 30 seconds.

When the LV anode is introduce the capacitor discharges to the LV anode and the recharge of the capacitor begins over again. With present spacings there is a discharge every 15 or so seconds with the capacitor voltage reaching about 900V.

This appears to be consistant with the circuit layout. The Electroscope reports that the charge on the side of the capacitor connected to the nails is positive - just as it should be.

The colors and intensity of the arc between the nails seems to be what one would expect from an ignition coil.

Something is being generated that interfers with the Triac control of the DC motor. Every so often the motor hick-ups when the arc is running. Could be common EMF.

Spokane1

[Spokane1]

Proper Design of Gray CEST Device

Dear Marcoz,

You certainly drew up a nice rendering of the "classical" CEST device from the patent documents. However, attempting to figure out what the proper design criteria is - is another matter. There are three versions of the CEST that are known about.

Version 1 - Notes taken by Ron Cole in late 1973 from the Van Nuys shop and later transcribed by John Bedini several years later. You are using one of these drawings for an example. According to John Bedini these "tubes" were spreadout on a work bench as if in some kind of prototype experiment. They were alledged to be supplying energy to a modified commercial DC motor (possibly the "Start Motor"). John never did see these tubes operate the motor. In 2005 John thought the tubes were a red hearing intended to distract observers and investors away from the ture non-classical process. I don't know if he has changed his mind since on this subject.

Version 2 - Three similiar devices were shown publicaly at the Jan 9, 1976 investors meeting in Burbank, CA as an integral part of the EMA6 motor. These devices are significantly different in form and layout from the 1973 CEST devices. The EMA6 motor only delivered 2 HP and according to scant records was never able to improve upon this performance.

Version 3 - A single device was made by Gray and his son Mark in 1985 in Councel, ID as part of a demonstration to produce promotion videos. This device was never connected to a load (according to Mark). It was pulsed with a huge 5KV power supply to produce arcs for the video.

This is not a lot of information to go on, however back to your question about the location of the spark gap. Version 1 & 3 definatly had the spark gap on the outside of the cylinders, just as you show. The version 2 devices are too obscured to determine if there is a spark gap at all. The center shaft is at least 1" in diameter and the over all length of the cylinders is only about 1.5". It is hard to see just how a gap would fit in such a layout.

What is "Right" is anybodies guess at the moment. We don't really have a clue as to why the spark gap was placed at that location, (let alone what the carbon is for) however there have been a number of fine proposals written by a few serious researchers.

Here is my current opinion on the matter:

The CSET devices were, at one time, a valid and promising conversion device that had the potential to generate a huge COP. Their purpose was to replace the multitude of unit power supplies used in the EMA4-E2 and eleminate the complex switching systems used in the original design. The concept was in development when the original inventor Marvin Cole dissapeared. It appers that E. V. Gray then hired Richard Hackenburger to continue the development. The attempt was a failure after three years of work. Perhaps something was over looked or not even known about from the beginning.

It is my belief that the CEST device is a 2nd or 3rd stage device that has to be fed a high concentration of RE to start with in order to operate properly. If classical HV is provided then only very limited results can be obtained. One must first develop a reliable RE generator before moving up to doing work with the CEST in the manor that Cole did. Someone might come up with a design and operation that will deliver the OU directly from classical electricity - then so much the better. Any experimental attempt will add to our collective understanding.

Don't expect to build a working device from the 1986 patent. Several well funded craftsmen have already done that. There is something (or a lot of things) missing from the patent and the Bedini Field Notes. But the general concept, I believe, is based on somthing that was almost magical.

Richard Hackenburger admitted in a phone conversation in 1976 that the foundation of the technology was to be found in the modified ignition coil. He didn't think that was the case just 6 months before. So keep popping arcs with those coils using every topology you can think of. Someone has got to get lucky.

Spokane1

[Spokane1]

Public Computers

Spokane1, Any libraries around? They usually have computers for people to use.
-Steve

Dear Steve,

Thanks for the positive suggestion, however it has been my experiance that the two local libraries that I can get to during off-work times have a line of people waiting for them for use in 30 min blocks. So the wait time can be between 30min and 2 hrs. There are a number of elderly people in my area that take full advantage of the library resources.

Spokane1

[Marcoz]

spark gap inside or outside grids??

Hello people

I noticed in the Gray patent the spark gap is outside the conversion grids, while in the Bedini drawing it is inside the conversion grids...

Is there anybody who can point out to the correct design and pherhaps also has a explenation as to why it has to be inside or outside the conversion grids?

Thanks
Marcoz

[stevend]

Tubes ready - waiting for diodes

Okay, I have two different tubes ready. One is made from leftover stuff and has a 1/2 inch rod and aluminium perforated cylinders. The other is all new and has a 1/4 inch rod and copper perforated cylinders but this one also has the ability to have the spark gap inside the perforated cylinder, outside but able to share ionized air, or outside but unable to share ionized air. See attached. Now I'm just waiting for the diodes to arrive.
-Steve