Electric Motor Secrets

[Peter Lindemann]

You Can Try It

Dear Peter,

I was considering to buy a small motorcycle engine for modification. Do you recommend this approach? I wanted to see if I could build a teal attraction engine by modifying it.

Thanks
Elias

Elias,

You can try it, but I think that this approach will present a lot of problems. It would give you a good bearing system and a balanced crank and piston. That is what is good about it. But the cylinder wall will act like a big shorted turn, so the magnetic structure will have to be mounted some distance from the block. However you approach this, it will require precision machine work. Do you have access to a mill and a lathe?

If you want to try it, I've got some ideas on how to set it up so you get two power strokes per revolution.

If you are going to purchase the small engine block, don't spend a lot of money.

Peter

[elias]

buying a motorcycle engine

Dear Peter,

I was considering to buy a small motorcycle engine for modification. Do you recommend this approach? I wanted to see if I could build a teal attraction engine by modifying it.

Thanks
Elias

[Peter Lindemann]

Almost Right

You could also use isolated strands to charge the capacitor and then discharge it to the main power battery. Just a thought.

Lighty and Jetijs,

The output on the isolated windings can be put directly back to the front of the circuit to off-set the input. That is the purpose of the isolated output arrangement. That is why I wanted you to test it out and get it working. You can test this for yourself.

Place your 10,000uf capacitor in parallel with the input battery and isolate it from the battery with one diode on the negative line with the cathode toward the battery. Then just connect the plus and minus from the isolated output directly to the capacitor plus and minus. This is the arrangement Lighty asked me about earlier. The energy recovered from the collapsing field charges the capacitor above the input battery thereby cutting off the input current from the supply. The next power pulse will first drain the excess recovered energy from the capacitor and then draw more from the battery to complete the pulse. This is the method to run the motor on full power but only draw the amount equal to the "losses" from the supply. As the power of these systems goes up, it becomes impossible to charge batteries with the recovered energy, so it must be recycled immediately. This is how to do it. When you can recycle 80% of the energy from each pulse, the motor will run at full power on 20% from the supply.

Jetijs, when you have the new rotor pieces cut, put smaller alignment holes out in the arms and use brass hardware to hold them together. Make the pieces over-sized and carefully machine them down in your lathe. Try to set the air-gap to .002 inches, or less. Also, mount the new rotor on a longer shaft so there is sufficient length for the rotor, bearings, commutator wheel and output pull to take power off for mechanical load testing.

You are making great progress. Keep up the great work.

Peter

[gabriolaman]

well if your looking for iron you might try your local metal working company they might know where to get if they dont got it some times high schools even got some or colleges if they dont they might know where to get it

[sykavy]

Yes, lighty
I was thinkink about that too, that way I would not have to use two battery sets. Also there is some radiant charge in these BEMF impulses that are going into the charging batteries, so there is also the battery conditioning process happening, just like with Bedini SSG. This means that if I swap these batteries around for some cycles, the battery capacity should increase to some degree.

congrads on your great work! What material did you use for your rotor?

Ive been looking for 100% iron for my project but can't find it anywhere!! I did some reading and iron doesn't hold the magnatism while steel does. In the SG motor, John Bedini uses welding rods, are they close to iron. I think they are soft steel. Do they hold magnatism? I'm really shocked to find it soooo hard to find some pure iron. It just seems so weird.

Ps Peter,
In one of your videos you spoke about black sand that can be molded in plastic and it magnatizes and releases magnatism very quickly with no retention of magnatism. Would this material be good for iron parts of my motor? At least to enclose the coil?

[Jetijs]

Yes, lighty
I was thinkink about that too, that way I would not have to use two battery sets. Also there is some radiant charge in these BEMF impulses that are going into the charging batteries, so there is also the battery conditioning process happening, just like with Bedini SSG. This means that if I swap these batteries around for some cycles, the battery capacity should increase to some degree.

[lighty]

Also, If I use the previous circuit without the isolated output, I have three strands of wire left unused.

You could also use isolated strands to charge the capacitor and then discharge it to the main power battery. Just a thought.

[Jetijs]

Ok, thanks Peter
I will order a new set of rotor plates from my laser cutting guy. In the mean time I will do some experimenting and post all the results and observations. Also I still have not changed the magnetic bolts in my rotor with non magnetic ones. And in closer inspection I noticed that the gaps in my timing wheel are a little too big, because the impulse turns off just a little bit after the middle of the 30 degree turn. So adjusting the gaps and changing the rotor bolts may be enough to gain the speed needed to get the correct waveform Also, If I use the previous circuit without the isolated output, I have three strands of wire left unused. Maybe I could add another transistor in my circuit and use four strands of wire as the power coils? That also should increase the speed.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Peter Lindemann]

Totally Correct

Jetijs,

Everything you reported and interpreted from the data is correct.

At this point, I would leave everything where it is electrically, and cut a new rotor piece with extremely close tolerances. This will allow the motor to produce more torque for the same electrical input and to speed up with the timing you have so it will run in the window you describe. You are absolutely correct, all you can have back is the Yellow Triangle, so the best system will only put in the matching Red Triangle before shutting off. We just have to get the maximum torque for the input.

In the meantime, you can play around with advancing or retarding the timing to get the maximum speed out of the rotor you have and watch how the power input/output ratio changes. You can also look at the output recoverable from the primary windings directly using the other output circuit. It should be slightly more than on the isolated windings, but very close.

Great work!!

Peter

[Jetijs]

Ok Peter
Here are my new results. I made a new scope shot just like the previous one, just this time I adjusted it so that the wave aligns to the grid for easier calculations. So Here is the shot with scope leads across the ampmeter on the primery negative side:



The amp draw decreases slowly while motor is running as the speed increases and it stabilizes at 1.46A at 22.9V after about two minutes of motor run time.
So next I put the ampmeter between the common negative of the coil and negative terminal of the charging battery. I put the scope leads across the ampmeter and got this waveform:



There are longer spikes, but in this picture they are hard to see. Here's a another picture so you can see the spikes better:

http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-15-piekabe_109__medium_.jpg

The readings are as follows:
Current draw from the primary battery is 1,46A at 22.9V. Current on the amp meter on the charging battery is 0,17A and the voltage on the charging battery is 25.6V. So when we calculate watts, we get 33,43W getting IN and 4,35W getting OUT. That would be about 13% that we are recovering, right?
Now, in order to recover more, we need to adjust everything so that the current waveform on the primary does not get that flat top, but is cut just before that so that the waveform would look like a straight line ( / ) and occupies only about 50% of the pulse area on the scope. This illustrates what I mean:


The red area represents the current going IN and the yellow is what we can recover. The longer the top flat line, the bigger the difference in the IN/OUT ratio. We need the waveform to be just like in the first illustration with the 50:50 ratio for maximum recovery. Am I right?
So what do we need to do, to get rid of that flat line? Reduce some more turns of the coil? Or should I better make the ON time a little bit shorter on my commutator wheel?
Thanks,
Jetijs

[Ted Ewert]

Everyone,

Here is a great "hi-tech" laugh. Enjoy!!!

Peter

Retro Encabulator

Now I see where Beardon gets his material.

[gabriolaman]

haha i remember seeint thats a while back i dunno what the hell hes sayinglol

[Peter Lindemann]

OFF TOPIC: Humorous Interlude

Everyone,

Here is a great "hi-tech" laugh. Enjoy!!!

Peter

Retro Encabulator

[Peter Lindemann]

Yes

Um, shouldn't that be (WaveFreq/4)*60? I mean we're trying to calculate RPM not RPS.

Lighty,

Of course, you are right. This time it was me "assuming" Jetijs (and everyone else) could figure out the relationship between frequency and RPM. Thanks for clarifying!!

Peter

[lighty]

Also, we can cross-check your tachometer and scope time-base since the RPM should equal the frequency of the wave-form divided by four, since there are 4 pulses per revolution.

Um, shouldn't that be (WaveFreq/4)*60? I mean we're trying to calculate RPM not RPS.