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[cheetoz49r]

first time

I want to make my own charger as well but I watch a movie on youtube that his using a printer motor and I want to use that as well I want to wind my own rotor but I never done it. I watch the movie but cannot figure out how he wound the wire and connected them to the battery and wiring here is the link any help please thank you
Bedini High Voltage Without D.C. Power Supply - YouTube

[mbrownn]

The stacked design gave me super bright neons. So much so it burned out several of them at once along with the diode. It didn't charge very well.

I strongly encourage you to test this further for charge efficiency. Using the Basic circuit place the negative of your volt meter on the negative of your supply battery and the positive of your volt meter on the positive of your charging battery. This will give an overall voltage so what you would normally see is a rise in voltage for the first few mins followed by the voltage holding static or dropping only a few tens of milivolts over the next few hours. If your voltage continues to rise then you may have reached overunity electrically but this assumes both batteries are of the same capacity and all the measurements are acurate.

You did not make it clear what your input voltage is but such strength of radiant is encouraging . Remember that lead acid batteries like to be charged slowly, that is over 20 hours to get very high efficiencies. If you adjust your setup to charge a battery over 20 hours I think you will be very close to 100% efficiency of charging, then when you add the work done by the motor you may find you are in overunity. The fans are usually in the 15 to 25% efficiency range when run this way but when added to a charge rate of 90+% you can see you can achieve overunity. Ok it is boring that you have to charge slowly but the reward is quite exciting.

My charge efficiency at C20 was 97% and my motor efficiency was in the 15 to 25% range, allowing for meter accuracy of + or - 3% I must be in overunity. This is the thing that almost everyone misses, with the simple fan you have to include the work done by the fan to get into overunity.

Keep testing your stacked fan and post the results please

[mbrownn]

Something that I believe the senior members already know: the brightness of the neon doesn't reflect on how well the unit will charge. My highest chargeing fans weren't the ones with the brighests neons.

The stacked design gave me super bright neons. So much so it burned out several of them at once along with the diode. It didn't charge very well.

If you are looking for speed of charge, Brian is correct but if you are looking for charge efficiency then the bright or super bright is what you are looking for as this is where you find the near 1 to 1 charging, especially at a C20 charge rate. It is also where there is little or no current detected in the output as most of the output is radiant.

Sorry to differ but we need to be clear on this.

[Brian Wilson]

Stacked fan and other observations

The rotor configuration I had posted earlier seemed to give me some rather promising results based on neon output. However as I look over my notes on all of my different designs and how they actually charge, the bifoler #26 & #28 worked the best. I can actually get a small net positive charge between my source and charge battery when I use it.

I will build a larger one using an AC window fan. It has six posts and the magnets spin inside. Unfortunately, AC doesn't use permanent magnets. I have to make a rotor. Not to dificult but requires extra work. Will report on it when I get it done.

Something that I believe the senior members already know: the brightness of the neon doesn't reflect on how well the unit will charge. My highest chargeing fans weren't the ones with the brighests neons.

The stacked design gave me super bright neons. So much so it burned out several of them at once along with the diode. It didn't charge very well.

[mbrownn]

Does it work on a mountain or somewhere far from civilization?


Thanks

Yes it will work anywhere, even in space.

[mbrownn]

Dear Mbrownn,
I'm a little bit confused what takes to desulphate the car battery, voltage, current or both? If I use a standard PC Fan then it would take to desulphate the car battery approximately over a month or 1 lb a day (just an estimated number) Using PC Fan and rated 100v 2n3055 transistor then output spikes shouldn't be higher then 100v AC. For example if I use 10 pc fans in parallel then the AC voltage output remains the same but current multiplies by 10. On youtube I found a video where printer motor was used about a fist size and it can output 500+ volts AC as long as transistor is used with higher rated voltage. What should be my goal to go with a high voltage 500v output or high current design? Since you have 1000 times more experience, could you suggest a better ssg design to desulphate car battery? Also I have tv flyback transformer and a few neon lights transformer which can output thousands of volts, can they be used to desulphate the battery? What's the safest highest voltage I can use for 12v battery? I really doubt that I can use thousands of voltage spikes for battery.

There are many ways to desulphate a battery, John Bedini showed us one way using the SSG. What is interesting about it is that it does not require current. Normally voltage without current is static but as the battery does charge on the SSG it cannot be static or current that is doing it. This type of energy is known as radiant energy.

Yes higher voltage does increase the effect but beware of an explosion risk if this voltage causes arcing but your charging voltage should not be much above battery voltage when the battery is connected. Normally the spike created is around 10 times that of the input voltage.

The faster we switch off the supply to a coil, the the more effective this "radiant voltage spike" is. the efficiency is given by reducing the amount of time on that the coil has but there is a limit.

Mechanical switching is very good at switching off and so produces a very good spike but it is difficult to get the very short on time.

Computer fans are very small for desulphating and charging car batteries, the self oscillating relay is faster but not as efficient. Google the "Imhotep IRO. Any coil can be used to create a spike, it does not need to be a transformer and can be slaved to a relay. Even an electric washing machine motor can be used but obviously it will not run as it is not designed to run on pulsed DC

I have not used above 500v to charge or desulphate batteries as I consider it too risky but I am sure others have.

I would aim to get a current draw of 1/20th of the amp hour rating of the battery I am charging but using the minimum current required to power the coil. This means a bigger coil but I cannot tell you if it would be safe to use a neon sign transformer although I have used car ignition coils with great success. Neon sign and microwave oven transformers use lethal amounts of power in normal use so I consider them too dangerous as battery chargers but if you do choose to try it, use extreme care.

[Dragonall]

Work far from urban areas?

Does it work on a mountain or somewhere far from civilization?


Thanks

[Almaz]

Dear Mbrownn,
I'm a little bit confused what takes to desulphate the car battery, voltage, current or both? If I use a standard PC Fan then it would take to desulphate the car battery approximately over a month or 1 lb a day (just an estimated number) Using PC Fan and rated 100v 2n3055 transistor then output spikes shouldn't be higher then 100v AC. For example if I use 10 pc fans in parallel then the AC voltage output remains the same but current multiplies by 10. On youtube I found a video where printer motor was used about a fist size and it can output 500+ volts AC as long as transistor is used with higher rated voltage. What should be my goal to go with a high voltage 500v output or high current design? Since you have 1000 times more experience, could you suggest a better ssg design to desulphate car battery? Also I have tv flyback transformer and a few neon lights transformer which can output thousands of volts, can they be used to desulphate the battery? What's the safest highest voltage I can use for 12v battery? I really doubt that I can use thousands of voltage spikes for battery.

[mbrownn]

Thank you for a quick response. Since I just started reading about Bedini charger and it'll probably would take me a few days to read all these pages on the forum, can you answer a few quick questions?

1) If I use a bigger motor would it speed up the process?

2) Is higher voltage output from the motor better or worse for charging battery? Does output AC current makes difference to charge batteries?

3) Is it better to use brushless motor with more poles 6, 8 instead of pc fan 4 poles?

4) Is it ok to use stock 6, 8 poles brushless motor without rewinding for trigger poles? If I understand trigger poles must have higher number of winds.

5) Is it safe to use this method of charging on regular basis or is it only good to restore dead batteries?

6) I found out the transistor shown in the circuit 2N3055 is not very efficient. Should I look for another transistor with higher frequency? What's the most important in the transistor besides to be 4-5 times RMS, voltage, Amp's and Watts.

7) Is higher or lower RPM makes any difference for charging the battery?

8) Trigger poles must be high gauge and high number of winds but what is suggested for other poles? Low gauge as much of winds as possible?

Thank you in advance

1)Bigger is better but look for low resistance coils.

2)The high voltage actually improves the battery by removing sulphation

3&4)I don't think the number of poles are important and the number of winds is the same for both power and trigger

5) I have used it for many years on one battery yet another crystallized so i cannot say for sure about this

6) Low impedance and rapid shut off

7)RPMs make no difference but you want the highest radiant output and this tends to occur at lower revs

8)This must be the type posted recently, best for him to comment on this as I have never built one this way.

[Almaz]

It is possible as a fan will restore capacity but its output is very small when compared to a car battery so it will take a long time even if it can do it. You could use 10 or more fans in parallel and that would work better.

Thank you for a quick response. Since I just started reading about Bedini charger and it'll probably would take me a few days to read all these pages on the forum, can you answer a few quick questions?

1) If I use a bigger motor would it speed up the process?

2) Is higher voltage output from the motor better or worse for charging battery? Does output AC current makes difference to charge batteries?

3) Is it better to use brushless motor with more poles 6, 8 instead of pc fan 4 poles?

4) Is it ok to use stock 6, 8 poles brushless motor without rewinding for trigger poles? If I understand trigger poles must have higher number of winds.

5) Is it safe to use this method of charging on regular basis or is it only good to restore dead batteries?

6) I found out the transistor shown in the circuit 2N3055 is not very efficient. Should I look for another transistor with higher frequency? What's the most important in the transistor besides to be 4-5 times RMS, voltage, Amp's and Watts.

7) Is higher or lower RPM makes any difference for charging the battery?

8) Trigger poles must be high gauge and high number of winds but what is suggested for other poles? Low gauge as much of winds as possible?

9) If I get printer motor which is about a fist size with 8 or 10 poles and modify the circuit for higher voltage output. I know the motor can easily output 500+ volts and very low current. Is it enough to restore/charge car battery?

Thank you in advance

[mbrownn]

Hi guys! I'm unable to start my car if it is parked for 2-3 days but if I drive daily then Sealed 12v Battery works fine. Do you think if I use Bedini system using PC FAN 12v 0.25A would restore battery?

It is possible as a fan will restore capacity but its output is very small when compared to a car battery so it will take a long time even if it can do it. You could use 10 or more fans in parallel and that would work better.

[Almaz]

Hi guys! I'm unable to start my car if it is parked for 2-3 days but if I drive daily then Sealed 12v Battery works fine. Do you think if I use Bedini system using PC FAN 12v 0.25A would restore battery?

[Joit]

Mangelo, a Batterie is neccessary for the Fan, its not selfrunning.

Brian i did see you stack of Coils, did wait if you have to report more.
I got a ceiling Fan motor too, still AC, but it has inside a lot of this stacked Coils too, i think 3 rows above eachother and a with couple Coils in the turn of it. So it may must help something when they build it at the industry. I only did not play around with it.

[mbrownn]

Sorry guys I have been busy and didn't see the posts. By the way I am not Imhotep or a moderator but I answer to the best of my knowledge.

Brian, the purple flashing does damage the neon's and with so much power it will blow the transistor when the neon fails. You are using a modified circuit so we do not know if it is better or worse until you do some comparisons with charging and discharging.

mangelo, you can use any DC input that will get the circuit to oscillate but it is pointless to not have a charging battery.

[Brian Wilson]

battery

@mangelo. Not much has been going on in this forum lately. I wrote on 3/13 and there has been no response. This is unusual. I'm not the moderator but I'll answer your question as best as I can.

You do not need a battery to run your fan, but you do need some kind of power source. You can use a transformer pluged into house current as long as the output is 12 volts. It should be less than an amp as well.

You don't need a battery hooked up to charge unless you do not have the neon light in the curcuit. The neon keeps the transformer from burning out if you are not charging a battery. Best to have the neon while you are learning but it is not necessary as long as you are connected to a charge battery.