The bistander thread

[bistander]

...
It is my suspicion that the large steel plate on top of the BLACK machine to which the motor is mounted that is less than 3/4" above the rotor is causing the problem. We will find out as testing progresses. If that turns out to be the problem, we can go to a direct drive (vs belt drive) motor like the WHITE machine has, and I still have the old 24 magnet rotor I can put back in. But we want to get it outputting first. ...

Turion,
I doubt that plate on top is the problem, but easy way to eliminate your suspicion is to simply cut out the middle of the plate. Its structure and support are provided by the steel around the perimeter and the rotor (and magnets) only come close to the center portion of the plate. Just cut out the middle section.
bi

[Turion]

That's a good idea. I really wanted a direct drive setup anyway, as the belt drive is another place to really get yourself hurt. At least with direct drive I can EASILY cover the spinning shaft with a small shield. So we will see how it pans out.

[bistander]

... I'm building it anyway. ... Still, it works as claimed. With some additions and adjustments it can exceed COP>1.
...

Re: Tesla Switch

Hey Turion,
You're welcome to use this thread to document your build and tests of this Tesla Switch. I'm interested.
bi

[Turion]

I wanted to update you on the generator situation. It is taking these guys longer than I thought. The old white machine is back together. With the output of two coils they are able to run the PacSci 120V DC motor at over 2900 rpm, but they are having a devil of a time giving me info on outputs to load.

Using 100, 200 and 300 watt bulbs as loads the amperage and voltage changes as they change the load, which is blowing their minds. I'm sure it is a function of the fact that the coil pair only puts out so many watts, that has to be divided between voltage and amperage, so to power a load that draws more amps, the voltage must go down. I thought I would run it by you and see what you thought. I didn't know that was possible. I figured voltage depended on length of wire and would be a constant, and the 300 watt bulb would just be dimmer because it didn't have enough amps, but that does not seem to be the case. It ISN'T as bright as the 100 watt bulb, but the voltage and amperage reading to the load are much different. I'm not even sure they are capable of getting me a correct amperage reading so I may have to go to Sacramento one day next week.

There is no way that two coils will power that PacSci motor under load, because that requires 7-12 amps, and two coils will not put out that many amps. But if the load can indeed demand amps at a reduced voltage, I thought about running the 36 volt MY1020 under load to see what would happen. Just don't want to burn it up. If watts to the load is all that is required, two coils supply enough watts, and if the load can determine how much of each, it should run.

I'm not going to suggest that to them until I can actually get there and put a meter on it and see what is actually happening. Today they are putting the black machine back together so they can compare output of the coils on the two machines.

[bistander]

Turion,
The output of the generator is load dependent. The bulbs are loads of various resistance, impedance actually. Assuming the bulbs are all rated at the same voltage, the higher power rated bulbs will have lower resistance, hence draw higher current from that rated voltage supply (ie. 230V). It's a similar case when the bulbs are used as loads across the generator coil. But your generator coil voltage is not the same as the mains for which the bulbs are rated. First, it is not the same value of voltage. And it is not constant as the load changes.

Once the design is set and speed is constant, the generator coil voltage is determined by the open circuit coil voltage and load current according to Ohm's Law, using the resistance (impedance) of the coil. The coil's power output (used by the load) is found using the rms voltage of the coil times the rms coil (load) current times the power factor (pf).

With your coils, the resistance is comparatively high so the output voltage will sag (reduce) considerably as the load current increases. The maximum power occurs when load resistance equals coil resistance.

Since we don't know the coil resistance or the bulb resistance, we can't be sure what's happening because they don't measure voltage, open circuit and at load, and current, or phase angle (pf). It could well be that going from 100, to 200 to 300 w rated bulbs may actually be decreasing power generated.

Hope that helps.
bi

[Turion]

Re Generator:

I sent them a text, and they will take all those measurements in the morning.

They put the whole Black machine back together today, and when they fired it up, the rotor moved sideways and rubbed the frame. They forgot the spacers on each side of the rotor, between it and the bearing, so have torn it back down and will reassemble it tomorrow. Guess they aren't as FAMILIAR with how it goes together as I am.

So the black machine is back together and working, but only puts out about 60% of the power the white machine puts out. The only two possibilities I can think of are something to do with the opposition magnets or that metal plate on top. Before we have a new motor mount fabricated they are taking the Black machine apart, removing all the opposition magnets and will test its output again. They didn't provide me with the data I asked for, so I asked for it again. They probably forgot. We talk about so much stuff when they call it probably got lost in the shuffle.

[Turion]

Re: Tesla Switch

Got my rotor all set up for the rotary Tesla switch. Did a little video of the auto points as spark gap. It requires two of those. https://youtu.be/khm2jWTZmNQ
I have been trying to recondition four of my batteries that have just been sitting around to use as the batteries, but if I haven't got them up to snuff by tomorrow I will pick up two more batteries at Lowes, that match two OTHER batteries I have (to give me 4 that match), or maybe just one six volt (if they have one) since I have three of those that are good, and it really doesn't matter what batteries as long as they are decent. I really didn't want to spend $60 on two more batteries just for this, but I want to get it up and running and off my list of things to do. I was going to use a smaller rotor, which is actually more efficient, since it doesn't take as much energy to turn it, but I want to show how you can take this setup, which is barely COP 1, and turn it up a couple notches. It will be easier to SEE those changes with a larger rotor, although they would be more efficient with the smaller one.

[Turion]

For some reason it posted twice

[bistander]

Re: TESLA SWITCH

Hi Turion,
for posts here concerning the Tesla Switch, please use a subject as I did. I encourage you to post here rather than the MG thread. And I don't want to confuse comments and data with your generator. Hopefully we can see some data from your buddies soon.
Regards,
bi
edit:

I am unfamiliar with the Tesla Switch, so I'm going to attach the basic circuit as this place relates. Let me know if this is what you're doing.

https://studfile.net/preview/8198158/

Screenshot_20220920-032234-576.png

[Turion]

Re Tesla Switch:

I am building the Simple Switch version, a simple MECHANICAL version, which isn't a true "Tesla Switch", but is where I started and is a simple proof of concept. It will eventually run down, but not for a long time. And once it is built, I can show some modifications that I believe will help it run even longer. I do not promise it will NEVER run down, because everything dies eventually. Not sure how this BIGGER rotor will work with the small coils I am using. But I wanted the bigger rotor because it makes the modifications easier to talk about and explain. The first time I built this, I used the smaller, lighter rotor, with these coils, and GOOD batteries. Not sure if my batteries will hold up either, but can't afford 4 new ones, and the one I have on order to give me a set of four won't be here for a few days (Amazon says the 22nd) so if it doesn't hold up, I will have to wind a larger coil and wait for new batteries to figure out if it is the batteries or the coil. Replacing batteries is far easier than winding a new coil, and I will try that first since I am lazy. Besides, I wanted to use the smaller batteries to make the setup more portable to take with me to AZ when I go to visit family in the next couple months. But I have to start somewhere, and it's easier to start with things I already have on hand. I will know within a couple days of firing it up if the batteries are holding.

I am posting the schematic here that I posted on the other thread, as well as a video clip of how I use simple auto points to replace the reed switches, since they tend to wear out over time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm2jWTZmNQ

SImple Tesla Switch motor.png

Basically, the modifications we are going to make to this setup is the addition of a generator coil to produce output power, and the use of magnets to increase the generator power, power of the motor coils, and reduce the amp draw of the system. Just like I show in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90t071rVfmE

The final modification will be matching the right capacitor to the generator coil to establish a "Lenz neutral" situation at the RPM we can get the machine to run at. One of the BIG advantages to this Tesla Switch type setup is that the batteries hold voltage for a really long time with little to no variation, which is important, because the cap/coil relationship is only effective within a small window, and generally running off a battery runs the battery down too fast to take advantage of it.

I am also building a full blown Tesla Switch just for fun that I will post some videos of when I am done. It has 12 batteries in it, so most won't replicate it without substantial reason to go to all the expense. Probably $600 or more. And who wants to spend $600 to run a 30 watt load? So people should start with the simple one, add modifications, and work their way up. There is an intermediate step I can show also. SEVERAL versions of that I built. A multiple transistor four battery version that is switched by an Arduino.

For the one I am working on now:
12 of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3 of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C7ZM8SS...roduct_details
2 of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3 10 watt bulbs
3 bulb receptacles.
Wire

[Turion]

Re GENERATOR

Here is the data they provided me this morning.
Both coils wrapped with three strands of 1,000 feet of # 23
Old coils 5.4 ohms resistance
New Coils 7.1 ohms resistance??? This doesn't sound right to me, but that's what they said Since old coils and new coils were both wrapped with the same size of wire and length of wire, shouldn't the resistance be the same, even though the core material is different?

The same two coils or "coil pair" were tested on both machines. These are the NEW coils
Open voltage on old machine 302V
138V under load across a 100 W light bulb

New coil open voltage on new machine 170V
74V under load across 100 W light bulb

[BroMikey]

.....coils wrapped with three strands of 1,000 feet of # 23

New Coils 7.1 ohms resistance??? This doesn't sound right to me, but that's what they said

The same two coils or "coil pair" were tested on both machines. These are the NEW coils
Open voltage on old machine 302V
138V under load across a 100 W light bulb

New machine (1" mags) old machine(2" mags) new coils(new cores) old coils (iron wire cores). I think the new machine had a different rotor while the old machine has 2" hockey puck magnets" is this right? You have so many.

Which ever, this is a phenomenal output of over 100watts per coil pair. Not bad, no heat right? Probably less drag with less iron in the cores. 7 ohm? while they were hot after a run? I think.

250w input 700watt output? COP 2.8

[Turion]

The current rotor on the new machine has places for 20 of the 1" magnets. But half of the holes are filled with plastic plugs. So it only has 10 N/S magnets, while the old machine has 12 of the 1" magnets configured N/S.

I didn't say 100 watts per coil pair output, and I didn't say 250 watt input 700 watt output.
I said it was connected to a 100 watt bulb. It was also lighting up a 200 watt bulb and a 300 watt bulb. They haven't reported AT ALL on the amp output. The only really good news for me is that the output from two coils ran the 120 V Pacific Scientific motor at over 2900 rpm unloaded.

[BroMikey]

The current rotor on the new machine has places for 20 of the 1" magnets. But half of the holes are filled with plastic plugs. So it only has 10 N/S magnets, while the old machine has 12 of the 1" magnets configured N/S.

I didn't say 100 watts per coil pair output, and I didn't say 250 watt input 700 watt output.

The only really good news for me is that the output from two coils ran the 120 V Pacific Scientific motor at over 2900 rpm unloaded.

Wow that is really puzzling. Does each old and new machine have the opposition magnets on the outside? Yes? Then I am stumped. Those other figures are just me speculating. You would think that the rotor with less magnets would make them further apart from one another would produce less than 12 magnets. But the 20 and 24 magnet rotor crash being to close.

[Turion]

I think the issue is PROBABLY that the opposition magnets on the new machine are 3/4 x 3/4, and the opposition on the old machine are the same diameter, but only 1/4" thick. 3/4" thick is probably just TOO much magnetic field close to the coils. That's why they are taking ALL the opposition magnets out of the NEW machine. Then we will try it with the 10 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will also try it with the 20 magnet rotor. If that is successful, we will try it with the 24 magnet rotor we started with. If they ALL work, we just adjust the size of the opposition magnets. Sooner or later we will figure it out The old machine kicks ass with the new rotor mount, and new bearings, but the adjustment of the opposition magnets still sucks. They could be replaced, and we will certainly do that, because it will give us two working machines.