Your Basic Coil

[Dog-One]

Quote from JLN labs: When the LOAD IS CONNECTED the RPM speed is DOUBLED and the INPUT POWER DROPS dramatically.

In that statement is your answer. Seems to me the device has achieved a point in which it is powering itself. Why else would input power drop...?

Recall Jim Murray talking about how motors are also generators; generators are also motors.

Hmmm, so if internally the generator portion of the device begins to produce more power, then the motor gets more power to motor with. If this situation isn't governed, the device RPM will continue to increase until it grenades itself. That's a problem I wouldn't mind having. But what we see in most devices is for some reason they govern themselves--shaft speed stabilizes as well as input power. Back to the generator portion becoming a motor and the motor portion becoming a generator. That's not what we are after. We need each section of the device to remain only doing its needed task and not switching roles like when a load is applied or shaft speed changes. This is were geometry becomes key.

[Turion]

Poop theory

The more of the right kinds of foods you eat, the less you poop.

Americans eat so much of the bad kinds of food, we have a poop problem. If we keep increasing the population and eating the wrong kinds of foods, poop will take over the world. Mark my words. Eventually we will have poop free zones. Probably a poop tax. They tax everything else! Oh Poop! I shouldn't have said that! I probably just gave them the idea!

Dave

[Turion]

You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

And if the bull is in the field and the cow is in the barn all you end up with is twice the cow poop and two frustrated animals.

To just say we need bigger amp draw to get a positive result without explaining to people HOW to use that amp draw to get bigger results, you're gonna end up with the exact same pile of poop. Oh AND frustrated animals.

Dave

[barbosi]

Is there a reason I don't understand why I should WANT greater amp draw?

If you were a farmer you would understand the capitalist version from "you have two cows" joke series:

You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

And if you want increased milk production you would feed both animals more. All you would have to do is to work more to ensure you have enough for the cold season too.



Or if you prefer a different approach - more scientific one, you could talk to specialists and here is what you would need:

Milk production at a dairy farm was low, so the farmer wrote to the local university, asking for help from academia. A multidisciplinary team of professors was assembled, headed by a theoretical physicist, and two weeks of intensive on-site investigation took place. The scholars then returned to the university, notebooks crammed with data, where the task of writing the report was left to the team leader. Shortly thereafter the physicist returned to the farm, saying to the farmer, "I have the solution, but it only works in the case of spherical cows in a vacuum".

[Turion]

???

I'm trying to understand why you think drawing less amps is a bad thing? I have seen speed up under load WITH lower amp draw so I know it is possible. Is there a reason I don't understand why I should WANT greater amp draw? I have an open mind to almost anything, and I am trying to understand, but you make statements like that with no explanation, and it is hard for me to understand. You may not particularly CARE whether I understand or not, but I thought we were all in this together.

I saw where you stated "In such a system, consumption must increase. The increase results in a stronger motor, higher generator action, higher recovery, higher self and when applicable, mutual induction." so I understand you believe there are positives, but I have not seen that with the systems I have built EXCEPT with the 3BGS, where a load across the battery was balanced with the load on the motor. It increased the motor speed and therefore the generating power.

To edit this, let me say I don't care if the motor speeds up, slows down, increases amp draw or the amp draw goes down. What I want is the MOST efficient production of usable power possible. If the amps go UP but the power production ALSO goes up, then that can be a good thing. It can also be a BAD thing if the power production did not go up enough in relation to the increase in power consumption.
Dave

[Turion]

mbrown

As long as we are talking about how a coil speeds up under load, I don't see how posting your experience is a tangent. I think the idea here is to see what folks are doing, and what common ground we can find. It would be great if we could put together a chart that showed that if you are using #18 wire you need to have X number of strands X number of feet long, and possibly x distance from the rotor and your coil will speed up under load, and possibly a multiple of that number (strands and or length) if you want multiples in voltage or amps. Imagine how valuable that would be to people.

And we need to see that WITH that speed up in load there is a decrease in the amp draw used to run the device in the motoring phase.

[mbrownn]

Has it really been that long? I am sure you can appreciate the similarities between what I am demonstrating here and your own work. Are you still working on the Lockridge?

In a properly designed system, consumption increase is part of the feedback and gain mechanism. In such a system, consumption must increase. The increase results in a stronger motor, higher generator action, higher recovery, higher self and when applicable, mutual induction.


Regards

Yes it has. Yes there are similarities and yes i am although I dont think what I have done is relevant in this thread, its done differently: hence my silence.

i agree with your analysis.

@Turion I didnt use the method Erfinder used to cause acceleration under load, and I dont want to take this thread off at a tangent so I wont discuss it here. I do want to learn about what other methods have been used so I'm all ears.

If you are interested in my method I will explain it in another thread, although I have posted about it many times.

[Turion]

Information

erfinder,

The entire purpose of this thread was to come to an understanding of exactly what it takes to make a device speed up under load so that we can ALL build such devices. I would agree that that isn't all we need know, but for many folks, it is a beginning and the first step in the right direction. The sooner we understand how to make EVERY coil speed up under load, the better off we ALL are

I have devices that will speed up under load with a single coil, and it has nothing to do with the proximity of the coil to the rotor as you showed in your example. My coils are right NEXT to the rotor. The topology is completely different from your example. I know for a fact there is more than ONE way to skin this cat. Or at least a cat that looks an awful lot LIKE this one.

I have no trouble making a generating device with coils that speed up under load. There are at least four different coils I have wound that will speed up under load. Three of them have ONE thing in common, so I thought I had it figured out, they were all sub ohm, but the 4th was not. I ran different sized rotors with different numbers of magnets and they still sped up. Back to the drawing board. All these coils were conventional coils placed as closely as possible to a N/S rotor and/or a N/N rotor. Two of the sub ohm coils were iron core and one was air core. It isn't the HOW of making a coil speed up under load. I know HOW to wind one that will do that. (Just wind coils that are the same as any of the four I already have.) It's the WHY it speeds up under load I am interested in. If it isn't topology, it is something else. I noticed your coil was also sub ohm. Is it the topology, or is it that the coil was sub ohm? That's information you have and I do not.

Dave

[mbrownn]

I am looking for a serious audiance. I desire to exchange with serious researchers. Instead I am attacked when I just post text.....when I post a video..... crickets..... Don't throw demands in my direction. I don't owe anyone anything, and will present information when I feel like it and not a second sooner. There are one or two among you who can kiss my ass, seriously! Those folk please refrain from mentioning my name in your posts, don't give me props, don't ask for my assistance, we aren't friends!

I don't like being told that my machines don't do what I say they do, the few who have made false statements are ignorant f***s, there is no cure! My machines were designed for a very specific purpose, and perform exactly as I say they should. Demonstrations of what they can do aside from generating squared waves and oscillations will follow in the future....maybe....

In the link you will find a vague video demonstration of the effect you all want, acceleration under load. This time around, I show you that it can be done using one low resistance, low inductance coil operating at low frequency. You didn't listen to me the last time, when I posted a video of a two coil axial setup demonstrating the exact same thing, I doubt you will pay attention this time around either.

IF this is all you are looking for....heaven help you, acceleration under load is not the solution, not even close. The effect is a teaching instrument, you are supposed to be learning something, to find out what that is, I recommend you stop copying and pasting and start formulating and asking the proper questions.

https://vimeo.com/151417537

Regards

I remember us discussing this a few years ago and the increased current draw

[shylo]

I think using a rotor with opposite poles oriented is a mistake.
The rotor should be all the same pole.
When a magnet approaches a coil it induces a pole into that coil, when the magnet hits TDC the pole reverses, now the coil is trying to pull the passing magnet back , but if the next approaching magnet is of the same polarity ,it will draw it in.
Thats the sweet spot.
During the whole process a backspike is produced ,collect that and use it also.It doesn't seem to cause any extra load.
Coil shorting can add even more. I haven't got there yet.
Just gotta figure out how to put them altogether.
artv

[blackchisel97]

In the link you will find a vague video demonstration of the effect you all want, acceleration under load. [U][COLOR="Red"]This time around, I show you that it can be done using one low resistance, low inductance coil operating at low frequency.

Hi erfinder,

I believe the same effect would be present with magnet passing in between two coils except, the second one should be opposite polarity.
Also, same effect would manifest with single coil connected right and two rotors with opposing magnetic pairs. Am I correct?

Thanks
V

[barbosi]

Now what?

[shylo]

does an open coil with no core ,not connected to anything cause drag (create lenz)?
My test's say no.
If you put diodes on the leads of the coil and put a cap on the other ends of the diodes, this collects the back spike, which is lenz, drain lenz 'store it in the cap and then use it.
If at 100 rpm an arbitrary # , the coil produces say 2 volts, with a bridge connected and a cap connected to the bridge, at 100 rpm that cap will stay at 2 volts , there will be lenz until the cap reaches 2 volts , but after that lenz disappears.
After the initial bridge and cap are charged , don't drain it, the additional caps via the other diodes can be drained without lenz showing up since the bridge and cap stay fully charged , use the flyback only.
artv

[alman]

...
What I was thinking can easily be viewed by looking at the reflection rule of a coaxial transmission line. If the end is open then you have the wave reflected. If the end is closed, you get the same reflection but the wave is inverted. Technically it is a matter of the reactive impedance being higher or lower than the dc resistance and I don't think it matters whether or not the reactive impedance is capacitive or inductive.

therefore, you need only insure that the output impedance of the coil is severely mismatched with the rest of the circuit and you will get that reflected wave.

So, at the right rpm, the reflected wave could boost the rpm/lower current draw, yes?...

A coil can resonate a multiple frequencies can't it?
It appears to me one of the common threads used by many to stimulate "free energy" whether it is speeding up a rotor under load and decreasing amp draw, or extracting usable energy (capacitive or magnetic or both) is introducing a counter force like voltage or current like in the 3BGS/splitting the positive or bucking coils. In John Bedini's splitting the positive his counter force is just under 1/2 of the force in position 1 with the dead battery being in battery 3 spot. We see this reationship 2:1 in some of the bucking coil arrangments as well (POC etc.). The mismatch shows up in Bedini's bifilar ssg coil (different gauges of wire) as well. To illicit a "cold form" of electricity one needs to force out surges of voltage through abrupt switching into high impedance load or surges of current between negatives in low impedance load. just thoughts as well, not over the top yet either. Running solid state ssg's between the positives right now, been using rotored ones for years and have been missing out. Why rotor unless you are going to generate too! No lenz acceleration under load is needed to make the rotored machines come alive. Al

[blackchisel97]

I used the wrong terms to describe what I'm really thinking. Time constant is not correct.

As far as self-resonant frequency of coils go, I think we may be stretching a bit. A low inductance coil is going to be way up the megahertz scale. I'm not sure you can get meaningful effects from super low subharmonics..

Hi Orion,

I just measured one of my small coils to verify.
It is bifilar 400 T of 0.4mm (0.016in) measuring 35mm x 35mm (1.38in) with 10.34mm (0.4in) ferrite core. It shows first resonance at 148kHz for single strand but wait, when connected in reversed series resonance dropped down to 20kHz and this is only bifilar coil, not tri or multifilar.This may be just one way of increasing coil capacitance thus, lowering frequency.
Rotor spinning at 1800 RPM has frequency of 30Hz but that's for single pulse, once per rotation. Multiplied by 6 magnets will give us 180Hz but again, this is for one coil stator.

Perhaps I over complicated or over simplified as there might be other factors.
I'm trying to build second rotor setup and test something so I won't mislead others with my thoughts.

V