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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by pmgriphone View Post

    Or are you wondering if the output of the machine would be more than what it costs to drive the rotor?

    there is still a slight increase in drive power compared to having no coils close to the rotor.

    So the question remains whether what the coils output is more than that amount of additional load on the rotor.

    Maybe you would want to enlighten us ............


    BroMikey, I am a builder ......

    self-capacitance of a coil is dependent on wiring configuration

    There is no clear model for that.

    Hence I am interested in knowing how different wiring configurations affect self-capacitance.

    Knowing how to design a certain inductance

    That can be explained with simple physics.

    ...
    No I am not wondering anything, I built some of these, it is you who is wondering and worried about output and modelling. I suggest you do some building and find out for your self and then these many many questions you are needing an answer for by demanding others spell it all out, will ring clear. I'm trying not to beat you up to badly.

    Don't talk, build. I will give you one answer and hopefully you will take my word for it and go build. Here is what I offer. Your question was the same question I had that no one could understand nor took the time to answer. I was years later I answered it for myself.

    Here was my question. Input drive draw = X with and without a core in place.

    Answer. Negligible increase .00

    When I measured the difference of drive input the core barely increased the draw yet had a profound effect when operating as you have been told. There is no need to worry or wonder, now because I just told you.

    This data is for a single core. with 12 or 24 cores it will be more. These are cores not connected yet in the open state.

    I suggest putting one core at a time and watch how generating power can be done without slowing down the rotor. When I say slowing down the rotor I mean slowing it down enough to increase the amp draw. This is the incorrect state. What we are looking for is a coil a little longer so this does not drive the amps upward.

    We are looking for the NULL. The NULL means NULL, no effect on the system.

    As I said, this was my question in the beginning years #1 do cores in the open circuit state drag down the rotor = to the recovery when turned on. Answer NO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Next question how much? And on we go measuring and speculating but not building, just more modelling.

    So start up your rotor and stick a core and coil up to it, and I don't mean a 1/2" gap either or it may as well be a foot. And I don't mean 3/16" neither. Make it tight or she aint gonna feel right.

    Building a rotor this close will put you out of this race for sometime. Have fun.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 04-06-2021, 11:39 AM.

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  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Pmgr, you know as well as me there's only one right way which is a rotary torque sensor and water cooled resistor.
    You could conceivably use a motor data sheet but they tend to be a bit optimistic
    To make a real bifilar winding two strand magnet wire is available.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmgriphone
    replied
    BroMikey, I am a builder as well as modelling guy. So it's my nature to try to understand how things work and make sense out of what is measured. Predicting coil inductance and resistance based on wiring configuration is straight forward. However, self-capacitance of a coil is dependent on wiring configuration and wire used and how it is wound. There is no clear model for that. Hence I am interested in knowing how different wiring configurations affect self-capacitance. Knowing how to design a certain inductance and self-capacitance, so as to get a certain resonant frequency is a must know if you ever want to model the complete system and figure out what is the best configuration for optimum power delivery from the coils.

    You are saying I am missing the reason why this works. What reason am I missing? Why the coils can accelerate the rotor or have a "null" effect on it? That can be explained with simple physics. I have no objections there and know that is possible based on modelling. The coils can either decelerate, accelerate or have no impact on the rotor. Period. It can be designed like that.

    Or are you wondering if the output of the machine would be more than what it costs to drive the rotor? For that it depends on how the (open) coils load the rotor. Turion has already said that the impact of coils on the rotor can be decreased by picking the "null" point. I fully agree with that. But there is still a slight increase in drive power compared to having no coils close to the rotor.

    As such, the open coils do still load the rotor more than if no coils were present. So the question remains whether what the coils output is more than that amount of additional load on the rotor.

    You probably have your own understanding I would guess Maybe you would want to enlighten us to what you are thinking?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by pmgriphone View Post

    BroMikey, this meter won't refuse to measure capacitance on a coil (which is basically a short circuit and not an open like capacitor)?
    I am being rhetorical incase you haven't caught on. So it never ends. See what I mean? This meter that meter spend $10,000 still not good enough? What exactly do you want? Talk to me PMG what is the goal of endless measurements?

    A basic LCR meter is $50 bucks. What are you looking for? Free energy in the measurements? Just asking.

    You are missing the reason why this works, but you will get it soon enough, keep trying to see.
    Last edited by BroMikey; 04-06-2021, 06:30 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    bro,
    Conference is July 7th. We have all of Three FULL months.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmgriphone
    replied
    BroMikey, this meter won't refuse to measure capacitance on a coil (which is basically a short circuit and not an open like capacitor)?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by pmgriphone View Post
    Thanks for clarifying all that Alex and Dave. Let me think about this a little more to come up with a method for determining L and C based on winding configuration.
    PmgR
    This is a good way.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/ET4510-Desk...Cclp%3A2334524

    Few weeks to go to conference

    Last edited by BroMikey; 04-06-2021, 04:26 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    I can’t find any capacitors. I know the small ones like you want me to use are all in a case, but cannot find that case. Have ordered some, but that will take a couple days.

    Tested ohms again.
    https://youtu.be/m4RZkNiMyBc

    All 12 coils on my big machine at the machinist measure 5.4 ohms using standard meter like I used in this video, so I’m pretty sure that is accurate.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmgriphone
    replied
    Dave, I would start off with a coil that has no core as that will take the permeability of the core out of the equation.

    Let's start with a coil where you have 12 single strands, none of them connected together.

    Then measure R and L for a single strand.

    And measure C. If your meter reads a "1" on all scales, put an external capacitor in series with the coil. This will have to be trial and error, but start off with something like 100nF. Measure it with your meter first and write down the number (as we need an accurate measured value of the external cap). Then connect it to the coil in series and re-measure the capacitance. If it goes down to about half the measured value (like around 50nF), you know your external cap is in the right ball park. If it doesn't change much, use a different value, probably best to go up in value, like 220nF or 470nF, etc. As long as you see a reasonable change in value, we will be able to calculate the capacitance of the coil.

    Then repeat this measurement, with 2 strands in series (leave the other 10 strands unconnected). This should give a measurement of 4*L for inductance and 2*R for resistance. For capacitance we will have to see what it does, but I would expect it to go down. You might need to change the external cap as well to half its value.

    Then repeat this measurement, with 2 strands in parallel (leave the other 10 strands unconnected). This should give a measurement of 1*L for inductance and 0.5*R for resistance. For capacitance we will have to see what it does, but I would expect it to go up. You might need to change the external cap as well to double its value.

    So for each case record: R, L, C of external cap, C of external cap in series with coil

    Maybe do this for the above cases first, then I will do some calculations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    pmgriphone,

    I am headed to the basement for the day and will start doing that testing.

    I am a (diet) coke addict. Several every day. So I'm going to slowly phase that out over the next month as I go through the supply I already purchased. Thanks for the advice. I have tried pretty much everything, including the monthly injections of Amovig, which work, but I hated the dang needles so I discontinued it. When I have a bad one, I will throw up all day long, so I always have a small clean bucket next to my bed. Fun times.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    I had a go at the inductance. The series coil I estimated at 1000 turns, coil diam. 30mm, coil length 75mm.Air core.
    I made that to about 10mH. 3 in parallel 3.3333 mH. I've no idea what the permeability of a core material might be.
    ​​​​​​​Nice to hear someone else's idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • pmgriphone
    replied
    Thanks for clarifying all that Alex and Dave. Let me think about this a little more to come up with a method for determining L and C based on winding configuration.

    Dave, please do verify if your LRC meter shows a "1" even on the highest uF capacitance setting. If so, I believe that this is caused by the fact that the meter sees a short through the wire because of low resistance (since it is a coil, not a cap).

    The way to circumvent this is to put a capacitor in series with the coil like Alex did. Question is if you have some capacitors laying around that you could put in series with the coil. If the capacitance we want to measure is in the 0.1uF to 10uF, you would need series capacitors of about the same size to put in series. These should be caps without polarity (so non-electrolytic).

    Lastly Dave, with respect to your migraines: I have been tormented with migraines since I was a teenager. Indeed, when those come up, I would lock myself in a dark room and sleep all day long. What I have come to realize over the years is that caffeine and lack of sleep is the biggest trigger for migraines. I used to drink lots of caffeine (either in coffee, tea, coke) when I was younger. When I got older and started drinking less caffeine, I noticed that I would end up with a migraine if I hadn't drunk coffee for a few days. Typically if I hadn't drunk coffee for a couple of days, the migraine would show up on the second or third day after my last cup of coffee.

    Hence I have cut out all caffeine intake now. I also make sure I sleep enough and relax enough (I do daily meditation; check out https://en.falundafa.org/ which is completely free of charge and has done much good for me). My migraines have pretty much completely disappeared. Sometimes I still feel like a coffee and I will drink a single cup, but spot on, after 2-3 days I will then have a migraine again.

    Hope this helps.
    PmgR

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  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by pmgriphone View Post
    BroMikey,

    I am curious to know what the capacitance, inductance and resistance
    no I only wind coils and try them. I have a litz winder and a 60 coil winder. Just keep on winding till it works right. 99% perspiration.

    Leave a comment:


  • alexelectric
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    With 22 magnets on my new rotor, I may be able to go with 6 strands of 2 in series and still get the effect. That would be nice. I would love to see a lower voltage and more amps.
    It will, Mr. Dave, it will have less voltage and more amperage, the good thing is that it has more magnets, and it can compensate for more of the two magnitudes.

    I remember with the 12 wire coil, I left them all in parallel, I turned on the 12 volt car light at 1.5 amp. When I put them all in series, I took a discharge whip, also with a configuration of 4 wires in series, to 3 in parallel, to obtain around 130 volts, I put a transformer from 120 to 12 volts, and turned on the bulb 12-volt, 1.5-amp car power, so you can reconfigure the connections according to what you want to get, or what you need.
    Last edited by alexelectric; 04-05-2021, 05:50 AM.

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  • Turion
    replied
    pmgriphone

    My original coil had 3strands of 1,000 feet (with 18" on each end to make connections) It would "speed up under load" with my 10 1/2" rotor that had six 2" neodymium magnets on it at 2800 RPM. When I brought my generator to this forum I was very aware that people would take whatever junk they had lying around and claim they had replicated it and were not successful. Who knows how many magnets they would have on THEIR rotor. So I recommended they build coils with the same 3,000 feet of wire, but in 12 strands instead of only 3. This would give them more options. They could try 2 strands of 6 in series. Or 3 strands of 4 in series. Or 4 strands of 3 in series. Or even 6 strands of 2 in series. It gave them a better chance of stumbling across a frequency where they would see the effect. The coil I was measuring has 3 strands of four in series. The one I will measure tomorrow has just 12 strands in series. I can wire another one in a different configuration. I could put all 12 strands in series for instance. I have, I believe, 8 coils wound that have 12 strands on them. But ONE of them has a ferrite core.

    With 22 magnets on my new rotor, I may be able to go with 6 strands of 2 in series and still get the effect. That would be nice. I would love to see a lower voltage and more amps. Let me know what you want me to set up I have all day tomorrow. Unless of course I wake up with a migraine. Then I am sleeping ALL DAY. It happens far more often than I would like.

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