William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[Aaron]

input lever moves independently of the oscillating cross bar

Anyone can do a higher quality version of this and while looking at it frame by frame (looked clearer in my editor), it is also completely obvious the upper part of the input lever/shaft moves independently of the oscillating crossbar.

When the crossbar flings back in the opposite direction, the little "swing arm" that the lever is attached to accelerates past where the crossbar is. It is clearly visible in the original video showing that it moves independently of the crossbar.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA9wHJsFzm4[/VIDEO]

In two frames, the crossbar stays in the exact same position but the upper part of the shaft moves showing it is moving not only faster but independently of the crossbar just as I said. If the upper part of the shaft is fixed to the crossbar and simply traces a crescent shape (not linear) every frame would show the movement of both in synchronicity with each other but they are not.

VIDEO EDIT: I said the original camera may not have had enough frames per second to capture the crossbar but that's irrelevant. For the frames per second that the camera was capable of, it did capture the faster moving input lever which proves the point even more that the crossbar is actually moving slower than the lever.

[Aaron]

you need to understand the operating principles

To achieve an elliptical orbit is even more complicated mechanically than the linear or the circular. The shaft attachment would still have to slide up and down the shaft (like in the above video) as the orbit lengthens and shortens twice per orbit. Extra friction!

I don't want to force my opinion on anyone here, but I only see circular activity working here.

So, for me, the only issue left is whether the machine produces real "torque amplification" (energy increases harnessed from gravity) or is simply an elaborate flywheel.

MagnaMoRo

Extra friction is in your mind eliminates the possibility that there would be a mechanism to create an elliptical orbit? lol

It's right there in front of everyone's face in the original video - it is not hiding!

Any mention of flywheel is a further example of not even understanding anything about this machine and is not to be taken seriously.

A flywheel's purpose is to store momentum and it needs to be symmetrically distributed around it's axis to accomplish this in the most efficient way. Take a flywheel from your engine and move the axis 1/2 inch away from center and lets see how long it spins and how long the machine stays in one piece. With Skinner's machine, having the weight distributed asymmetrically all in one side of the axis, it is the antithesis to a flywheel.

The lower weight carries some momentum but it is not for acting as a flywheel, but an object with momentum that is accelerated to the edges on twice on each cycle as it "falls" to each end of the ellipse. It is impulse technology to create a huge power gain by compressing that energy into a short period of time twice per cycle- and since there is gravitational potential converted to work in the system, we also get an energy gain - not just a power gain.

[Aaron]

elliptical orbit

This guys path is linear. And, as you can see, it doesn't self start. I doubt William would go through all the effort for something he would have to push to get it going. So, I think we can rule out the linear path.

That leaves only Circular and Elliptical.

To achieve an elliptical orbit is even more complicated mechanically than the linear or the circular. The shaft attachment would still have to slide up and down the shaft (like in the above video) as the orbit lengthens and shortens twice per orbit. Extra friction!

I don't want to force my opinion on anyone here, but I only see circular activity working here.

So, for me, the only issue left is whether the machine produces real "torque amplification" (energy increases harnessed from gravity) or is simply an elaborate flywheel.

MagnaMoRo

No - the general linear back and forth movement IS what kicks the upper weight around so that the translation coupler spins around and around.

https://youtu.be/JolNozy8UEY?t=23m56s

But the top of the input lever is moved in an elliptical orbit - common sense looking at the original video.

What is the point of you educating us on how to make an animated gif? Did you see anyone say that anything was faked?

Obviously it came from the original video and is real - it is your perception of what is in that gif that is incorrect - not that the image is faked. Very suspicious trying to make a point about something that was never argued.

The mechanism from the input pulley system is above the field of view in the animated gif and is NOT what the little white rotating flash is - and that is actually more apparent at the rear one showing the entire rotation of the small piece that the shaft is connected to.

It is a little rotating bar at the end of the crossbar that is rotating on it's own circular orbit while it goes back and forth creating the elliptical pattern EXACTLY like I showed you in the last video segment I linked to.

Because of Skinner's family's help, I have had more information on this machine than anyone else since Skinner himself and I'm supposed to take this nonsense about the input shaft being rotated in a simple circular orbit in any serious way? It is misinformation - I'm not claiming it's intentional, but it is misinformation.

You are also unaware of the basic principles of the mechanics of these non-equilibrium systems whereas a circular orbit forces symmetry and and you will never get the gains possible because it requires an elliptical orbit to give an impulse 2 times on each cycle. It's a massive power increase that a circular orbit is incapable of delivering. And the upper weight kicking around is the reactive component that does not buck against the input, but instead it's force is assisting forward motion - it is a mechanical equivelant to having a generator free of back emf and the recovery pushes it forward. Except they happen simultaneously in the Skinner machine.

The very claim of circular rotation show an intrinsic contradiction to the very principles applied in this machine to do what is claimed.... the disconnects, non reflection, etc... it is not only visually verifiable false from the original video, it is false in principles and bastardizes the rest of the system in every sense. The changing reference frame is required and the circular orbit sabotages this.

[Aaron]

sequence of events

I don't know if this guy is right. Is this correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3lpFvuzps

My response to his video:

"David, this is the best small scale demo that I have seen. You mention something about elliptical but I did not understand how that came into play with your model. You are showing that the input mechanism simply oscillates back and forth, but I believe you a missing one of the most important pieces, which is the fact that the input lever on Skinner's machine is actually rotated in an elliptical orbit and not a circular one.

Please see this: https://youtu.be/JolNozy8UEY?t=34m49s it is also visible in the original video if you look at it carefully. You will see the top of the input level is actually rotating in a circular orbit WHILE the cross arm rocks it back and forth. With the input lever moving the mechanism in an elliptical orbit, the top of the lower weight is the highest at the center falls to a bit of a lower level at the edges of the ellipse."

He might be seeing the sequence of events in the wrong order - he says the upper weight chases the lower weight but it is the upper weight, which actually leads the lower weight. Input lever kicks the translation coupler, which kicks around the upper weight and the top of the shaft of the lower weight is then kicked around - in that exact sequence.

[MagnaMoRo]

I don't know if this guy is right. Is this correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3lpFvuzps

This guys path is linear. And, as you can see, it doesn't self start. I doubt William would go through all the effort for something he would have to push to get it going. So, I think we can rule out the linear path.

That leaves only Circular and Elliptical.

To achieve an elliptical orbit is even more complicated mechanically than the linear or the circular. The shaft attachment would still have to slide up and down the shaft (like in the above video) as the orbit lengthens and shortens twice per orbit. Extra friction!

I don't want to force my opinion on anyone here, but I only see circular activity working here.

So, for me, the only issue left is whether the machine produces real "torque amplification" (energy increases harnessed from gravity) or is simply an elaborate flywheel.

MagnaMoRo

[BroMikey]

I don't know if this guy is right. Is this correct?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3lpFvuzps

[MagnaMoRo]

All mechanisms to synchronize them all at the input are at the top and OUT OF SIGHT IN THE ANIMATED GIF!

The rotating bar at the end of the main crossbar that spins the input lever in a circle WHILE the axis of that little rotating bar goes back and forth creates an elliptical orbit. All claims contrary is misinformation and is false at face value.

It is not a matter of opinion.

The .gif IS the real deal!

Steps I used to create it:

• Download this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y
  [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y[/VIDEO]

• Load it into VLC Player

• Set play back in full screen in super Slow Motion (about 1 frame per sec or so)

• Find some start and stop frames where the top bars on the machine look about parallel and go to the fist frame.

• Use TinyGrab to select the screen aria desired. (I used reference point in the image on the ceiling and on the floor)

• Use the Pause and Play button to advance each frame and keep grabbing the needed frames till just before the bars are parallel again.

• Load each consecutive Screen Grab into GIMP, each into a new layer

• position each layered image as good as possible and export to a .gif.

Then just post in here and let you put it down! No problem.

Do you have better motion camera images? I'll make a .gif of those too.

I'm a little surprised, though not upset, with your insistence. But also, I must say that there doesn't seem to be enough room at the top of the machine for all of mechanisms necessary to do all that you insist. If those required mechanisms are there (and I won't insist they aren't there) we should see a little more movement. Also, 3 of the top bars are visible enough to make out what is going on.

I am at piece with my accomplishment in the .gif, and with nothing to gain by any false claim or insistence.
MagnaMoRo

[BroMikey]

Okay just for the sake of getting everything on the table in a
manner that does not upset the new guys, are you saying
that the animation is true? Or is it a collection of pictures
that do not reflect the true nature of the actual device?

The animation looks really cool and it would be wonderful
if we had one that really did reflect the actual device. It
took some effort to make the Gif and the work is excellent.

I am not sure what is being said here. Please let me know
if this animation meets the criteria set forth in the invention.

I am not sure one way or another.

I heard what the producer of the GIF said so please
rephrase when you can one way or another.

Pictures can be illusions.

Mikey

[Aaron]

elliptical oribt

All mechanisms to synchronize them all at the input are at the top and OUT OF SIGHT IN THE ANIMATED GIF!

The rotating bar at the end of the main crossbar that spins the input lever in a circle WHILE the axis of that little rotating bar goes back and forth creates an elliptical orbit. All claims contrary is misinformation and is false at face value.

It is not a matter of opinion.

[BroMikey]

That is a highly complex design.

Since it self runs I would guess whats going on in the
upper section that represents a much smaller mass drives the
lower.

The upper has pulley's and cables connected to 3 sinc wobbling
legs while the lower has 10 singing and wobbling weights in
sinc to one another.

It took the mans entire lifetime to perfect.

[shylo]

Hi MagnaMoRo, I agree it more than likely is sprockets and chains, to keep the timing in sync.
Thanks for doing the animation, this was the only area I wasn't sure about.
artv

[MagnaMoRo]

Hi Aron, I see what your saying in your video, but that is not how it works.IMHO
In MagnaMoRo's animation I clearly see the horizontal plate that the upper rod is connected to rotating , the plate I believe is connected to a pulley.( which is connected to the other 3 pulleys by a belt that is driven by a single pulley)
The plate's rotation is circular ,It has to be , if I connect a 10 in. long plate to a 3 in.pulley ,it will create a perfect circle at the 20 in. diameter.
It looks like in the Skinner device the plate is about 6 in. just a guess, but that plate is definately traveling in a circular motion.
Why do you think the driving lever is going back and forth? That would do just as you say , but look closely , it's a plate connected to a pulley.
Not trying to be rude ,just what I see.
artv

Exactly! This is only a 20-frame-repeating-clip, synchronizing with the rotation of the bars, so the white patch on the CHAIN (not belt) driving the GEARS (not pulley) only appears to come around each cycle but it actually takes longer. The big thing on top is a transmission with a centered shaft coming down having maybe 4 gears (could also be accomplished with only 2 gears with longer chains going to the gears above the plates at each diagonally divided half).

It has to be gears and chains (not belts and pulleys), to keep the 4 bars in orbital synchronicity.

[shylo]

Hi Aron, I see what your saying in your video, but that is not how it works.IMHO
In Magnoro animation I clearly see the horizontal plate that the upper rod is connected to rotating , the plate I believe is connected to a pulley.( which is connected to the other 3 pulleys by a belt that is driven by a single pulley)
The plate's rotation is circular ,It has to be , if I connect a 10 in. long plate to a 3 in.pulley ,it will create a perfect circle at the 20 in. diameter.
It looks like in the Skinner device the plate is about 6 in. just a guess, but that plate is definately traveling in a circular motion.
Why do you think the driving lever is going back and forth? That would do just as you say , but look closely , it's a plate connected to a pulley.
Not trying to be rude ,just what I see.
artv

[Aaron]

Skinner machine uses an elliptical orbit, period.

It's right there in front of you. You're looking at it but you don't see it.

I showed you the mechanism in my videos.

You can see the cross bar that goes from the front of the machine - the quadrant closest to the camera and it goes to the back of the machine. It is NOT just going back and forth (left and right).

Well, THAT crossbar is going back and forth (left and right) in a normal oscillation, but what is at the END of that crossbar that the upper input lever is connected to? IT'S RIGHT THERE and that tells the whole story. If you don't see the extra little bar or wheel at the ENDS of the crossbar spinning around independently of the main crossbar, then I'm at a loss for words. I have multiple confirmations by the way so to me, it isn't even debatable but you and others are of course free to believe what you think you see or think you don't see.

Look at the end of the crossbar closest to the camera, you can even see the little white streak going from the right to the left on each rotation of the arm/wheel moving independently of the main crossbar. From a bird's eye view, it is rotating clockwise.

That light streak is NOT some camera imperfection from an old video camera, you are seeing the piece that rotates independently of the main crossbar and that is what the upper shaft is connected to. Examine the FULL movement of it and the upper shaft is rotating in an elliptical orbit.

Your animated gif is clear enough to see it as plain as day.

You can even see it on the rear mechanism furthest from the camera at the back of the machine. Right when the input lever starts to go right, you can see that independently moving arm swinging around and you see a black looking rectangle shape showing that it is more of a bar than a wheel. And when it goes to the left, the opposite side of that little bar swings to the right.

The upper part of the input lever is NOT fixed in place relative to the main oscillating crossbar.

Goto 34:50 of this video:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JolNozy8UEY[/VIDEO]

Ok! I'll let the evidence speak.
Bellow, for the sake of the open source community, I have taken the time to use 20 consecutive frames of the original video and reassembled them into a continuously looped animated .gif image. This allows us to have the best currently available view of the overall machine in action. I have used GIMP to assemble the animation.

Motion picture film was subject to image positioning inconsistencies. So, for stabilization purposes, I have ONLY and as-best-I-could, adjusted the positioning and scaling of the frames to allow for inconsistencies in the original filming.

May all interested study it well and enjoy!

[artoj]

Circles and Lines

Hi, simple machines can make complex paths, just by combination, elliptical paths made from linear and circular guides. Regards Arto.