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  • #16
    To better help visualize the field lines structure of a bar magnet, I found something that Nassim Haramein used in one of his presentation:



    The perceived motion of field lines are represented by connecting the moving dots. If we take out of the picture the continuous vertical lines, with what remains if we copy/paste then around the torus, the spiral shaped lines represent the magnetic field of both poles. The fact that this figure comes close, but not close enough to what I want to describe, makes me not to assign it with a number.

    And again, nothing moves. It is all potential. In fact, this is the basis of today blurb.

    Exactly like in the Figure 12 (except this is for a bar magnet), the illusion is there. If an observer keeps staring at one point, it becomes obvious that is all static. The moment the eyes start wandering it all becomes motion.

    This why I say is static and in the same time, potential. It does nothing until the opportunity for manifesting that potential occurs. And that opportunity will induce the sensation of motion. It is like field lines are frozen while it has the memory of motion. All is needed is some moving observer.

    As a perfect example, as I see it, is the Homopolar Generator. It has been invented by Faraday:

    Figure 16.



    It has come to my attention that it can be even more simple. It has not to have two poles on each side of the disk, but that thing will make it more efficient.

    By visiting “Homopolar Generators” section at the page: Homopolar Motors and Homopolar Generators. From Physclips: Mechanics with animations and film. you can have a description and even some clips with some demonstrations.

    Figure 17.



    What we can observe is that just the relative motion (rotation) of the copper disk in top of the magnet bar will induce the potential which can be collected at the brushes.
    In other words, the static potential exhibited by the magnetic filed is transferred to the brushes (as dynamic potential) once the magnet perceived the motion. Like I said with regard to Figure 12, once the eyes wander across the picture, that static potential is induced as electrical signals in our nervous system which in turn give us the illusion of motion.

    As we do this to ourselves, the same, the disc is generating that electricity, by using the motionless power of static potential.

    Another motion directions are possible too but after brief consideration, the relative speed being too small, the effects are not significant.

    From the page I suggested to visit, there is also an explanation on why this is happening. In just one word: Lenz. So we have no need to repudiate that law, when we see that actually is helping generate electric power. We may need instead to consider changing our ways of thinking and find new ways to harvest that power in that simple way from more evolved electric machines. But that doesn't mean I have the answer. I am sure though that someone out there reading this may be inspired and in a flash it will pop in mind's lab the solution. And when it will be maid public, everybody will reflect upon simplicity and think “Man, I was just 2 seconds behind!”

    I hardly can wait for that day.
    Last edited by barbosi; 01-14-2014, 08:39 PM.

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    • #17
      Note

      Please be aware that in the second post I added a new picture (Figure 3a) representing a side view of a bar magnet.

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      • #18
        From Faraday's homopolar generator is just a small step further to look if there were some others researchers interested in the phenomena. With no surprise we find the Titan of electrical engineering: Nikola Tesla.

        In 1891 (almost 125 years) Nik published in The Electrical Engineer an article discussing methods to improve the homopolar (unipolar) generator. As we cannot know for sure what was his line of thought, we certainly can notice similarities (the spiral shape which is opposite from one side of disk to the other):

        Figure 18.



        From the article (NOTES ON AN UNIPOLAR DYNAMO) we read the reasons of choosing the disc subdivisions:

        The difference of potential between a point on the shaft and a point on the periphery wilt remain unchanged, in sign as well as in amount. The only difference will be that the resistance of the disc will be augmented and that there will be a greater fall of potential from a point on the shaft to a point on the periphery when the same current is traversing the external circuit. But since the current is forced to follow the lines of subdivision, we see that it will tend either to energize or de-energize the field, and this will depend, other things being equal, upon the direction of the Lines of subdivision.
        From nowadays norms we are thought that a potential (voltage) source needs to have a low internal resistance. It appears Nik would be willing to sacrifice that for augmenting the generated potential.

        Many speculations can be made, but to me it looks that he knew about the shape of magnetic field lines generated by magnet bars. Function of the direction of the segments and the polarity of the magnet facing the disc, he could increase or decrease the relative speed between the magnets and disc.

        As a visual effect, the closest I could explain the phenomena is by showing the following optical illusion:


        These days it can be considered that the governing phenomena is “cutting the field lines”. However, to this day I am not aware of a similar simplicity of increasing the relative speed.
        Last edited by barbosi; 01-16-2014, 02:29 PM.

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        • #19
          Note

          In addition Tesla increased the diameter of magnets compared to the disc diameter, in this way he ensured the magnetic field lines present a maximum twist (which is present towards the center of the magnet).
          The disc or cylinder D is supposed to be arranged to rotate between the two poles N and S of a magnet, which completely cover it on both sides, the contours of the disc and poles being represented by the circles d and d' respectively, the upper pole being omitted for the sake of clearness.

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          • #20
            From an unpublished article called Man's Greatest Achievement Tesla said:
            "There manifests itself in the fully developed being, Man, a desire mysterious, inscrutable and irresistible: to imitate nature, to create, to work himself the wonders he perceives.... Long ago he recognized that all perceptible matter comes from a primary substance, or tenuity beyond conception, filling all space, the Akasha or luminiferous ether, that is acted upon by the life giving Prana or creative force, calling into existence, in never ending cycles all things and phenomena. The primary substance, thrown into infinitesimal whirls of prodigious velocity, becomes gross matter; the force subsiding, the motion ceases and matter disappears, reverting to the primary substance."

            It comes to no surprise that another researcher had similar vision and his name is Ed Leedskalnin. Mysterious character, we again may not know the whole picture of his life and his thoughts, but from his writings we can find similarities. The book I refer to is “Magnetic current”.

            Although I think almost have already guessed where I'm going with this, I present anyway one famous drawing from this book:

            Figure 19.



            Because this is related to magnetic lines in a conductor, I will ask for your patience and compare it with already known Figure 12. Leedskalnin's black dot and white dot are the same black and white “horse shoes” bordering the orange ovals. I remind you about the imperfection in Figure 12 where the twist is not present.

            For those familiar with Leedskalnin's books I will point out to the same cosmogony he shared with Tesla. And these two were not unique regarding this concepts.

            I will stop again for reminding the static character of magnetic lines and reminding you that the ilusion of motion comes from the observer's perspective. Some will see the black “horse shoes” leading the swirl, some will see the white ones.

            Precisely like in this animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RSsoTJA6cA

            Some will see it spin clock-wise others anti clock-wise, and yet some will be able to make it change the direction.

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            • #21
              Hello Barbosi,

              The magnetic river video was excellent, Laithwaite was quite the free thinker, I'm surprised his videos are even still available online.

              Magnetism is such an understudied field, still so many things to learn.

              Well, I'll add a few things since we are just sharing ideas. I know magnets tend to stick to Aluminum as either one is moved across the other. But is that always true.

              Here is a vid I made showing that something is not correct. Maybe you've seen this effect before.

              Aluminum and magnets - YouTube

              Other people I showed didn't get the results which I did, so I searched and yes, someone else noticed it too. And it is a better vid.

              magnetic field on aluminum - YouTube

              Also, old HoJo would have liked fig 3a. Now, on whether the magnetic field actually spins. This was posted on another thread, The magnetic fields seems to be spinning at a very high rate of speed, at least in a plasma. JK plasma magnetics experiments. Strange this is not a visible effect on the CRT monitor.

              JK Plasma Magnetics Experiment 1 - YouTube
              Edit: I guess you would have to put the magnet into the screen, to get the full effect. The screen would be like holding magnet to the side of jar, and field looks to bend but not turn.
              Edit2: If I understand, you are saying the wave isn't moving, the plasma is, its an effect of many changing potentials.? There is spinning effect, but the field is expanding and contracting, in and out, the spinning movement is an illusion?

              Machine
              Last edited by machinealive; 01-16-2014, 05:39 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                Hello Barbosi,

                The magnetic river video was excellent, Laithwaite was quite the free thinker, I'm surprised his videos are even still available online.

                Magnetism is such an understudied field, still so many things to learn.

                Well, I'll add a few things since we are just sharing ideas. I know magnets tend to stick to Aluminum as either one is moved across the other. But is that always true.

                Here is a vid I made showing that something is not correct. Maybe you've seen this effect before.

                Aluminum and magnets - YouTube

                Other people I showed didn't get the results which I did, so I searched and yes, someone else noticed it too. And it is a better vid.

                magnetic field on aluminum - YouTube

                Also, old HoJo would have liked fig 3a. Now, on whether the magnetic field actually spins. This was posted on another thread, The magnetic fields seems to be spinning at a very high rate of speed, at least in a plasma. JK plasma magnetics experiments. Strange this is not a visible effect on the CRT monitor.

                JK Plasma Magnetics Experiment 1 - YouTube


                Machine
                Machine,

                You made my day, man!

                I cannot find an explanation on why people right after they find something exciting, drop the whole thing and sometime even forget about it. It is like fatigue and they need to go away in a mental vacation. As the final conclusions are missing I can compare this with “Coitus interruptus” (jokingly of course).
                It this case, people look at this and dismiss with “Aah Lenz law, nothing new” turn their back and miss the punch line. Although I think this is very real, there is still a theoretical chance that the magnetism is not symmetrical at both poles. In other words the neutral plane (Bloch Wall) is not exactly at the geometrical equatorial plane. I tried to approach the subject when some fellow researcher posted something related to some lens effect. I will try to address this later, no big deal.
                Regardless the perfection or imperfection of the magnet, this effect can be used. First think coming in my mind is purely magnetic motors.

                It appears the Aluminum has this unknown property but you cannot be sure about some other materials exhibiting similar properties.

                In the second video, there is also another unknown (at least by me) effect. In the last experiment is shown a curved trajectory which is different from one pole to the other. This comes together with other proofs that field lines at the poles are arranged in curved manner.

                The third video (with plasma) is great too showing the degree of torsion and the “high speed” how you call it.
                As opposed to the CRT experiment, this is in “real time”. Because the CRT's combined deflection, an “electron” sweeps the screen area and comes to the same exact point at some milliseconds, we may compare this with time-lapsed pictures.

                Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                Edit: I guess you would have to put the magnet into the screen, to get the full effect. The screen would be like holding magnet to the side of jar, and field looks to bend but not turn.
                Exactly.

                Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                Edit2: If I understand, you are saying the wave isn't moving, the plasma is, its an effect of many changing potentials.? There is spinning effect, but the field is expanding and contracting, in and out, the spinning movement is an illusion?
                Yes, this is precisely what I am saying. It's an effect of many inter-changing potentials.
                It is my opinion that we should not ignore the presence of electric field which defines the plasma it self. There is no pure magnetic or pure electric fields. They not only the interact with each other but they are born one from the other. If there is a moment of pure magnetic field, I would compare that moment with the moment when the pendulum reaches its top position. Pure potential, speed zero.
                The great wonder to me is that matter and fields/plasma are fooled the same way as the mind.

                Again, great share and I thank you for that.

                Last edited by barbosi; 01-16-2014, 07:46 PM.

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                • #23
                  Hey Barbosi,

                  I tried sliding a magnet down the side of large copper tube and seemed to give same effect, but I need a sheet of copper to really see if same effect happens. Not only does aluminum show a difference in direction as magnet slides down for each pole, confirming opposite curved lines, but the fact that one side sticks better also confirms that the electron fields in aluminum also are curved in a particular direction. Aluminum has one electron in it outer shell, it has spin(curve), it has to match the curve of the magnet pole, I believe.
                  I also noticed that the magnet seems to be trying to flip to the side that sticks, when it falls.

                  I know a lot of people on YT have tried to reproduce Boyd Bushman's floating wire trick, seems people have a hard time with that, I thought of Laithwaite , as soon as I saw the Bushman.

                  Back to the wave. So, you seem to like Russell's thinking , the universe breathes in and out, expands and contracts, a pulse and a breath, it's alive. This is Russell's Thinking, and others of course, its in this expansion and contraction, that gives rise to motion and the gyroscopic nature of the electric and magnetic fields, and the illusion of stability.

                  Hope this isn't too off topic.
                  Machine

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                  • #24
                    Hey Machine, this effect of breathing in & out is definitaly, real, the earth breathes in from aprox, 3pm in the afternoon, till aprox 3 am.

                    This is when you apply the Bio-Dynamic 500, spray preperation, that cost $1.50 per acre to keep your soil fertile, ( to enliven the army of nearly free, soil workers).

                    Sounds far fetched, but i have double cropped my grain paddocks, for 6 years, with no other fertiliser, and still get better than average yields.

                    i hope ther is no artificial fertiliser Company looking at this post, as most of their fertiliser, is derived from the petroleum industry, BI - PRODUCTS, ohh, no, i'm on their list too!.

                    Warm Regards Cornboy.
                    Last edited by Cornboy 555; 01-17-2014, 10:18 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                      I tried sliding a magnet down the side of large copper tube and seemed to give same effect, but I need a sheet of copper to really see if same effect happens. Not only does aluminum show a difference in direction as magnet slides down for each pole, confirming opposite curved lines, but the fact that one side sticks better also confirms that the electron fields in aluminum also are curved in a particular direction. Aluminum has one electron in it outer shell, it has spin(curve), it has to match the curve of the magnet pole, I believe.
                      I also noticed that the magnet seems to be trying to flip to the side that sticks, when it falls.
                      From a long time I got this sense that Aluminum has some remarkable properties. I'm not an expert in Walter Russell (and to be honest I don't think there are too many out there) but if you are familiar with his work, maybe the study of table of elements will give some answers. I have to have a look at it too.

                      Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                      I know a lot of people on YT have tried to reproduce Boyd Bushman's floating wire trick, seems people have a hard time with that, I thought of Laithwaite , as soon as I saw the Bushman.
                      Again bringing in information leading to new ideas. Never heard about this guy and although I don't really trust people coming from "organizations", I always keep my ear open to what it's been said or implied... Thank you, I have to spend some time with it as I couldn't find his experiment, just some other temptations to replicate it.

                      Originally posted by machinealive View Post
                      Back to the wave. So, you seem to like Russell's thinking , the universe breathes in and out, expands and contracts, a pulse and a breath, it's alive. This is Russell's Thinking, and others of course, its in this expansion and contraction, that gives rise to motion and the gyroscopic nature of the electric and magnetic fields, and the illusion of stability.

                      Hope this isn't too off topic.
                      Machine
                      Nothing is off topic as long as unifies ideas. Not even jokes if they make a point.
                      Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Be cause I just mentioned Leedskalnin, I cannot miss the opportunity to point an historical fact.

                        The most acclaimed experiment the PMH is not his. Possibly in his studies he just found it, replicated and used it in his own discoveries.
                        In “Davis's Manual Of Magnetism” 13-th Edition 1865, (http://ia350627.us.archive.org/2/ite...00abbogoog.pdf) we find at page 170 the early experiment describing the phenomena.
                        See also the attached picture.

                        It is possible that Ed used two coils instead of one, because of his experiments using PMH as transformer and any other configurations that might involve 2 coils. I really don't know for sure, it's all just speculation.

                        It worth to note here that because an iron core of a regular helicoidal coil exhibits the same kind of field as in Figure 12. We can “visualize” how a closed loop core has its magnetic field lines closed upon themselves and locked. Phenomena governing the PMH is like mirroring the immobility of the magnetic lines field onto the iron core.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #27
                          Breathing in and breathing out

                          Originally posted by Cornboy 555 View Post
                          Hey Machine, this effect of breathing in & out is definitaly, real, the earth breathes in from aprox, 3pm in the afternoon, till aprox 3 am.
                          The earth rotates in a magnetic field that is compressed on the sun side and expanded 180 degrees away. You've probably seem lots of pictures of the planet's magnetic "shield". Of course they are all 2 dimesional static illustrations. Take a lok at one and picture yourself fixed at a point on the planet rotating with it through that warped magnetic field.
                          File:Magnetosphere rendition.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          Now consider that the solar wind is not constant but pulses and has varying speed and density so that magnetic field is actually throbbing.
                          NOAA Solar Wind Prediction

                          Not sure about the universe but what you say is definitely true here on earth and "breathing" in and out magnetism and charged particles. The sun has magnetic and electric fields also besides the charge particles it emits.
                          Heliospheric current sheet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                          Note in that link the planets shown inside the current sheet.


                          Then of course we have interstellar and intergalactic magnetic fields and charged particles bombarding us from all directions all time time.

                          Some might wonder about the magnetic fields at those ranges but magnetism decreases as the cube root of the distance and that means it never really goes to zero no matter how far away the source is. We may not be able to measure it but it's still there.

                          I found an interesting correlation between Tesla's radiant energy receiver as shown in his patent and the solar wind. The readings from my device were inversely proportional to the solar wind density, i.e the solar wind was blocking whatever the elevated plate was receiving like a cloud going between the sun and a photovoltaic panel. But only in my daytime readings, i.e. when my position was on the sun side. Actually they were about an hour either side of sunrise and sunset.
                          Last edited by thx1138; 01-18-2014, 03:47 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by barbosi View Post
                            Hello indio and welcome to my fascination with magnetism, although I would love in exchange to hear about individual experiences of everyone visiting this thread. Related to magnetism of course. I won't protest if anyone would jump in discussing electric fields in relationship to the magnetic ones. I don't want to be the only “leader” of the thread. I feel like drained after just answering questions.



                            With the link you shared, I am not sure what to say. Maybe because there is one buzz word which may arouse some people but not me: Quantum. I really enjoy simple things and I don't understand why people should invent new words for old phenomena. I can see some times clouds in the sky, like sitting on a glass ceiling and I can see how an upward pressure can hold them up there. I can “see” layers of magnetism behaving the same way. But to admit that all is because of a constant... A constant is a number and no matter how important might be, it does not explain the “why”. It is like telling the circle is that way because of Pi. And Plank's explanations to me look like stating what was noticed.

                            I see there have been used two layers of ferromagnetic material, it looks like they want to capitalize on the layer structure which occurs naturally.

                            I thank you for pointing to this article, and will have to spend time, serious time if I see there is something I could use. I don't always get it and especially for the first time.


                            I always try to consider all variables and I have to tell the truth, I am not Zeus and I have to live up to my human condition. If you think there is a catch that I might have missed, please let me know. All I was impressed was the simplicity of experiment and the focalized fascicle coming from beyond the luminescent surface which is by design orthogonal to the screen.
                            Also, but I did not mention before, because of the tree-color dot structure, the composed resultant wave creates colored structure with great resemblance to cymatics structures.
                            But you may be right, it might be an illusion afterall. Can you elaborate if you think it worth?

                            Thanks.
                            Don't get hung up the theoretical quantum stuff. I simply wanted to add this phenomena to the mix. The effect is this. They stick ferromagnetic material inside a superconductor in a coaxial configuration. Then place a magnetic field at one end. The field comes out the other end or even multiple ends nearly lossless. Their quantum theory is inadequate. Im thinking they just threw that gibberish in there simply to get the phenomena published.

                            Anyhow the experiment is the important part.

                            In regards to the crt. I just don't know if the effect is a result of the electrons ,the screen coating, the lorentz force,the magnetic field or some combination of them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by barbosi View Post
                              Yes, this is precisely what I am saying. It's an effect of many inter-changing potentials.
                              It is my opinion that we should not ignore the presence of electric field which defines the plasma it self. There is no pure magnetic or pure electric fields. They not only the interact with each other but they are born one from the other. If there is a moment of pure magnetic field, I would compare that moment with the moment when the pendulum reaches its top position. Pure potential, speed zero.
                              The great wonder to me is that matter and fields/plasma are fooled the same way as the mind.

                              Again, great share and I thank you for that.

                              As I am no more unqualified to speak on this subject as the next guy, I will share my opinions of my observations while looking at the whole. The title of this thread "just magnetic fields" is an impossible topic. The dance between electro motive, electrostatic, and magnetic become quite apparent with any in-depth study of magnetism. If you look at any of the greats work, you will see they all moved from one discipline to next and back again. The homopolar dynamo of Maxwells was nothing more than the study of eddy currents. Tesla too, dove into this study to build on Maxwell's shared designs. Professor Laithwaite took it step further and showed us that you can actually move solid objects with just the "wind" of magnetism. Much like plasma particles are easily "pushed" by field/force of a magnet, so is aluminum. Why? To understand the nature of eddy currents and the associated magnetic fields will, in my opinion, give us much understanding in the fundamentals of magnetic flow, or as you put it barbosi, potentials. I think you are on your way to a understanding of the fundamentals of all. As someone who likes to master one thing before moving on to the next, I realized I would continue to struggle immensely without all the pieces to the puzzle. If you look close enough, you will see the three forces at work together in harmony. I think we have made it harder than it has to be by stubbornly trying to separate the three as individual forces to be reckoned with.

                              While I am no fan of Boyd Bushman, I do agree with his assessment that we have 3-4 forces which we have not yet named, and are somehow related to the three above. The aether being the collection of many forces. Another conjecture, while I'm throwing opinions based on observational intuitions, is that magnetism is somehow involved in the cohesion of the universe of all things. If you observe Tesla's studies in chronological order, you will see that he had a purpose for everything he studied. One led to another and so on. Always with his eye on that final target of understanding the forces of nature that holds it all together.

                              Sorry for this long post. With all of that long winded conjecture, let me say again. Study the eddys. I believe they will tell the story of magnetism. Excellent thread barbosi. Thank you for asking the most fundamental question of all. What are we working with when building and testing AE devices.

                              Randy
                              _

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by thx1138 View Post
                                The earth rotates in a magnetic field that is compressed on the sun side and expanded 180 degrees away. You've probably seem lots of pictures of the planet's magnetic "shield". Of course they are all 2 dimesional static illustrations. Take a lok at one and picture yourself fixed at a point on the planet rotating with it through that warped magnetic field.
                                File:Magnetosphere rendition.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                                Now consider that the solar wind is not constant but pulses and has varying speed and density so that magnetic field is actually throbbing.
                                NOAA Solar Wind Prediction

                                Not sure about the universe but what you say is definitely true here on earth and "breathing" in and out magnetism and charged particles. The sun has magnetic and electric fields also besides the charge particles it emits.
                                Heliospheric current sheet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                Note in that link the planets shown inside the current sheet.


                                Then of course we have interstellar and intergalactic magnetic fields and charged particles bombarding us from all directions all time time.

                                Some might wonder about the magnetic fields at those ranges but magnetism decreases as the cube root of the distance and that means it never really goes to zero no matter how far away the source is. We may not be able to measure it but it's still there.

                                I found an interesting correlation between Tesla's radiant energy receiver as shown in his patent and the solar wind. The readings from my device were inversely proportional to the solar wind density, i.e the solar wind was blocking whatever the elevated plate was receiving like a cloud going between the sun and a photovoltaic panel. But only in my daytime readings, i.e. when my position was on the sun side. Actually they were about an hour either side of sunrise and sunset.

                                Hello thx1138, what device are you refering to?

                                Regards Cornboy.

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