Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[Cadman]

Hi Ufo,

There are no magnetic poles in the toroid. No North, no South. It is closed. The magnetic field is contained within. That field has a direction and magnitude, but no poles.

Regards,

bi

I repeat; you have no clue about the Figuera part G. Ever hear of consequent poles? If you don't believe it then build it and see for yourself.

CM

[bistander]

What's your problem

Ufo,

Why are you arguing about this? It's obvious that Bistander doesn't have a clue when it comes to the part G of Figuera. Even after you and others have shown the flow he is still arguing that it is otherwise.

Too many imaginary builders here. Build nothing = learn nothing.

Stop wasting your time arguing with people who want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

CM

Hi CM,

So Ufo wasted his time learning how the generator exciter works from Carroll and me this morning? Maybe he feels differently. BTW, why didn't you explain that for him?

I've built much higher complexity projects than this years ago. Here I'm trying to share some with a few guys. Why do you have a problem with that?

bi

[Cadman]

Ufo,

Why are you arguing about this? It's obvious that Bistander doesn't have a clue when it comes to the part G of Figuera. Even after you and others have shown the flow he is still arguing that it is otherwise.

Too many imaginary builders here. Build nothing = learn nothing.

Stop wasting your time arguing with people who want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

CM

[bistander]

I did not say there was an "external field outside of toroid core"...I know very well there is an external field, but it is so weak is negligible.

The area to check for lighter green on view film would be right at where both connection terminals are located, assuming that wind is all around core, and that is inside iron core, not outside.

25 turns of heavy wire with 40 amps In?...wow!...was it AC or DC?

Anyways thanks for checking it


Regards


Ufopolitics

Was DC. You never did understand view film. It only reacts to a field passing through it. If there is no external field outside the toroid, there is no field impinging the film, therefore no change in color or shade.

My film was large enough to cover the entire toroidal coil. I got a good look at it.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Nope. I just did it. Nothing. No change to viewing film from no current to 40 Amps. I'm guessing that is about its rating. Maybe a little smaller than a hockey puc with like 25 turns heavy magnet wire. Removed from a commercial power supply, so was neatly probably machine wound. Nice flat surface for view film. Nothing at all showed on the film. In other words, no external field outside the core. Try it yourself.

bi

I did not say there was an "external field outside of toroid core"...I know very well there is an external field, but it is so weak is negligible.

The area to check for lighter green on view film would be right at where both connection terminals are located, assuming that wind is all around core, and that is inside iron core, not outside.

25 turns of heavy wire with 40 amps In?...wow!...was it AC or DC?

Anyways thanks for checking it


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

More pole stuff

Bistander,

So, Magnetic Poles only apply to magnets?...not to Electromagnets according to You?

I did not say that. An electromagnet is a magnet. Poles apply. But as I mentioned to you long ago, I went years in the industry without using North or South pole designation. Just vector. The magnetic field is all you need. N & S poles are just visual aids for those who needs it.

bi

[bistander]

Quick test

EDIT: And right now...I could predict that under view film, we will see a clear light green line...right there at entrance-exit of currents...or a Dielectric Field in that specific cross section area.

Nope. I just did it. Nothing. No change to viewing film from no current to 40 Amps. I'm guessing that is about its rating. Maybe a little smaller than a hockey puc with like 25 turns heavy magnet wire. Removed from a commercial power supply, so was neatly probably machine wound. Nice flat surface for view film. Nothing at all showed on the film. In other words, no external field outside the core. Try it yourself.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

And poles are a property of a magnet, not a field. In fact you should be able to find definition of magnetic pole as the end, or surface of a magnet where the magnetic field exits or enters the magnet. Leaving the magnet results in a North and entering the magnet results in a South pole.

Entering or leaving refers to the direction of the field and does not imply movement.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

So, Magnetic Poles only apply to magnets?...not to Electromagnets according to You?

About magnetic vectors directions...we already discussed about that...and You and I know we both see this completely different points of view.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Poles

Bistander,

There are many ways to energize a toroidal core with wire loop windings, and based on the way it is done, then, accordingly magnetism would manifest.

The most typical way is when a full wind with a start and end next to each others and through the whole toroid where currents enters one way and exits on the end...or viceversa, it will generate a magnetic force running through core continuously. However, right at the very core section defined by the entrance and exit of currents, there would be polarization encounters of opposite nature (N-S).

The fact that the Toroid Electromagnet's poles are fusing within iron core at that specific sectional area is exactly as when we close the gap between two attracting magnets between their N-S, as once they fuse together those two poles are no longer observable, but now only at the ends of both joint magnets. However, those two poles are exactly right there...and will not be "observable" again until we separate them.

In a Toroid Field there is a constant Attraction-Fusion taking place at the entrance-exit of currents at coil terminals.

But regardless of that...the way MM is energizing the G Core is completely different as any other type of winding done to a toroid ever...therefore more complex results.

Anyways, this is the way I see this...and we will not know real results until is finished and shown working or not.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't "ever" been done. I wound toroid cores like that decades ago.

And poles are a property of a magnet, not a field. In fact you should be able to find definition of magnetic pole as the end, or surface of a magnet where the magnetic field exits or enters the magnet. Leaving the magnet results in a North and entering the magnet results in a South pole.

Entering or leaving refers to the direction of the field and does not imply movement.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Come on. You surely have seen closed core transformers.

Bistander,

There are many ways to energize a toroidal core with wire loop windings, and based on the way it is done, then, accordingly magnetism would manifest.

The most typical way is when a full wind with a start and end next to each others and through the whole toroid where currents enters one way and exits on the end...or viceversa, it will generate a magnetic force running through core continuously. However, right at the very core section defined by the entrance and exit of currents, there would be polarization encounters of opposite nature (N-S).

The fact that the Toroid Electromagnet's poles are fusing within iron core at that specific sectional area is exactly as when we close the gap between two attracting magnets between their N-S, as once they fuse together those two poles are no longer observable, but now only at the ends of both joint magnets. However, those two poles are exactly right there...and will not be "observable" again until we separate them.

In a Toroid Field there is a constant Attraction-Fusion taking place at the entrance-exit of currents at coil terminals.

But regardless of that...the way MM is energizing the G Core is completely different as any other type of winding done to a toroid ever...therefore more complex results.

Anyways, this is the way I see this...and we will not know real results until is finished and shown working or not.

By the way...this has triggered my interest in order to observe a toroid e-magnet under ferrocell as CRT and View Film...

EDIT: And right now...I could predict that under view film, we will see a clear light green line...right there at entrance-exit of currents...or a Dielectric Field in that specific cross section area.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Bistander,

A magnetic field without poles?

Never have seen one magnetic field like that, swear it, honestly.


Thanks


Ufopolitics

Come on. You surely have seen closed core transformers.

Opposites Attract: A Review of Basic Magnetic Theories

Here is a good article on the subject. It show the flux and mmf in several closed core magnetic circuits.

bi

[bistander]

...
I see what you mean, and I do not have a 175 V DC Battery to do that test...but I see that by separating the two circuits they will no longer be "dependent" from each others...as they would no longer be self sustaining either...as battery keeps emptying out...and resistor becoming hotter and hotter.
...

Hi Ufo,

Separating the circuits with a battery and resistor is an analytical tool or method not really intended for testing, but no reason you couldn't.

"Self sustaining" is a misnomer as the exciter is powered by mechanical energy taken from the prime mover via the shaft.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

There are no magnetic poles in the toroid. No North, no South. It is closed. The magnetic field is contained within. That field has a direction and magnitude, but no poles.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

A magnetic field without poles?

Never have seen one magnetic field like that, swear it, honestly.


Thanks


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

No poles

Citfta,

I am sorry, but You could be very wrong in your prediction above.

The Flux density would not be the same through the whole toroid core, and this is due to the two separated and opposed magnetic fields which are constantly varying over time...defined from the gym Cross Section "A" to both output ports, which happens to be connected "indirectly" through primaries windings to the negative source terminal.

Two Magnetic Fields would be generated from A to L1 (N + Out Port) and from A to L2 (S + Out Port).

"A" Cross Section is exactly the center between both opposed Magnetic Poles, whether North or South facing each others. And this is a highly Compressed Field Area.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG]

Hi Ufo,

There are no magnetic poles in the toroid. No North, no South. It is closed. The magnetic field is contained within. That field has a direction and magnitude, but no poles.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

... The flux density is the same all the way around the toroid. ...

This is true.

bi