Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[bistander]

Toroid flux

Hello Citfta,

What I think happens by winding Toroid in the "Mystery" way...is that Flux Fringes out (into Space) where there is lack of winding turns...same as it happens when there is a Core Air Gap.

It also can occur when winding is poorly done (not tight, not evenly spaced apart turns, etc)

FLUX FRINGING

Anyways, this is just my take on this.

Regards


Ufopolitics

Citfta, thanks for the vid.

Ufo, not a bad take on it. I think when he uses the iron powder he is pulsing the coil(s) with high current which would drive the core into saturation. Core saturation would cause excessive fringing. However due to the opposing coil(s)'s mmf, my theory is zero flux in the core. So one could say "zero net flux in the core" and allow for localized core saturation? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Here is a frame showing the iron powder pattern of the mystery winding.





In the second image I added a possible area of "N-pole" and "S-pole" as well as my turn count. It is interesting that the poles appear to be outside the coils and core, not on the surface of the core. It is almost as if the surface repels the iron powder. Compare to the bar magnet/iron powder pattern where there is a strong accumulation at the surface pole.



BTW, I proposed this "Mystery" winding a while back.

edit: Weird thought. What if you wound the left half of the toroid backwards from the right side half? Mutual inductance would add instead of subtract.

And did you notice his inductance measurements confirm what seaad posted?

Interesting stuff. Know where I can buy some iron powder?

Regards,

bi

ps. What is a TPU?

[Ufopolitics]

With all the discussion about how toroids work I thought this might be an interesting video to look at. A lot of it has to do with the TPU but the testing of the fields around a toroid is educational.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2vAMmn2WzI

Hello Citfta,

What I think happens by winding Toroid in the "Mystery" way...is that Flux Fringes out (into Space) where there is lack of winding turns...same as it happens when there is a Core Air Gap.

It also can occur when winding is poorly done (not tight, not evenly spaced apart turns, etc)

FLUX FRINGING

Anyways, this is just my take on this.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[citfta]

Interesting Toroid video

With all the discussion about how toroids work I thought this might be an interesting video to look at. A lot of it has to do with the TPU but the testing of the fields around a toroid is educational.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2vAMmn2WzI

[Ufopolitics]

From Perpetual Motion:The History of an Obsession

Quote from Figuera. It has to be simple.Whatever you talk about - it has to be simple scientific fact.
There was a comment from Figuera imho about Columbus egg but I can't find it. Anybody ?

That Phrase was from Clemente Figuera, it originally appeared on the Book :

Motion Perpetual: History of an Obsession by Arthur W.J.G. Ord-Hume P-89

the only extraordinary point about it is that it has taken so long to discover a simple scientific fact. not with models or sketches, but with a working apparatus. His inventions comprise a generator, a motor, and a sort of governor or regulator, and the whole apparatus is so simple that a child could work it ...

It also appears in Patrick J Kelly's Book: A Practical guide to Free Energy Chapter Three (Motionless Pulsed Systems)

And basically that "Scientific Fact" simply refers to moving just the Virtual Magnetic Fields within Iron Cores-Copper Coils to Induce an EMF at Secondaries (Generating Fields) exactly the same way as it has been done -and up to now- but instead, by using huge engines to move also huge steel rotor fields...


Thanks Boguslaw for bringing that phrase from Figuera's, here

Only have to Google the whole phrase and you will have those first hits above...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[boguslaw]

Hi boguslaw,

Please tell me what you're talking about. What is it and what is the simple scientific fact?

Thanks,

bi

Quote from Figuera. It has to be simple.Whatever you talk about - it has to be simple scientific fact.
There was a comment from Figuera imho about Columbus egg but I can't find it. Anybody ?

[marathonman]

What it is

The simple scientific fact is Duel Complimentary Motional Electric Fields.
MM

[bistander]

What is it?

"the extraordinary point about it is that it has taken so long to discover a simple scientific fact"

Hi boguslaw,

Please tell me what you're talking about. What is it and what is the simple scientific fact?

Thanks,

bi

[boguslaw]

"the extraordinary point about it is that it has taken so long to discover a simple scientific fact"

[Ufopolitics]

From Virtuality to Reality...at what "air gap" now?

You'll just have to show me what I can do with the resulting virtual energy. Thanks.

I will show you, of course...You have a reserved "Guest of Honor" Seat, a VIP right in the very front row...

Oh!...and then you would observe very close then decide for yourself if it is "Virtual or Real Energy" there...

My pleasure


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

...

Exactly the Displacement Distance (moving Center) of the two virtual fields common center throughout the Secondary Core axis...understand now?

I guess so. Distance between two virtual things... so it must be a virtual gap. You'll just have to show me what I can do with the resulting virtual energy. Thanks.

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Ufo,

Hello Bistander, my pleasure

If "virtual" things conserve energy then using virtual to describe a field delivering free energy is a contradiction. But just words.... Let's see the hardware produce.

The fact that a certain particle conserves energy, does not means it can not influence other materials or specifically other particles within...with the same basic Energy form as they have...

For example a shower of photons hit a photocell...and results in usable energy...however, did those photons loose any properties?...or did they disintegrate by hitting photocell protecting glass?

The Virtual Field is exactly the same thing...a permanent magnet field will keep transferring by Influencing same spins -as it has- into copper conductors...which multiply with ferromagnetic cores...while magnet looses absolutely nothing (conserves its energy)...this is the basic principle of Free Energy...

Sorry, I don't follow you about gaps. When you see an opportunity, please point out the gap(s) in the device.

Exactly the Displacement Distance (moving Center) of the two virtual fields common center fluctuating throughout the Secondary Core axis...understand now?

In actual generators the gap between core to core (material) must be very tiny according to Classic Laws losses in Space...right?

...Magnetically, the only part of the coil turn (or wrap as some call it) is the part that passes through the center of the doughnut hole.

You left out the most important word in my statement.... MAGNETICALLY. To the magnetic circuit, the mmf derives from only the current passing through the magnetic circuit, as described by Ampere's Law. The wires circling the outsides of the core are just "end-turns" connecting the necessary circuit to enable current in the active conductor which passes thru the ring of flux.

Regards,

bi

Oh!...I see!!, something similar as: "The Conductors which produce MMF converted to EMF in a Generator are Only the conductors segments which are Perpendicular to the Magnetic Field Plane..."...So all the rest of conductors segments, -not parallel to field plane- in the loop...are merely acting as "conductors" of the whole circuit...

Right?

But applying it here to Toroid Laws...

I see...


Thanks Bistander.


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Real or virtual

Bistander,

Basically I meant "Virtual" because it is NOT PHYSICAL1 : Being such in essence or effect though not formally recognized or admitted.

2 : of, relating to, or being a hypothetical particle whose existence is inferred from indirect evidence <virtual photons>

Above definitions taken from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I would say #1 will fit your way of thinking specifically...since you are of the thought that the "Spatial Field" further away from the air gaps in any Electrodynamics Machines...is considered as being neglected by actual science...and so, the "main and REAL fields" at work for your concepts...(due of course to your Classic Box training) in any of those machines would be ONLY the ones completely and intrinsically attached to their magnetic carriers like electromagnets or permanent magnets Cores...plus their very limited and "tiny" air gaps displacement...

#2 shows clearly we have defined Photons as Virtual...but they exist and are very real right?...Oh, but we can not see them...feel them...or touch them...Uhmmm.......massless, weightless and transparent Photons...same properties as Spatial Magnetic Fields don'tcha think?



Ahhh...Wonderful!!...Now you are starting to evolve into the Future, and out of that Box!!...and that is grrreat!!

But, not only Part G causes fluctuations on the primaries electromagnets...but also Fields expands all the way to the -in between- Secondaries...now can you take a closer look at Air Gaps here between both primaries gap, which are the "Field Generators", then notice this is beyond the size of a conventional air gap in a typical generator ?

Because we are talking here about a Spatial Magnetic Field Fluctuations which Scope is completely beyond the limited size of expansions contractions which were thought to you by classic electrodynamics magnetism...and that is achieved without moving primaries electromagnets mass... not even a millimeter mechanically...



But I love being there..!!...no noise from absolutely no one who is NOT BUILDING like We ALL are!!!

As you will all soon see how from Virtuality...we make Reality...



I really do not understand your underlined, bold statement above...we all must go with the wire through the toroid (or donut) hole in order to wind a toroid...

About leaving some room...making windings a bit loose...I said that on video...as well as I have written about it many times.

What we can not do ...is to make lousy windings like when we cross wind turns or leave longer or uneven spacing between winds (turns)...

But thanks for your concerns Bistander.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Thanks Ufo,

I did look up the meaning of virtual. I still fail to see how it actually applies except in your imagination. And there are real photons. It seems virtual photons are used in some calculations. Here is an interesting take on it from Wikipedia:

Virtual particles do not necessarily carry the same mass as the corresponding real particle, although they always conserve energy and momentum.

If "virtual" things conserve energy then using virtual to describe a field delivering free energy is a contradiction. But just words.... Let's see the hardware produce.

Sorry, I don't follow you about gaps. When you see an opportunity, please point out the gap(s) in the device.

Magnetically, the only part of the coil turn (or wrap as some call it) is the part that passes through the center of the doughnut hole.

You left out the most important word in my statement.... MAGNETICALLY. To the magnetic circuit, the mmf derives from only the current passing through the magnetic circuit, as described by Ampere's Law. The wires circling the outsides of the core are just "end-turns" connecting the necessary circuit to enable current in the active conductor which passes thru the ring of flux.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,

By virtual, do you mean "not really there"? Like generated in some computer simulation or alternate reality but undetectable in the real world?

Bistander,

Basically I meant "Virtual" because it is NOT PHYSICAL1 : Being such in essence or effect though not formally recognized or admitted.

2 : of, relating to, or being a hypothetical particle whose existence is inferred from indirect evidence <virtual photons>

Above definitions taken from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I would say #1 will fit your way of thinking specifically...since you are of the thought that the "Spatial Field" further away from the air gaps in any Electrodynamics Machines...is considered as being neglected by actual science...and so, the "main and REAL fields" at work for your concepts...(due of course to your Classic Box training) in any of those machines would be ONLY the ones completely and intrinsically attached to their magnetic carriers like electromagnets or permanent magnets Cores...plus their very limited and "tiny" air gaps displacement...

#2 shows clearly we have defined Photons as Virtual...but they exist and are very real right?...Oh, but we can not see them...feel them...or touch them...Uhmmm.......massless, weightless and transparent Photons...same properties as Spatial Magnetic Fields don'tcha think?

Because this fluctuation in the signal from your partG is real and causes real fluctuations in the fields of the primaries.

Ahhh...Wonderful!!...Now you are starting to evolve into the Future, and out of that Box!!...and that is grrreat!!

But, not only Part G causes fluctuations on the primaries electromagnets...but also Fields expands all the way to the -in between- Secondaries...now can you take a closer look at Air Gaps here between both primaries gap, which are the "Field Generators", then notice this is beyond the size of a conventional air gap in a typical generator ?

Because we are talking here about a Spatial Magnetic Field Fluctuations which Scope is completely beyond the limited size of expansions contractions which were thought to you by classic electrodynamics magnetism...and that is achieved without moving primaries electromagnets mass... not even a millimeter mechanically...

You can return to the forbidden thread where you only have to deal with the goodfellows and never a discouraging word but it is all silly. I know I, and I think seaad have never attacked or insulted anyone here. All I have done is circuit analysis and made comments on the device, not the people. And seaad has been running simulations. What's wrong with that?

But I love being there..!!...no noise from absolutely no one who is NOT BUILDING like We ALL are!!!

As you will all soon see how from Virtuality...we make Reality...

Here's a goodie which may be useful to those winding toroids and trying various connections. Magnetically, the only part of the coil turn (or wrap as some call it) is the part that passes through the center of the doughnut hole. Extra loose coils add some small resistance to the electric circuit but only the number of "pass-throughs" of the toroid core count as mmf (Ampere-turns). I'd leave the coil loosely wound until you've worked out the number of turns, location of taps, and wire size. Then rewind tightly to minimize resistance and varnish in place for durability.

Regards,

bi

I really do not understand your underlined, bold statement above...we all must go with the wire through the toroid (or donut) hole in order to wind a toroid...

About leaving some room...making windings a bit loose...I said that on video...as well as I have written about it many times.

What we can not do ...is to make lousy windings like when we cross wind turns or leave longer or uneven spacing between winds (turns)...

But thanks for your concerns Bistander.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Virtual

...

Wake up!!, main point here is that Virtual Fields Fluctuations Displacement DO Generate an Induction on Secondaries...I did that rough test and got same light bulbs lit up hooked directly to secondary coil. And at low frequencies.

Spatial Virtual Fluctuations from Static Primaries Electromagnets Fields DO generate an EMF Induction on Secondaries.

Whether the methods may vary to achieve field fluctuations, the main goal, the proof of concept from Figuera's main idea is real and it does work!!
...

Ufo,

By virtual, do you mean "not really there"? Like generated in some computer simulation or alternate reality but undetectable in the real world? Because this fluctuation in the signal from your partG is real and causes real fluctuations in the fields of the primaries.

You can return to the forbidden thread where you only have to deal with the goodfellows and never a discouraging word but it is all silly. I know I, and I think seaad have never attacked or insulted anyone here. All I have done is circuit analysis and made comments on the device, not the people. And seaad has been running simulations. What's wrong with that?

Here's a goodie which may be useful to those winding toroids and trying various connections. Magnetically, the only part of the coil turn (or wrap as some call it) is the part that passes through the center of the doughnut hole. Extra loose coils add some small resistance to the electric circuit but only the number of "pass-throughs" of the toroid core count as mmf (Ampere-turns). I'd leave the coil loosely wound until you've worked out the number of turns, location of taps, and wire size. Then rewind tightly to minimize resistance and varnish in place for durability.

Regards,

bi

[seaad]

UFO Quote: "" How did you come up with such output at secondaries being that yellow shaped signal?...which happens to be identical to fields signal? ""

Not out!

INGOING current, feeding the contraption from the PSU. Its frequency is 2 x the output frequency! Amp scale to the right.
I wanted to show you that with my component values and 24V and below 10 Amps you can still use your (weak) PSU.
Arne