My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[HuntingRoss]

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks UFO.

My pleasure Mark...

Like I wrote before, I am also doing this (while leaving everything else in "stand by") in order to clear this whole scenario that dates back quite some time by now...

One way or another I will CAD this tomorrow to demonstrate what I'm saying.

I already did Mark...

There is one thing I should seek absolute clarity on...and this could be the difference between what you're saying and what I'm understanding and this would remove all the frustration.

Right, agree 100% with you.

When we say 'connecting' or 'start firing' we mean the comm is just entering the brush...

That's right, P1 is "just" starting to touch commutator plate that corresponds to that circuit...take a look at CAD below:

[IMG]

When we say 'disconnecting' or 'cease firing' we mean the comm has fully left the brush...

Yes, correct...commutator plate is NO LONGER contacting brush...is OFF, Circuit Dead.

Here is the CAD result:

[IMG][/IMG]

Like I wrote before...you have a very narrow angle within LIMITS to do your adjustments here.

However, there are many easy solutions to fix this problem, and I will show at the end of post...

Mark, the MAIN part I would like you to understand basically out of ALL this, is that by no means, once you visualize your CAD, and Rotate its Rotor objects together...you must never allow that P2 Coils 2 passes the South Bisector while is still ON!!P2 is turning off too close to South Stator

And the Magnetic Influence from whole P2 coil 2, still will be opposing to rotation at those close limits.

Therefore what I highly recommend Mark, is to take a good look at this previous post I did four pages back...OVERLAPPING ALL NORTH PAIRS

[Ufopolitics]

Overlapped All North 12 Pairs

Thanks UFO.


Happy Hunting

mark

Ok Mark, the Overlapped Coils in each Pair 'series'.


Four Poles:

[IMG][/IMG]


Five Poles:

[IMG][/IMG]


Note that it reduced the interacting angle from bisector to bisector from 150 to 120 degrees.

However, notice in order to keep about same angles, when winding five poles you do need to overlap grabbing two poles from first coil, instead of just one in four poles coils.


IMPORTANT: I forgot to set the Brush at 11 degrees for this two IMGS, so, consider that, or rolling one element back for comm element connection, which ever is easier.


Nice hunting!



Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

[Ufopolitics]

Mark,

I just need you to keep in mind what I am quoting below from my previous post:

P2 is turning off too close to South Stator

And the Magnetic Influence from whole P2 coil 2, still will be opposing to rotation at those close limits under high speed rotation (Magnetic "Inertia").

Any build that you make not complying with this main aspects above, honestly is a waste of time friend.


They will render same results as you had before.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

Mark,

I just need you to keep in mind what I am quoting below from my previous post:

Any build that you make not complying with this main aspects above, honestly is a waste of time friend.


They will render same results as you had before.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Consistency

[HuntingRoss]

[Ufopolitics]

Mark,

This is what I was referring to:

[IMG][/IMG]

On left was all your original basic rotor-commutator structures during all your prior wrong testing, look at your Commutator Diameter, and then...

Look at your latest (yesterday) design on right...You drew the Commutator and Brush in a completely different scale, much bigger this time while keeping the same rotor diameter...

Also, in this later CAD, you "decided" to set the P1 Commutator Contact Element..."in another place"...messing up the whole timing that you had established before.

And of course, P2 is missing...what for right?...just with P1 alone proves your "point".

This is called "INCONSISTENCY" on CAD's design....out of scale models and all relating to the SAME, EXACT Structure, and of course the later model is going to "BENEFIT" what you are claiming having an issue, a problem with...right?

Take a look at Picture below Mark:


[IMG][/IMG]


I am pretty sure you knew about all this right Mark?...so, do you think it would be EXACTLY the same to sweep Commutator Element-Brush at left as the smaller one at right?!

Of course not!...smaller circumference switching plates/brush are going to turn on-off faster than wider area switching at left image.

[HuntingRoss]

Hi UFO

I have not 'flown away'.

I thought it was right and best to not continue to argue a point on timing which I well understand and so I retired graciously from the discussion to avoid detracting from the excellent work from you and all the other hard working people that give their time and effort freely to promote this important work.

I'm disappointed to see the other things you have said about me and my work here but will not defend or justify it here as I believe it would not be correct to do so.

It is however an extremely important foot note that I must make. I have never stated or implied your Asymm design is a failure. I would not have spent so much time trying to replicate it if I believed that. If there is any failure, it is mine. I tried and failed to replicate your design. That is all that has happened.

As I say, I will continue to try and replicate your work in my efforts to develop a different scooter/dirt bike platform.

I wish you the very best in this and every project.

With best regards

mark

[GChilders]

Stalling electric motors

@UFOPolitics
Raul thank you for your quick help on the part number for the wedges it is greatly appreciated. I have completed over a hundred timing tests with 4 different windings and am digesting the results now. I have tested the motor pairs, the generator pairs and the both of them under power. I have had to rewind and repair rotors and now have a bank of proof to put together in the form of movies on each winding. The results have been more instructive than I ever would have thought they would be. Truly the all north in all three configurations that I have wound have out performed the symmetrical oem version of the goldmine motors. The problem that most have with these motors in my opinion is the lack of patience to truly apply a scientific method to their research. It is not enough to just put one together. Do you think it was easy for the early researchers to come up with the amazing results they did over a hundred years ago. No they worked constantly on their models until they came up with consistently reproducible results. I am reminded of the early hot rodders that were on every street corner when I was growing up. Taking their stock engines, polishing and porting the valves, reworking the cam timings and carburetion. Trying to get that last little bit of performance out of each model.
I have another day of testing before I am finished and then I will try to publish the videos based on all of these findings so others can see for themselves the amazing results that I am seeing.
Raul I would like to consider with you the problem of torque testing where an electric motor is brought to a stall. I think that most of these tests were developed for steam and gasoline engines and not electric motors and the tests themselves are destructive for a high performance electric motor. When you stall an electric motor you are creating a short across the motor winding that the brush pair is feeding. As you are aware our motors are capable of carrying much higher amounts of voltage and amperage than the oem motors are in every situation except one, A Dead Short which occurs at stall. The only way these motors should ever be tested to a stall is with a circuit breaker installed or fuse to protect the motor against a dead short situation. Better to replace a fuse or reset a breaker than rewind a motor. Just food for thought.

Cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

Tank Circuits

@Sampojo
Sorry I didn't get back to your question earlier. The method that I was discussing and will be testing after the timing tests are finished and the videos are edited and released will be a type of tank circuit that UFO has been demonstrating on many of his applications. The first time that I saw it was on his cold electricity coil. In the other thread at the beginning this was used. I have looked at this and John Bedini's method of charging batteries with the SSG charger and have seen a similarity in the two. In addition to this I have replicated and built several solid state chargers Imhotep's which I know you are familiar with and the Tesla Switch which was developed by a contemporary of Tesla, Ron Cole. There have been various successful replications of this device which seems basic in it's concept but most agree that the timing is somewhat difficult to accomplish. Electrodyne Corporation had a successful replication with a mechanical switching device and Bedini successfully replicated a solid state device. I am experimenting with a new take on merging three methods to collect energy from the bemf of the pulses that we use for powering the motor, into a bank of capacitors. I have a couple of tests in mind that I have tested that demonstrate why PWM is inferior to incremental increases in frequency. This is still experimental and I will demonstrate how that once you move the motor above the 50% duty cycle in the pwm controller the coils start generating more heat and actually stop generating electricity through the bemf. The coils at the top of the duty cycle range become so charged with current that other coils are becoming inductive. This could be collected and recycled but there is a loss of energy due to the motor coils becoming extremely hot. I will go over this in more detail prior to the tests.

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

@UFOPolitics
Raul thank you for your quick help on the part number for the wedges it is greatly appreciated.

Hello Garry,

My pleasure friend, it only took me the time to get the box, write number and post it...minutes of time.

I have completed over a hundred timing tests with 4 different windings and am digesting the results now. I have tested the motor pairs, the generator pairs and the both of them under power. I have had to rewind and repair rotors and now have a bank of proof to put together in the form of movies on each winding. The results have been more instructive than I ever would have thought they would be.

Patience makes "Magic" works...

I really appreciate all you are doing here by yourself Garry, but am sure it is very rewarding to see the great results obtained...the power of learning is one of the best capability we own...but sharing what we've learned and experienced is the sky in itself within Us.

Truly the all north in all three configurations that I have wound have out performed the symmetrical oem version of the goldmine motors.

Yes Garry they all do...I knew that the first time I started playing with the "extended" versions from the first one I made a few years back...the Three Pole Asymmetric.

There is a "basic knowledge" required about Magnetism and Ferromagnetism Influences/Exchange properties... in order to understand the reason why the all North work so beautiful...but I will explain that in my other Thread coming soon...

The problem that most have with these motors in my opinion is the lack of patience to truly apply a scientific method to their research.

Patience is essential...however, We keep looking at our watches...and patience vanishes then...Time rules everything, but we have to think for the Future by "sacrificing the present"...it is the only way, then realize we have enough time to finish it...

It is not enough to just put one together. Do you think it was easy for the early researchers to come up with the amazing results they did over a hundred years ago. No they worked constantly on their models until they came up with consistently reproducible results. I am reminded of the early hot rodders that were on every street corner when I was growing up. Taking their stock engines, polishing and porting the valves, reworking the cam timings and carburetion. Trying to get that last little bit of performance out of each model.

The very rewarding point comes in when you find that "key" to make it work beautiful...then, it it could be reproduced over and over...and exact same successful results...isn't it worthy?...I believe it is.

Yes, the old machines...to get them in right timing is a real pain in the neck...I have worked there...I have replaced timing chains, sprockets...distributor shafts...guides, etc...I have rebuilt so many carburetors...Webber, Holley...Two and Four Barrel...rebuilt Electronic Diesel Fuel Pumps, Heads removal and Replacement...I know almost everything about Fuel Engines friend...and just a "hair" off ...and the thing will start misfiring like crazy...or the whole thing could collapse, just because of a miss calculation...and boom...gone...right?

I have another day of testing before I am finished and then I will try to publish the videos based on all of these findings so others can see for themselves the amazing results that I am seeing.

I am pretty sure many here are expecting that precious moment Garry...as I can tell about myself as well...

Raul I would like to consider with you the problem of torque testing where an electric motor is brought to a stall. I think that most of these tests were developed for steam and gasoline engines and not electric motors and the tests themselves are destructive for a high performance electric motor. When you stall an electric motor you are creating a short across the motor winding that the brush pair is feeding. As you are aware our motors are capable of carrying much higher amounts of voltage and amperage than the oem motors are in every situation except one, A Dead Short which occurs at stall. The only way these motors should ever be tested to a stall is with a circuit breaker installed or fuse to protect the motor against a dead short situation. Better to replace a fuse or reset a breaker than rewind a motor. Just food for thought.

Cheers

Garry

[bistander]

Looking for test data

Furthermore, Ufo's Post 3132 seem to disprove conventional wisdom. Anytime more energy can be garnered as in an open system, it would actually disprove the conventional wisdom that the rules of conservation of energy apply to the electric motor, as a closed system.

Hi Sam,

I am particularly interested in tests which have been documented so I watched that one from post #3132 several times. I noticed a discrepancy in the manner in which the input current was measured. Subsequent posts confirm that the current measurement was flawed and the test was invalid.

Can you provide links to other tests which have been run where input and output were measured while under load?

You also mention the test done on one of these machines at Imperial Motor Company. I cannot find any results or documentation relating to that except for some mention of commutation problems and the machine being returned. Were there ever any data taken there?

Thanks, from a new guy,

bistander

[HuntingRoss]

You also mention the test done on one of these machines at Imperial Motor Company.

Hi bistander

The post with most of the confusion around testing is in UFO's post #7338 which is number 6 in the sequence of the history to the event.

Happy Hunting

mark