My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[DadHav]

That Statement above says it all... doesn't it guys?


Cheers


Ufopolitics

As it pertains to my comment "Free energy is no longer on my bucket list"
A bucket list is usually things you would like to do before you kick the bucket right? Sometimes in life the list of things you would like to do must be replaced with a list of things you have to do. I said I'd continue to experiment when I have time, but I'll do it for fun and hobby value. If anything along the way looks like it's energy saving or unique in any manner then that only adds a plus sign to something that was already enjoyable.
Cheers, good luck with your next project.
John

[Ufopolitics]

No, Hitby...I have not...



Hello Hitby!...long time Friend!

The only drawings I have done in the Imperial All North are on This Album

There I have both ways to wind it:

In All North Groups:

[IMG][/IMG]

This is a basic Diagram of the FOUR MAIN GROUPS at "work"...each Group has Six Coils and each coil wraps around FIVE POLES, exactly the way Imperial Symmetric comes from factory. (remember that previously on the N-S Pairs we did it with SEVEN POLES.


In All North Pairs:

[IMG][/IMG]

In Pairs, the two Coils also wrap around Five Poles, and the Pair sequence comprehends Ten(10) Poles as well as the Total Poles in the Overlapped Six (6) Coils in the Group Winding.

Now, Hitby, I don't think anyone has built-so far- the Imperial All North (in either config's) as up to now (unless some silent member(s) has done it and we don't know).

Midaz and I have exchanged a few Mails about number of turns per coil (in the Group, in the Pairs I would try to do same as before...meaning around 13-15 turns per Coil, and I will love to be able to do 30 total [15 per coil in pair] just like Kogs built his N-S Pairs that ran so well here).

In the Group Winding, I believe -if my "amnesia" don't show up...- that We should try to do -at least- FIVE TURNS PER COIL...Totaling 30 turns per Group (6x5=30) (same as Total Pairs).

The Basic Timing Diagram -on Pairs- is below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Again, I have not done this winding yet...so, I don't have any details in reality...and as we all know...only Lab Building will give us the right answers related to space/room and perfect timing alignment.

I have a Full Kit ...plus a Rotor Kit (some minor damage on both, that I have to epoxy on rotor plates and smooth some light scratches on Commutators)....and I am planning to build both winding sets in those Two Rotors to be tested against the Mecc Alte Generator Head 6K.

If You want to start based on this Diagrams...any questions/doubts -during process- would be very welcome anytime my Dear Friend.


@All: If Anyone have done this winding, please, post results here to lead the rest...it would be highly appreciated .Thanks.


Kind Regards Hitby!


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Midaz, thats why I switched to salvaged car window motors. I had to refurb my blower motor on one of my cars and started salivating on the asym motor possibilities there. But blower motors are a little more expensive, but a nice size, bigger, easy to work with compared to hobby motors, and just may generate enough power to prove something... So the racing motor didn't work out? got fried in Ohio didn't it?

Hello Sam,

The Imperial that Dana did was connected wrong, it did not get fried, but some damage did happen, and am not familiar exactly what was it.

But Midaz , Dana and I, posted here all conclusions and pictures a while back...what happen?...you did not read it?

I will be winding an Imperial to be tested there...same place, so will see results sometime in the beginning of the year.

I am busy working on a new material to be disclosed before the end of 2014, and can not do it at this moment.

By the way, I have been following the progress with your Monster Driver plus some of your Machines...did you ever finished the big Baldor two Stators?


Regards friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Conversions...

Hi UFO,
Been admiring your work but am not much of an electrician. Is there anyone in S. Florida that winds motors asymmetrically? I have an 8K watt generator that I would like to convert to your specs - nice to be ready for next hurricane season.

Love your work,
Paul

Hello reidrider,


Thanks, but a Generator can not be converted to a Motor...nor to an Asymmetrical Machine either, my friend.

And, based on my knowledge...I do not know of anyone who winds motors asymmetrically -as a "established" business- in South Florida...

However, there are Threads here dedicated to do just that...convert Generators in order to avoid Lenz Law (counter reaction forces)...so they could be run by any Motor. That Thread is very young and they are just building small scale models for testing...so, hang in there...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

"Finding free energy is no longer on my bucket list."

Ha, you got that part of it right. Old Dudes can be shorter of time than you can even imagine not to mention stubborn. You should have seen the people I inherited it from. It's pretty important that we "Old Dudes" spend time doing things we enjoy, especially with family and friends. Finding free energy is no longer on my bucket list. Having fun and enjoying building things still is. #Not remembering things the way you used to #Not wanting to share something that isn't a real life application yet #Not wanting to waste peoples time and use up what small time you have left by leading a thread #Doing things your own way #Doing things when you want to do them. I don't think this is an unreasonable approach for an Old Dude. But thank you for inviting me to continue building "whatever" motor I was talking about. I'll go back through my mail to refresh my amnesia, I mean memory. It might be what I'm thinking about now. You made me sorry I ever had conversations with you. I promise you, if I end up with something worth while I'll quickly share the information with my friends.
Cheers Richie
J

Finding free energy is no longer on my bucket list.

That Statement above says it all... doesn't it guys?


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Do they have junkyards in Japan?

Ufo

I'm bored! I want to build something but I only motor I have is the huge Imperial. Copper wire and test equipment are super expensive & special order in Japan!

The used stuff is just a few dollars less but very outdated and witten in all Japanese. Japan is run by giant tech companies and Universities.


Don't worry, I will reread you answer several more times

Hey Midaz, thats why I switched to salvaged car window motors. I had to refurb my blower motor on one of my cars and started salivating on the asym motor possibilities there. But blower motors are a little more expensive, but a nice size, bigger, easy to work with compared to hobby motors, and just may generate enough power to prove something... So the racing motor didn't work out? got fried in Ohio didn't it?

[reidrider]

Hi UFO,
Been admiring your work but am not much of an electrician. Is there anyone in S. Florida that winds motors asymmetrically? I have an 8K watt generator that I would like to convert to your specs - nice to be ready for next hurricane season.

Love your work,
Paul

[HuntingRoss]

[IMG][/IMG]

Thank you UFO. That is exactly what I was trying to describe and confirms my first pairs motor was correct...just short on wire.

The new wire has arrived so I will chop and rebuild during the week.

Regards

mark

[DadHav]

John

You old dudes are way too stubborn and too short of time. The last out-runner you made was over a year and a half ago. I watched the vid a few times. I asked you questions and we spoke about asymmetric motors after that. Just make "whatever' motor you were talking about! #amnesia #anitsharing_hit #myway #bucketlist

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Ha, you got that part of it right. Old Dudes can be shorter of time than you can even imagine not to mention stubborn. You should have seen the people I inherited it from. It's pretty important that we "Old Dudes" spend time doing things we enjoy, especially with family and friends. Finding free energy is no longer on my bucket list. Having fun and enjoying building things still is. #Not remembering things the way you used to #Not wanting to share something that isn't a real life application yet #Not wanting to waste peoples time and use up what small time you have left by leading a thread #Doing things your own way #Doing things when you want to do them. I don't think this is an unreasonable approach for an Old Dude. But thank you for inviting me to continue building "whatever" motor I was talking about. I'll go back through my mail to refresh my amnesia, I mean memory. It might be what I'm thinking about now. You made me sorry I ever had conversations with you. I promise you, if I end up with something worth while I'll quickly share the information with my friends.
Cheers Richie
J

[Ufopolitics]

About Hand Rule...

I'm just a little confused.

Before I re-wire my first 'pairs' motor I need to make certain I got it right the first time.

Hello Mark,

That is the correct way of doing it...

With the shaft standing vertical,

With the Shaft standing Vertical...BUT, mainly, making sure your POSITIVE INPUT Commutator is also on that TOP. Normally We use the driving end of shaft (take off power) to be that Positive end.

[IMG][/IMG]

Then You do as shown on FIG above, on the Left Side Hand image (Blue/North Dotted Square)

That FIG above... I made it for N-S Pairs...However, it also works to get the sense of winding and obtaining North or South Poles based on your Positive wire.

slot 1 to slot 2 is CCW on the top etc.

So for a 3 + 3 all north -

Comm 1 upper goes to slot 4 to slot 1 (CW turns 3 poles) X number turns then goes to slot 7 to slot 4 (CW turns 3 poles) X number turns then goes to Comm 1 lower.

Is this correct ?

Regards

mark

For Slot numbers as You are citing above...I will need your drawing showing those numbered slots...it would help...

To do Two North Coils adjacent to each others, you wind them as a continuation of one to the other, same direction...in this case they share the same slot at center point of the two.

Now regarding your Motor...12 pole below is the Diagram of winding sequence...

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

John

You old dudes are way too stubborn and too short of time. The last out-runner you made was over a year and a half ago. I watched the vid a few times. I asked you questions and we spoke about asymmetric motors after that. Just make "whatever' motor you were talking about! #amnesia #anitsharing_hit #myway #bucketlist

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[DadHav]

John

When I invited you around, I was hoping that you would have made that brushless asymmetric outrunner you told me about. You said that would be fun and interesting for everyone. I see you have no plan of doing that... Anyway, I guess this should be your last post on this thread.

As for me, I'm just here to learn about building motors for EVs.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Midas, you would have to remind me of the conversation we had about the outrunner. I don't remember it. In my video I mentioned how I thought my work on the outrunner was similar to what was going on here but like I said no one mentioned or questioned anything about it. You are absolutely right. I have no plan on bringing my experiments onto this forum. It would be disrespectful to UFO even though respect to me has been completely disregarded in most cases. You said you where not one of the people who has offended me but now you prove you are no different than some. It isn't your business to tell me I've posted for the last time. I might decide to stay around right to the end, when ever that might be. I said at post 3,000 that there would probably be another 3,000 before seeing a test that would prove anything. I was promised by the boss that it would never happen but here we are at over 7,000 posts and even with me trying to help with testing there is no proof of claims. Every time you answer my post I will reply. I have what I'm convinced is the truth on my side. Any time you want to drop it cold I'll go away for a while. Your choice. I know you're here to learn and so was I. First you have to learn what information might be credible and what might not. I know you had conversations with important people on your side of globe and I hope things work out for you with respect to that but I'll never be untrue to myself and pretend to see something that isn't there. YET.
J

[HuntingRoss]

I'm just a little confused.

Before I re-wire my first 'pairs' motor I need to make certain I got it right the first time.

With the shaft standing vertical, slot 1 to slot 2 is CCW on the top etc.

So for a 3 + 3 all north -

Comm 1 upper goes to slot 4 to slot 1 (CW turns 3 poles) X number turns then goes to slot 7 to slot 4 (CW turns 3 poles) X number turns then goes to Comm 1 lower.

Is this correct ?

Regards

mark

[DadHav]

John,


I don't know about everyone else but I've watched all of your vids. I've also left a comment on them... As for the sh_t for brains and insults. Did I?...

I did not know why you couldn't get your motor to work. Then you said you wound two north coils covering 4 legs. You know that wouldn't work but you continued to wind the motor anyway. Then you complained about it. A simple question instead of complaining, was the correct way. You still haven't apologized for complaining about your mistakes. We all make mistakes but humble thy self.

Thank you for stopping by and show us how to do some testing. Take care

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Midas, yes I know you have watched my videos and I thought we were friends so I'm going to politely try to explain things. I probably mislead you into what you said about my RS motor builds. I said I made three motors but I didn't include the one I wound wrong. Now let me say this. I forgot about running the first one. I did wind it wrong (all north) but I did run it and I did mention that I had bad results. Bad results was not a complaint because I immediately explained that I thought I wound it wrong, explained and asked for help from UFO. I also explained because I thought if I made the mistake that others would too. I later found out that others did the same thing I did. I copied the three posts regarding this mistake for you to read. It might just be me but I don't think I was the one who should humble and apologize. Read this through:

Dad:
Hello everyone. I just tested my motor and had bad results. Listen, this is important. I think I just made a classic mistake. UFO shows that each of the 5 vee coils must have a north and south outward facing pole when energized. The instructions also say each coil has to be wound in the same direction. Think about this hard. To have a north and south in the same coil the direction has to be all the same on the core, no matter what the core is. Just because the winding is in two sections it doesn't. I wound the first coil of the vee clockwise then moved over to the next set of notches and wound another coil in the same direction. All coils in the same direction right. I wound each winding clockwise. Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the blue line be wound in one direction when working from the outside then the red in the opposite direction? Think of closing the vee so it isn't a vee anymore. If I wind all coils on all legs in the same direction, when I close the vee I have two north poles. I could be wrong and maybe everyone already knew this but if you wind all in the same direction you can get the motor to run but I was running at 5 volts and drawing 2.5 amps. I think it ran because of a slight offset in timing which could the push the offset stator around to the next position. I feel stupid if this is the case but I think it is. I thought I'd through the flag up right away just in case this is a misunderstood situation. Let me know what you think. Go ahead tell me I have poop for brains聽

UFO:
I can believe with ALL YOUR great experience in MOTORS...with all your incredible videos out there...with your thousands and thousands of U.S.D Investment in Equipments and Tooling....And all your knowledge acquired over so long...

You will DO SUCH A STUPID mistake??!!

When I stated very clear it was wound as a SINGLE COIL...it is knowledge from High School...My friend...


Then should I...expect, that my set up will be built "properly" here??!!

When Dad Hav is supposed to be the Cream of the Cream...the best of "Craftier s"...around...

BS.

Dad:
Gosh Dang it UFO. I thought for sure you'd know how dumb I felt about that. I could have just rewound it and not said anything but I was sure that others here did the same thing. It's even easier for me because I'm used to the winding schemes with the outrunner motors. ABCABCABC All coils wound the same direction and all separate in this case. In my old age my head split the the two section coil into separate ones. No excuses though, you gave me what I deserve. I grew up with Italians and I don't want you coming after me. And especially you and Thugugly and I don't even know what nationality he is.*
Thanks for answering. I hope others who made the same mistake learn from my embarrassment.
John H.

Let me ask you something Richie old Pal. Did you ever wonder why people just fade away from here without saying anything?
I'd rather we just drop conversations like this and let people finish their builds.
John

[DadHav]

I can't say yet. All options have not been explored.

Hi John

UFO a introduced everyone to a renewed design from Tesla. He went through the bulk of the open sourced project. Open sourced means everyone can share ideas. All I've heard was, " I have my own ideas about brushless" and then... no information shared! Actions speak louder than words. And pointing fingers is not going to get the job done.

UFO is busy with another New Idea/something new to the plate. This thread is open for different approaches. If you have something, Im here to learn. This is very interesting for me. I dont see why you wouldn't want to post your ideas here for everyone but you can send it to me by mail or do you have some other plan... The 5pole is not finished and you know it, like I do.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Hello Midaz, Are you forgetting this is the place where people called me Sh t For Brains and told everyone they swore they'd never be on another forum with me. I've been insulted humiliated and called names by most of the people who've been on this thread so you're minor insult about me sharing doesn't go very far. I realize now that I was to aggressive with challenging claims and test results but they where outrageous and needed to be corrected. It just so happens that I referenced a video several times here that shows adding a load to the generator coil and having the the input current drop. When the coil is fed back to the input the the current drops almost in half as well. All the time the motor stays at exactly the same RPM. No one here even acknowledged that they saw the video. Maybe you weren't around in the early days, why don't you take a look and see if my feelings aren't warranted. My promises are good. I promised everyone I'd stay away from here until someone mentioned me badly again or wanted me here for some reason. You were the one who asked me to come and suggest testing procedures. So far no one has provided anything to talk about except Mark who had a bad experience with his road tests. I'll make another promise. I won't say any more about brushless, you've heard the last of it. I've built three motors now and haven't found anything to report other than what I did in the first video. I keep trying to think of something else to try but I don't think the 2/5 will produce different results. It's just my opinion again and I hope you try it and have good test results. I also hope some tests show up from the large motor kits. For now it looks to me like a lot depends on the builds already in progress.
Take care Richie
John