Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[toranarod]

Hi guys!
I made another video; maybe someone has a better explanation for this
strange behavior of the coil - YouTube

What is the core material?
I am collecting data on all displays of this phenomena.
good Video Thank you

[mariuscivic]

What is the core material?
I am collecting data on all displays of this phenomena.
good Video Thank you

Hi!

The core is ferite from an old radio AM antena (10mm/20mm; 600 turns of 0.6 copper wire)

[toranarod]

Hi!

The core is ferite from an old radio AM antena (10mm/20mm; 600 turns of 0.6 copper wire)

is you magnet size about 10 mm or smaller.

good work. I have always had difficulty with Ferrite.

My conclusion about magnet to core ratio is that the magnet should not be bigger than the core. same size is probably the best setup.
but i stand t be corrected.

[mariuscivic]

is you magnet size about 10 mm or smaller.

good work. I have always had difficulty with Ferrite.

My conclusion about magnet to core ratio is that the magnet should not be bigger than the core. same size is probably the best setup.
but i stand t be corrected.

Bingo!

The rotor has 8 mags; 10mm cube
I made another coil with 15mm ferite diameter and i get the same effect

[Shadesz]

My conclusion about magnet to core ratio is that the magnet should not be bigger than the core. same size is probably the best setup.

Some preliminary testing I have done with core designs would also suggest a magnet no bigger than core size is the way to go.

I too stand to be corrected. Come to think of it, The current Muller design has a 2" magnet which is larger than the cores... but they don't seem to be exploiting the accelerating effect either.

[kajunkreations]

muller build

@ Rod and Elias, thanks for the welcome and Rod, I will strip anything at the moment to put on my build! I am obsessed with this whole thing.

So after reading and reading I have decided to rebuild to replicate the real Muller Motor. I have found a site with an enormous amount of info as far as a spec scaled down version. With that being said I have already started!

I made the some of the cores tonight, I am using 1' magnets so the cores are 1" in also. They are made from magnite (fe304) and polyester resin , they are constructed in the manner that Peter Lindmann describes in another thread.

There will be 10 magnets and 9 coil pairs. The wire will be 16ga with 52 turns in the conical fashion.

[Web000x]

@ Rod and Elias, thanks for the welcome and Rod, I will strip anything at the moment to put on my build! I am obsessed with this whole thing.

So after reading and reading I have decided to rebuild to replicate the real Muller Motor. I have found a site with an enormous amount of info as far as a spec scaled down version. With that being said I have already started!

I made the some of the cores tonight, I am using 1' magnets so the cores are 1" in also. They are made from magnite (fe304) and polyester resin , they are constructed in the manner that Peter Lindmann describes in another thread.

There will be 10 magnets and 9 coil pairs. The wire will be 16ga with 52 turns in the conical fashion.

Be sure that your magnetite cores cure with enough magnetism from the "shaping" magnets. Peter Lindemann said that your magnets must be as large as the resin casting that you are trying to make or you will yield very POOR results.

Although I am not (yet) currently experimenting with this RomeroUK replication, I have recently made a magnetite casting for another experiment. It was a VERY thick magnetite/resin mixture, but the shaping magnets that I used on the outside during curing were not big enough. I took a 2" diameter x .5" thick neodydium magnet and stuck it to one end of the casting to look at the permeability of my casting after curing. I was not able to see ANY magnetism on the opposite side of my core.

Make sure that you can see some type of cohered magnetism on the other end of the core.

Your neo magnet to resin casting ratio is bigger than mine was, but I am just forewarning about possible issues that may arise since they are not as big as the resin casting.

Good Luck

Dave

[kajunkreations]

Be sure that your magnetite cores cure with enough magnetism from the "shaping" magnets. Peter Lindemann said that your magnets must be as large as the resin casting that you are trying to make or you will yield very POOR results.

Although I am not (yet) currently experimenting with this RomeroUK replication, I have recently made a magnetite casting for another experiment. It was a VERY thick magnetite/resin mixture, but the shaping magnets that I used on the outside during curing were not big enough. I took a 2" diameter x .5" thick neodydium magnet and stuck it to one end of the casting to look at the permeability of my casting after curing. I was not able to see ANY magnetism on the opposite side of my core.

Make sure that you can see some type of cohered magnetism on the other end of the core.

Your neo magnet to resin casting ratio is bigger than mine was, but I am just forewarning about possible issues that may arise since they are not as big as the resin casting.

Good Luck

Dave

The core is 1" and the shaping magnets are 1" also

[Web000x]

The core is 1" and the shaping magnets are 1" also

My apologies,

The photos are rather deceiving to me.

[kajunkreations]

My apologies,

The photos are rather deceiving to me.

no apologies needed sir!

[qvision]

@ mariuscivic, thanks for sharing. Lots of people seem to agree (at the moment !) that the effect is caused like this : (quote from twinbeard)

"... the thane heins effect essentially works out like this... you have a rotor going at high frequency, with a high impedance generator coil. parasitic capacitance make an electrostatic field of high voltage on the surface of the wire, but there is a minute phase delay in current (and hence, counter emf) in the actual wire of the coil, as the electostatic charge decays. this gives the rotor a chance to move out of the way before lenz can slow him down, and in certain cases, the phase shift will actually accelerate the rotor."

@ Rod, this is a post Peter Lindemann made regarding casting magnetite cores :

"This method was developed by the late Bill Muller for his motors. Make a frame or

mold of the exact size of magnetite core you wish to cast, and line it with a

material that will allow you to get the core out after it sets up. Make sure the end

plates are made of .125 inch plastic sheet. Mix your magnetite with a slow curing,

high temperature resin. Mix as much magnetite into the resin as possible while it is

still malleable. Fill the mold and place the end plates on each end, and then place a

strong, NEO magnet on EACH SIDE of the mold. The NEO magnets should be at least as

large as the magnetite core you are making, and should face each other in the

attraction mode, so that all of the particles of magnetite line up, and TOUCH EACH

OTHER as the resin sets. This also aligns the magnetic domains in the iron so they

are all parallel in the finished core.

Any other method yields very poor results.

When the resin is set (24 hours), the magnetite disc should be able to magnetize up

to at least 2500 Gauss and operate with a very narrow hysteresis curve. It will be a

complete "non-conductor" so "eddy-currents" will be very low.

Bill Muller used these cores in his motors as a cheap substitute for Metglas Cores.

They have many of the same high-speed switching characteristics, but their magnetic

permeability is much lower."


Hope this helps,

Gary.

[mariuscivic]

Small update video (just for fun)
strange behavior of the coil part 2 - YouTube

[Shadesz]

Side note

I'm thinking the speed (RPM) required for acceleration is related to the cores hysteresis loop. I have not yet made any conclusions as to the type of loop we want. Do we want a square loop, a flat loop, an open loop, a gradual slope, etc?

Collecting data would be great!

What we would need is a gauss measurement on your rotor magnets (can be obtained form the manufacture), the size of those magnets, how far those magnets are from the core, how far they are from the coil, how heavy the core weighs by itself, and exactly what the core is... IE, the link to actual product (that way we can look up the loop for each core).

If anyone has achieved acceleration and doesn't know what to do now, would you mind helping me out? This may help us control RPM, and help others repeat the acceleration effect.

[qvision]

@mariuscivic, thanks for another interesting video.

I have two questions :

1. What was your total Watts input ?

2. Did you say you cannot get the acceleration effect without the capacitor ?


Thanks,

QV.

[kajunkreations]

I havent seen this video posted in here yet.Dr. Peter Lindemann Speaks on Magnetite Core Material - YouTube