Fuelless Engine Disk Motor & SP500 Generator

[Jim Bromely]

Tesla,
Very interesting stuff. Sounds like you've done alot of reaearch in this area.
I see high voltage is the way to go, makes sense.
On the HP I figured about 1 from the torque test. I think I could get about 4hp or more if I put another coil on top, then double the voltage.
I had a thought yesterday on possible making a coil that would double the output power from the bemf. Lets say we want a 100 ohm coil for a motor. Instead of winding one coil, wind 2 coils at 200 ohms each and wire them in parallel, but shaped as one coil for the motor. The input power from the power supply would be the same, into 100 ohms, the magnetic field should be the same. The bemf from each coil would be twice the voltage, half the current, but in parallel. So the current would add together, to equal 1, and the voltage in parallel would be double from each coil but in parallel so not add together so equal 2. Compared to the coil wound at 100 ohms the bemf now has twice the return voltage because of twice the windings. What do you think? Is that a patented coil design in the making?? Haha. Let me know if you think that is worth testing.

[Jim Bromely]

Thanks Jim for the info, i have been trying to scratch together resources to build this motor for a wile. do you have any tips on finding the parts on a limited budget? also the wiring for collecting the back emf has me a little confused. any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

thx Wolf

Hello Wolf,
I got my magnets at magnets4less, and I think the wire also. I didnt really find any deals out there. I think this project may cost me about $700. I couldve saved money on some things but didnt. Like using plywood instead of poly for the frame. As far as capturing bemf, think diode.

[AlaskanWolfWarrior]

Hello Wolf,
I got my magnets at magnets4less, and I think the wire also. I didnt really find any deals out there. I think this project may cost me about $700. I couldve saved money on some things but didnt. Like using plywood instead of poly for the frame. As far as capturing bemf, think diode.

il check that site out, it sounds good i have heard of it before, do they have good prices? outch thats more than i have for this, im using used parts and making my own. thanks for the help, have you tried building the engine with 2 electro magnets on the shaft inside 8 stationary electro magnets? with spark plugs as high voltage switches? i would love to see how much power that would make.

[TeslaTech]

Tesla,
Very interesting stuff. Sounds like you've done alot of reaearch in this area.
I see high voltage is the way to go, makes sense.
On the HP I figured about 1 from the torque test. I think I could get about 4hp or more if I put another coil on top, then double the voltage.
I had a thought yesterday on possible making a coil that would double the output power from the bemf. Lets say we want a 100 ohm coil for a motor. Instead of winding one coil, wind 2 coils at 200 ohms each and wire them in parallel, but shaped as one coil for the motor. The input power from the power supply would be the same, into 100 ohms, the magnetic field should be the same. The bemf from each coil would be twice the voltage, half the current, but in parallel. So the current would add together, to equal 1, and the voltage in parallel would be double from each coil but in parallel so not add together so equal 2. Compared to the coil wound at 100 ohms the bemf now has twice the return voltage because of twice the windings. What do you think? Is that a patented coil design in the making?? Haha. Let me know if you think that is worth testing.

Jim,

no, that's not a patented coil design, hehe. Anyway it is rediculous to try to patenting a coil design..... The patent must be for the whole system instead.

the idea is interesting. But instead making two new coils i would try to make the second coil the same like the first one and then wired them up in series.


How many watts of input you need for the 1 hp ?
There was something mentioned like 1000V at 10mA?

Furthermore, i think that there is a limitation, if you go to high with the coil resistance,
you could have a weaker magnetic field. I don't have tested this yet. That's my theory only. The other thing is you need some electrons(current) left in the wire. This can be a balance act.

I've thinking about to make a coil but bifiliar wound and this two twisted strands wired them up in series. I've tried this method with my 10 Coiler but only with one spool(2KG), i have recognized a drop in the input amperage by the half. So you can make the same work with half the input, because the differrents in voltage between the windings is very high.
I've thinking about to make this high hp fuelless engine with normal coil like in the plans and then to try it with bifiliar wound coils.

By the way, what are you doing with the BEMF? Charging batterys? Maybe it could be possible to use batterys as buffer and loop the whole thing for having a selfrunner.

Could you post a pic from your hp engine?

Greetings

Tesla

[Jim Bromely]

Jim,

no, that's not a patented coil design, hehe. Anyway it is rediculous to try to patenting a coil design..... The patent must be for the whole system instead.

the idea is interesting. But instead making two new coils i would try to make the second coil the same like the first one and then wired them up in series.


How many watts of input you need for the 1 hp ?
There was something mentioned like 1000V at 10mA?

Furthermore, i think that there is a limitation, if you go to high with the coil resistance,
you could have a weaker magnetic field. I don't have tested this yet. That's my theory only. The other thing is you need some electrons(current) left in the wire. This can be a balance act.

I've thinking about to make a coil but bifiliar wound and this two twisted strands wired them up in series. I've tried this method with my 10 Coiler but only with one spool(2KG), i have recognized a drop in the input amperage by the half. So you can make the same work with half the input, because the differrents in voltage between the windings is very high.
I've thinking about to make this high hp fuelless engine with normal coil like in the plans and then to try it with bifiliar wound coils.

By the way, what are you doing with the BEMF? Charging batterys? Maybe it could be possible to use batterys as buffer and loop the whole thing for having a selfrunner.

Could you post a pic from your hp engine?

Greetings

Tesla

Tesla,
Its running about 150-200 watts full load. The Bemf is being used back into the motor to increase efficiency. I wont say how. There were a few ways to do it in the plans, I beleive one of them is the way you described it. And also there were some pics of them using 2 strand wire for winding a coil in their own experiments but they didnt say to do that in the plans. Sounds like you might have something there to increase efficiency. I put up some pics of the motor on page 1. Im working on the generator now. I got one coil done and half the magnets installed and just tested it at 41 volts no load. I have to get some more resistors to get a power test for the one coil. Want to match the output impedance of the coil with ceramic resistors for accurate power measurement. Looks like it will work very well. Ill put in the rest of the magnets this week and give it a full power test with resistors for load. Hopefully by this weekend I can load it down enough to see how much wattage is being produced compared to how much the motor increases wattage consumption from no load to full generator load.

[TeslaTech]

Tesla,
Its running about 150-200 watts full load. The Bemf is being used back into the motor to increase efficiency. I wont say how. There were a few ways to do it in the plans, I beleive one of them is the way you described it. And also there were some pics of them using 2 strand wire for winding a coil in their own experiments but they didnt say to do that in the plans. Sounds like you might have something there to increase efficiency. I put up some pics of the motor on page 1. Im working on the generator now. I got one coil done and half the magnets installed and just tested it at 41 volts no load. I have to get some more resistors to get a power test for the one coil. Want to match the output impedance of the coil with ceramic resistors for accurate power measurement. Looks like it will work very well. Ill put in the rest of the magnets this week and give it a full power test with resistors for load. Hopefully by this weekend I can load it down enough to see how much wattage is being produced compared to how much the motor increases wattage consumption from no load to full generator load.

Hi Jim,

do you have two different machines? One with the air-core, that you already postet and second one with an iron core(the motor with the high horse power).
I have wound around 1 Kilometer wire on a laminated iron core. It is only 0,5mm in dia not the thinner one that they have mentioned.
Together i have 2 Kilogramms of wire on the core.
Now i will build a hv power supply and will try it with 1000 Volts. i have no rotor finished this is just one coil. i will try to put a magnet on the top an look how high this goes.

When does you bought the plans? I think they're updated some stuff in the newer plans. I have bought my plans in 2006.

Greetings

Teslaelectromagnet-teslatech.jpg

[Jim Bromely]

Hello Tesla,
Thats a nice looking coil you made. No I have the one air coil motor. I think the other one you refer to was one I mentioned I saw online and had the specs for it. I bought the plans I think last November.
I think your coil will lift that magnet very high with 1000v. I wonder how much Bemf you will get with the iron core compared to air core.

[kenny_PPM]

Jim,

Furthermore, i think that there is a limitation, if you go to high with the coil resistance,
you could have a weaker magnetic field. I don't have tested this yet. That's my theory only. Tesla

You will find this is NOT the case , the more turns the stronger the magnetic field. That is why Newman used so many turns. The higher resistance the less current. This is one of the hidden ways this technology works. The more the better but you have to work with the higher voltages to get the the massive torque. Test it yourself with a magnetometer or two coils and you will see the torque.

Be safe at the higher voltages, it can kill or give you a really bad day if you dont respect. That is also why solid state versions dont work well with this technology. Bedini uses lower voltages as to not fry transistors. If you can make a commutator you can really ramp up the voltages and the back emf collection and use a high powered magnet to 'quench' any sparks at the commutator, no solid state to fry, but the commutator needs precision for timing, get a oscilloscope to tune signals.

Also, of extreme imortance, make sure you have hi-volatge diodes in place between your power supply and your coils, if you dont the bemf can blow up your capacitors in your power supply.

Ken


consider this: the torque of opposing magnetic fields drops by a factor of 4 if you double the distance, likewise if you move them closer together by half you get 4x the strength from the source (middle of electromagnet) . you could dramatically increase the force of your motor.
Tolerance is another key in motor/generator efficiency.

[Bhargav]

Brilliant Post

@Ken,
Thanks , One of the best summaries i have seen in some time . Having worked on pulse motors for 6 months , i can see you have put so many learnings in your last post( i had to spend quite a bit of money to learn them ) .

Invaluable tips these :
1) More the turns in coil , stronger the field.
2)More the turns in coil , higher the resistance of coil.
3)Higher the resistance , lower is the current consumed.
4)Bedini uses low voltage not to fry the transistors on window motor.Apparently Rick has tried going to about 150 Volts using different transistors. By my experience as well: Higher the input voltage used , torque increases almost exponentially. Higher voltage and low current consumption seems to be the key to figure out high torque motors. Also at the free energy conference held last november , the pulsed motor displayed had a lot of turns of about #24 wire (not sure) with about 20 or so wires in parallel . The key it seemed again was the large number of turns.

Questions to Ken and anybody else interested:

1)Creative science again suggests usage of high voltage and capturing BEMF through the well known commutator arc method as can be seen in their video.I would maybe ask Peter Lindeman if he thinks the commutator arc method really is able to harness the radiant leading to higher output voltage than input.Next question would be do carbon brush commutator behave the same as copper arc commutator.

2) How do we use high powered magnets to quench the arc at commutator . Isnt the arc that is supposed to provide the high back emf when stored in a capacitor ?

3)What is the point of placing high voltage diodes in between power supply and coils to stop BEMF? Again , arent we trying to capture all the BEMF possible than simply wasting it ?

4) Bedini's pulsed Window motor doesnt seem to stress too much on the gap between coils and magnet . I will do some experiments to see if i can measure the difference but just wanted to know your thoughts . Do you think the gap does play a factor in window motor design ?

I hope to understand more about the pulsed motors with this discussion and iam sure we can use the principles of different designs to our advantage.

Have fun,
Bhargav

[kenny_PPM]

@Ken,

1)Creative science again suggests usage of high voltage and capturing BEMF through the well known commutator arc method as can be seen in their video.I would maybe ask Peter Lindeman if he thinks the commutator arc method really is able to harness the radiant leading to higher output voltage than input.Next question would be do carbon brush commutator behave the same as copper arc commutator.

2) How do we use high powered magnets to quench the arc at commutator . Isnt the arc that is supposed to provide the high back emf when stored in a capacitor ?

3)What is the point of placing high voltage diodes in between power supply and coils to stop BEMF? Again , arent we trying to capture all the BEMF possible than simply wasting it ?

4) Bedini's pulsed Window motor doesnt seem to stress too much on the gap between coils and magnet . I will do some experiments to see if i can measure the difference but just wanted to know your thoughts . Do you think the gap does play a factor in window motor design ?

Keep testing, much learning comes from simple tests.

1. Yes it does, you can test it and see with a commutator and capacitor. Carbon would last longer than copper for brushes. Same as typical motors.

2. Magnet will keep high voltage commutator from arcing and dirtying up thru use, you can test without also. There are some who design motors with a spark gap on purpose so the hi voltage arc collects more from the environment, that is a whole other discussion beyond this design. Adams motor used it I belie
3. Think of it this way, you are stopping the Flyback Voltage from going in one direction and collecting it going in a different path. The Flyback Voltage is what you want to capture in a battery or capacitor and dump to a load that is not a common ground, that is not part of the closed circuit. At least not connected to the closed circuit during the recovery pulse. If you didnt capture the Flyback Voltage this way, it would take a different path (the closed circuit path still connected to the power supply), and without a hi-voltage blocking diode in between your power supply then that path it would take would be to your power supply and overload all the specs on the components due to the spike being 10x higher than source voltage and then said voltage would overload and breakdown the rated voltage of the dielectric capacitors and boom. That is the main reason for the commutator, to pulse on AND when off to collect Flyback Voltage out of phase from the source or drive pulse. Hence a open circuit condition. That is why precision timing is critical. Scopes better for this reason.

4. Bedini's smaller motors are a different concept. Bedini does NOT rely on torque at the shaft as much as he wants to get a pulse through his circuit first to tune a signal to a recovery.
The high voltage high wound coil is just the opposite, you want as much torque as possible (very high voltage at very low current) at the shaft with collecting recovery pulses secondary. Hence gap is critical with this different designed motor. If you pulse two hi wound coils or solenoids with very hi voltage, the force generated is phonomenal. Air coils better for this reason.

Good luck with your experiments

[Sinatra Fan]

Jim

How close are you on the generator? I can't wait to see the progress.

[cjw3579]

Has anyone looked at the Magniwork generator plans or have any experience with them? Can rare earth magnets be used instead of ferrite ones?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi cjw3579, From the pictures I've seen, on the rotating generator device, he uses long stacks of neo magnets off the back of the pulse motor/generator coil.

Some kind of ping pong oscillation effect is supposed to account for the higher frequency output in the coil.
peace love light
tyson

[Jim Bromely]

SP500 Generator

How close are you on the generator? I can't wait to see the progress.

Hello Sinatra. I just got the 2nd of 8 coils in and did some testing. With the motor running at 600v the maximum efficiency im getting is 39.8%. With 2 coils in series it will light up a 40w light bulb at 105 volts. Im thinking now the way to go over unity is to configure the generator to run at low rpms with high output. That can be done with more coils and magnets if necessary. Ill have to make the generator as a seperate unit and connect the motor to it with pulleys and a belt. That way I can increase the torque on the generator by 3x and get close to 120% output. If the motor is running best at 600 rpm it will turn the generator at 200 rpm with 3 times the torque. Then I can connect more and more light bulbs to the output to see if I get 3 times the power. Looks like torque is the name of the game. So I have some building to do. Should be fun.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi jim, yes I think torque is the thing to optimize.
On my dual neo magnet rotor sandwiching air core coils pulse motor, I found that as I added each additional air coil in series while raising the input voltage to maintain the same rpm under shaft load while maintaining the same input watts.
I found the torque to increase with each added coil in series.
What this seems to say to me, is that if one was to keep adding coils in series with more neo magnet rotors and increasing the voltage to maintain the same rpm, that the motor should continue to increase in shaft torque for the same input watts.
With my dual air coil pulse motor using 6 sandwiched air coils at 72 volts, it was very difficult to stop the shaft with my hand, for something like 20 watts input.

Though when only using say one coil to start with, a child could stop the motor with their hand for the same input watts.
I think at some point, that with enough rotors and coils that it could exceed 100% production efficiency or COP>1.0.
Joseph Newman is correct on many things. Keep adding copper and raising voltage yields increasing shaft torque and input current steadily decreases, yet while using the same input watts, we progressively yield larger and larger levels of shaft torque. This graph from Newmans book says it all.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
peace love light
tyson