Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[Ufopolitics]

....
At 2) and 3) a rapid current variation can be working at the same time as "the consecutively" or "the more and more" electromagnets is to be conneted step by step in a slower rate. And here the discussion of " make before brake " maybe comes in. It can maybe be important that the next coil is connected previous the disconnection of the first in a situation of Vandering Magnetic Fields?

....

Regards / Arne

Definitively, the way that Figuera does that "make before break" is by having Brush contact TWO ELEMENTS in Commutator...

This allows the "simulation" of MOVING FIELDS to be OVERLAPPED (Applied to the Rotary Pattern in the Patent you showed before, NOT in Figuera, since it is LINEAR)

HOWEVER, when Two Coils are energized at the same time, even for a millisecond, the Current I, suffers a "fluctuation" AFFECTING the COMMON MOVING FIELD PROJECTION (generated by a SINGLE COIL)...which in my understanding is NOT GOOD for Induction purposes.

It works though...but not the way we all wished to...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[T-1000]

Definitively, the way that Figuera does that "make before break" is by having Brush contact TWO ELEMENTS in Commutator...

As it is cross-referencing what is currently discussed in OU forum - the magnetic field is always ON in regards to pickup coils. You cannot switch on/off moving physical magnet without disrupting induction. Think about how alternator works and what we are doing to make induction there. The electromagnet is passing by pickup coils and we must to do same when making magnetic field move by switching over group of inductor coils. The physical movement of magnetic field in 3D space and not rotation on coil axis is what make alternators work.
Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

Cheers!

[Elcheapo]

new stuff

Hi all:

Haven't posted here for a long time, but the concept of this device is just so simple that I just had to come back for one more shot at it.

If we'd just bother to think about how lawyers write up patents for inventors we should realize that they put in clauses of false information to confuse and discourage the building of these things by would-be replicators.
Well guess what? It worked! Everybody is gone.
Hopefully I can try to get some to return again.


Maybe we just have to get into a new way of thinking.

One of the things that bothers me is "why the hell does so many
people insist on using n-n or s-s poles for the 2 coils"?
when the description clearly says to use "two poles of the opposite sign".
The large letters N and S clearly says it also.
Description also says:
"we think that this core must be formed or constituted by a group of real
electromagnets, properly built to develop the highest possible ATTRACTIVE force."
Well a n-n or s-s sure as hell is NOT an attractive force.
If that's not enough proof, then just look at the operation of a regular generator.
Is the induced coil placed between n-n poles? Of course not!
An n-n field just splatters the B field off to the sides and wastes a lot of flux.
We need a N-S field that CONCENTRATES the flux right in the middle where the "y" coil is placed.

This device is supposed to simulate the working of a regular generator but without the need for moving parts.
As the induced coil turns, one side gets induced with a positive voltage from the north pole and other side gets induced with a negative voltage from the south pole.
C.F. says to get the same effect, just place the induced coil in the middle of a strongly changing magnetic field. Can't get much simpler, can it?
So what do you think is in that patent that is screwing us all up?
I'll tell you what I think in my next post.


Elcheapo

[boguslaw]

I would point to many places like "properly placed"
or "As seen in the drawing the current, once that has made its function, returns
to the generator where taken; "

In interview Figuera said about vibrations of ether and so on.
Columbus Egg :-)

As for commutators it's quite simple , you have to connect two brushes with a think copper bar , being a couple and then a couple of them makes set and finally you got what Benitez used

[Elcheapo]

Hi boguslaw;

Ya, it could be any one of those things.

Well I was getting the proper 16 step pulse wave with the pulses varying
between 2 amps and 8 amps so that total current always remained at 10 amps. I got zero output.
I tried placing the induced coil perpendicular and every which way possible
but still no output. I even tried 2 coils in series.

I think this thing needs a very strongly changing magnetic field in order to work, which you won't get with that step wave.

So my answer is this "when one pole is increasing the other is decreasing by the same amount" is a bogus statement.

[boguslaw]

Hi boguslaw;

Ya, it could be any one of those things.

Well I was getting the proper 16 step pulse wave with the pulses varying
between 2 amps and 8 amps so that total current always remained at 10 amps. I got zero output.
I tried placing the induced coil perpendicular and every which way possible
but still no output. I even tried 2 coils in series.

I think this thing needs a very strongly changing magnetic field in order to work, which you won't get with that step wave.

So my answer is this "when one pole is increasing the other is decreasing by the same amount" is a bogus statement.

Do you know where is the problem ? I KNOW.

It is in the fact , that Figuera generators are not properly investigated by scientific teams having access to all costly tools ,labs and financing.
It can be replicated in just a few months. First the 1902 device , because I believe the device from year 1908 is the same but the movement of output coil on light drum-like rotor was eliminated by a proper switching of coils simulating the movement of magnetic fields.

[Ufopolitics]

Hi boguslaw;

Ya, it could be any one of those things.

Well I was getting the proper 16 step pulse wave with the pulses varying
between 2 amps and 8 amps so that total current always remained at 10 amps. I got zero output.
I tried placing the induced coil perpendicular and every which way possible
but still no output. I even tried 2 coils in series.

I think this thing needs a very strongly changing magnetic field in order to work, which you won't get with that step wave.

So my answer is this "when one pole is increasing the other is decreasing by the same amount" is a bogus statement.

Hello Elcheapo,

I believe we have this same conversation (about same issue) a while back...
Again, am sorry to read your zero output results.
Sorry but I can not say I hadthe same results...I have plenty of output when I was using the 16 elements driver commutator.

I have a simple question for you (which I believe I know the answer)...
You wrote You have 10 amps total...8 hi and 2 low...but what's the voltage?
if am not wrong, your answer would be 12V...but again I may be wrong.

The BEST Output I ever had with this setup was using MUCH HIGHER V and lower amperage, and I have shared this results here.

For example I have used 50V and up to 60V and like 2.5 to 3 amps max, while the low was at 1.0 amp.

For some reason this combinations worked out for me pretty well.

The problems I had with this setup was that at higher RPM'S while loading output, the primaries or inductors would "ramp down" basically amperage...so output will also drop-down.

Will love to read you re tested at higher voltage while lowering amps...and then it works

Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[Elcheapo]

Do you know where is the problem ? I KNOW.

It is in the fact , that Figuera generators are not properly investigated by scientific teams having access to all costly tools ,labs and financing.
It can be replicated in just a few months. First the 1902 device , because I believe the device from year 1908 is the same but the movement of output coil on light drum-like rotor was eliminated by a proper switching of coils simulating the movement of magnetic fields.

So you're saying it's gonna take lots of money and expensive equipment
to build one of these?
Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

Just remember that CF said "the only extraordinary point about it is that it has taken so long to discover a simple fact".
We also have far better parts and equipment than CF ever had access to.
Just my opinion.

[boguslaw]

So you're saying it's gonna take lots of money and expensive equipment
to build one of these?
Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

Just remember that CF said "the only extraordinary point about it is that it has taken so long to discover a simple fact".
We also have far better parts and equipment than CF ever had access to.
Just my opinion.

Can you build generator armature according to the computed required intensity of magnetic field and special arrangement ?

[Elcheapo]

Hello Elcheapo,

I believe we have this same conversation (about same issue) a while back...
Again, am sorry to read your zero output results.
Sorry but I can not say I hadthe same results...I have plenty of output when I was using the 16 elements driver commutator.

I have a simple question for you (which I believe I know the answer)...
You wrote You have 10 amps total...8 hi and 2 low...but what's the voltage?
if am not wrong, your answer would be 12V...but again I may be wrong.

The BEST Output I ever had with this setup was using MUCH HIGHER V and lower amperage, and I have shared this results here.

For example I have used 50V and up to 60V and like 2.5 to 3 amps max, while the low was at 1.0 amp.

For some reason this combinations worked out for me pretty well.

The problems I had with this setup was that at higher RPM'S while loading output, the primaries or inductors would "ramp down" basically amperage...so output will also drop-down.

Will love to read you re tested at higher voltage while lowering amps...and then it works

Regards to all


Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

Good to see you getting some good output. But what is your input?

Any OU yet?

Go a few posts back and you'll see why I won't be using that 16 pulse step wave any more.

I'll be using a much simpler system by pulsing the 2 coils in unison with a
half-wave rectifier that puts out only a positive voltage of 1 to 10 volts using only one mosfet.
And of course the 2 coils will be set to N-S to give me a much stronger magnetic field.
My 2 coils being wound with #19awg will only handle about 8 amps so for now the 12volts will be adequate.
I just bought some #22 wire to use if I want a stronger field by winding
more turns. Then a higher voltage will be required to get the required amp-turns.

Regards
Elcheapo

[Elcheapo]

Can you build generator armature according to the computed required intensity of magnetic field and special arrangement ?

Sorry to tell you but there were NO computers back in 1908.

As for any required intensity, I can get whatever I want by using N-S fields and increasing amp-turns.

[Dwane]

Clemente too complicated?

Hi Guys,
I too have had Clemente on my mind. I have taken a break from Don Smith for the moment as working with Very high voltages is quite demanding.

I have not finished reading the whole thread! But, I think the first 20 pages or so contain that which we might like to concentrate upon for success. I admire Ufopolitics and his ability to construct a generator. But a Generator requires an external drive mechanism such as a motor Or, in the Canary Islands a Donkey with a carrot ahead as if it is walking about a stone mill, so to speak. Things are becoming complicated. Recall, Clemente is not an engineer. Likely, during his days in the forests he had time to read the writings of the day; such as Faraday, Tesla etc.

To my mind, the static driven generator superbly fits into the category of simplicity as stated by Clemente. Here in 1900, where technology is at its minimum. For Clemente, he would look for a solution to manifest his insight
in the most agreable method possible. I have not read the whole thread, but might conclude, at the present time, that there has been limited work done on the stationary generator. I am often wrong!

There are several keys that to me are prime configuration details. First is the "soft iron". Expensive to buy and in limited ingot sizes. Minimum production runs for core parts often start off in the 100kg range. To offset this immediate concern one might look for mild steel 1020 or lower. Depending on which country you are in 1020 would be the most likely option. In the USA, UK and EU, other option are available. Next, one need to get up close to someone such as a Potter. A crafts-person. Prepare the shapes required for the solenoids and have them "decarbonised" in a kiln at the phase change from 750C to 1050C. This should reduce the carbon content to the soft iron level .005% content. I believe, a main key to the success of the Clemente device is the higher permeability of the soft iron and is almost zero remanence.

The next observation are the resistors. Sure, resistors will give the appropriate reduction in voltage variation in flow as the cycle progresses. But, shown are coils. I am thinking that there is a two fold operation to the rotary switch. First is the obvious switch between solenoids. To my mind there is a second. The rotary switch is a sequentially adjustable inductor. That is, as the contact rotates we get a change in balance across the solenoids. At anyone time, the total inductance is uniform. This would correlate with Clemente's comments on Faraday and the changing magnetic fields.

I also think that when Clemente suggests using thing to hand, to construct his generator, that is exactly what happened! He had a battery, some wire, and some soft iron. Soft iron being readily available in the early 1900's.

There is one other notion in my mind which is, resonance. If Clemente's generator resonated, this would indeed explain the large amounts of energy supplied. As he used this device in his own home, and I see no reports of any commercial units, then I am thinking, what actual frequency was this generator running at? Implied, is, I suppose, the notion of a transmission line frequency such as 50 of 60 Hz. To achieve this standard would require a certain manufacturing dedication. So, I might conclude, that the frequency of the Clemente device is arbitary.

I will leave it there. I am sure that these obsevations have been covered, if so, please ignore. I shall know better when I have read the total 90 pages.

Have a good day and regards to you all

Dwane

[boguslaw]

Ok, guys

This is essential part , device I believe Figuera made first after some experiments :

"In summary: in the machine that it is requested to have a privilege, the excitatory magnets are constructed as those in the current machines, and in the number, size and desired arrangement. The core consists of a group of as many electromagnets as those of the excitatory side, and the wires in the excitatory electromagnets and core electromagnets disposed in series or parallel or as required for the excitatory current, whose aim is to convert them in powerful magnets* and to create the magnetic fields which are formed between the poles of each excitatory electromagnet and its corresponding electromagnet in the core. Both, exciter electromagnets as those in the core, which are also exciters, are terminated by expansions of iron or steel, placing face to face these expansions and disposing them in such a way that in front of a pole of a name there is placed a pole of opposite name. The core is composed of motionless electromagnets around shaft, and nor those magnets neither the exciter ones rotate. The induced circuit formed by wires coiled in a drum type configuration rotates around its axis, inside the magnetic fields, accompanied by a collector and a pulley, so that any motor may put them into movement. "

So he made a drum with output coils and rewound normal generator after wiped off some armature and rotor iron sheets. And the 30375 patent is the key patent.

*Marked is something very important....yes, ampere-turns, sadly it's not enough

[Dwane]

Ok, guys

This is essential part , device I believe Figuera made first after some experiments :

"In summary: in the machine that it is requested to have a privilege, the excitatory magnets are constructed as those in the current machines, and in the number, size and desired arrangement. The core consists of a group of as many electromagnets as those of the excitatory side, and the wires in the excitatory electromagnets and core electromagnets disposed in series or parallel or as required for the excitatory current, whose aim is to convert them in powerful magnets* and to create the magnetic fields which are formed between the poles of each excitatory electromagnet and its corresponding electromagnet in the core. Both, exciter electromagnets as those in the core, which are also exciters, are terminated by expansions of iron or steel, placing face to face these expansions and disposing them in such a way that in front of a pole of a name there is placed a pole of opposite name. The core is composed of motionless electromagnets around shaft, and nor those magnets neither the exciter ones rotate. The induced circuit formed by wires coiled in a drum type configuration rotates around its axis, inside the magnetic fields, accompanied by a collector and a pulley, so that any motor may put them into movement. "

So he made a drum with output coils and rewound normal generator after wiped off some armature and rotor iron sheets. And the 30375 patent is the key patent.

*Marked is something very important....yes, ampere-turns, sadly it's not enough

Hi Boguslaw,
I have found the Figuera descriptions difficult to interpret. Ambiguity, and ambiguity of translation. Rarely are translations a perfect fit. Local dialect or conversation quirks fail to be understood. I have no doubt that there is something significant going on. There have been some remarkable insights and deviations in the discussion I have so far read.

There are two options: 1) Assume a simplistic approach; 2) assume an overtly complicated approach. I am thinking that Clemente was a clever person. There would have been limited knowledge on the day as to Tesla's unique understanding of his theoretical concepts. From what I see, and I do not know that there are any deceptions' included within the patents', it will become is a process developed through trial and error based on the principles of the day that were understood: and which are still valid. Magnetic flux transfer. I have seen the "drum" before it has been mentioned by yourself. The drum is the transfer of the inductance through the circuit. It is the moderator.

Clemente, to my mind conceived his original design to eliminate the need for an electric motor. Here was someone, living with nature, and isolation of the Forest. What better than to produce a stationary generator. However! I have not seen a full replication yet. So either people only talk or replications have failed for one reason or another. My knowledge of inductance and magnetic fluxes are no where as detailed as some of the contributions on this thread. Until I build one of these, and experiment, I shall never know.

I possess a small kiln capable of 1100C. All I can get here is mild steel rod 1020 grade. So I have to retrieve the kiln from a difficult storage position and leach some iron and wind some test coils to see what the return on my fluxing is giving me. However, From my recent incursion into Don Smith, from which I am taking a breather, I bet that there are some similarities. One of which is resonance. I have a theory on that, mentioned in my previous post, which I feel requires modulating the inductance about the configuration of the solenoids. Solenoids being a reference to the Figuera patent. there are also three good youtube videos' by "Woopy" which gives some insight into this devise, with some good scope shots to assist with getting on track.

Regards

Dwane

[Elcheapo]

Hi Ufo,

I just realized the mistake I made when I told you I'll be pulsing with a half-wave rectifier. There'll only be one up and one down variation doing it this way.
So I guess I'll go back to my original 16 pulse circuit and just change the 8 pulses to the both coils to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 amps then reverse.