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  • Split Coils

    Originally posted by GChilders View Post
    @ufoPolitics
    I believe that a simpler geometry might be tried, such as the 3 pole where as each pole is powered there is opposition from both poles interacting with the same poles. I am not sure how much influence the structure of the rotor has on the magnetic field. I am sure that there is influence but you are right in that the nature of the change may be a little unpredictable. Have you tried winding the ten pole with a single coil instead of a split coil for each pole?? Just an idea that mimicks the simplicity of the 3 pole.

    Cheers,

    Garry
    @Garry

    You are right, we should study further simple Geometries ...

    The purpose of the Split Coils is to widen the Interaction, meaning, creating Two Bisectors one per coil, in order to use one against South and the other to North of the Stators, based on Dual actions...repulse-attract...then we get a more robust throw out force by using just one coil input.

    I have wound a 12 pole as a Three Pole (12/3=4 Pole per coil)...too crazy of a machine...tons of power, weird effects...but I used 18 awg though...

    Regards


    Ufopolitics
    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

    Comment


    • post only now but been in the fences all this time

      I have been following the posts here silently in the sidelines. I have been winding 3 & 5 pole motors; mostly work on the 5 poles because the 3 pole motor is so small. I have successfully wound a couple of 5 pole which pictures I will upload shortly. I have worked on these I call screamer because it spins like it's ready to explode with only 12V. I feel I am ready to move to the next level. So, I ordered my first UFO Kit and wires. I just received them and I am ready to start winding. However, I do not know yet if I want to wind it using the P-# method or use the latest way that Mr. UFO just disclosed here. The reason was I went back and rewound one of my 5 pole twice; 1st winding it CW but when I ran the motor, it was producing a lot of heat. Then I disassembled and rewound, this time, CCW and ran it. It too was heating up. Perhaps, someone can clarify for slow learners, like me, how this new method is done. I appreciate very much the knowledge that has been shared here, especially and foremost to Mr. Ufopolitics. By the way, I am new to winding motors but always a fascination on building my own. Again, thank you very much to the team members who contributed to this excellent forum with Mr. Ufopolitics at the helm.
      Last edited by interestedngreen; 03-29-2014, 02:48 AM. Reason: correction

      Comment


      • Originally posted by interestedngreen View Post
        I have been following the posts here silently in the sidelines. I have been winding 3 & 5 pole motors; mostly work on the 5 poles because the 3 pole motor is so small. I have successfully wound a couple of 5 pole which pictures I will upload shortly. I have worked on these I call screamer because it spins like it's ready to explode with only 12V. I feel I am ready to move to the next level. So, I ordered my first UFO Kit and wires. I just received them and I am ready to start winding. However, I do not know yet if I want to wind it using the P-# method or use the latest way that Mr. UFO just disclosed here. The reason was I went back and rewound one of my 5 pole twice; 1st winding it CW but when I ran the motor, it was producing a lot of heat. Then I disassembled and rewound, this time, CCW and ran it. It too was heating up. Perhaps, someone can clarify for slow learners, like me, how this new method is done. I appreciate very much the knowledge that has been shared here, especially and foremost to Mr. Ufopolitics. By the way, I am new to winding motors but always a fascination on building my own. Again, thank you very much to the team members who contributed to this excellent forum with Mr. Ufopolitics at the helm.
        Hello Interestedngreen

        I've been reviewing the beginning pages, 10-50. The 3 & 5 pole are to get you familiar with winding asymmetrically. The brushes are cheap and may need time to "seat", low speed bearings, poor alignment and using overvoltage, causes a lot of heat. UFO had also mentioned that those motors should be pulsed.

        Please tell us the wire gauge and how many winds per coil? That way, the people that have winded the 5 pole can give you solid advice.

        The new wind geometry for the Imperial is for me.

        Let's wait and review the test vids that UFO is making for the 10 pole. Maybe it can give us some hints for the Imperial

        Keep it Clean and Green
        Midaz

        Comment


        • thanks for the reply.

          Hello Midaz,

          Thank you very much for your reply. The particular motor I rewound to try the latest winding method Mr. Ufopolitics explained is a printer motor. I used the same wire that was in it when I rewound it and I believe it is a 26 ga. Each half of the coil is 30 turns. I guess, my wondering resulted from the fact that when I wound it using the P-# method and ran, it ran really fast but no heat despite running it for as much as 45 minutes at one time. And I did not get the same result as when I rewound it with just either CCW or CW only. Probably, I will run it with bearings on the shaft and see if that reduces the heat. Also, I've been trying to upload the pictures of my modified motors but that is a work in progress. I can not get the pictures out of my cell phone. Thanks again.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by interestedngreen View Post
            Hello Midaz,

            Thank you very much for your reply. The particular motor I rewound to try the latest winding method Mr. Ufopolitics explained is a printer motor. I used the same wire that was in it when I rewound it and I believe it is a 26 ga. Each half of the coil is 30 turns. I guess, my wondering resulted from the fact that when I wound it using the P-# method and ran, it ran really fast but no heat despite running it for as much as 45 minutes at one time. And I did not get the same result as when I rewound it with just either CCW or CW only. Probably, I will run it with bearings on the shaft and see if that reduces the heat. Also, I've been trying to upload the pictures of my modified motors but that is a work in progress. I can not get the pictures out of my cell phone. Thanks again.
            Interestedngreen

            When running all ccw or cw, where was your source(s) of heat? Did the motor sound like it was running smoother? Was the rpm a slight or major decrease?

            Remember, UFO used the same gauge wire and turns in the all cw windings as the original 5 pole winding.

            Using a smart phone to down load pics should be fairly easy. If not, try using photobucket to store your pics for downloading.

            Keep it Clean and Green
            Midaz
            Last edited by Midaztouch; 03-29-2014, 06:15 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by interestedngreen View Post
              I have been following the posts here silently in the sidelines. I have been winding 3 & 5 pole motors; mostly work on the 5 poles because the 3 pole motor is so small. I have successfully wound a couple of 5 pole which pictures I will upload shortly. I have worked on these I call screamer because it spins like it's ready to explode with only 12V. I feel I am ready to move to the next level. So, I ordered my first UFO Kit and wires. I just received them and I am ready to start winding. However, I do not know yet if I want to wind it using the P-# method or use the latest way that Mr. UFO just disclosed here. The reason was I went back and rewound one of my 5 pole twice; 1st winding it CW but when I ran the motor, it was producing a lot of heat. Then I disassembled and rewound, this time, CCW and ran it. It too was heating up. Perhaps, someone can clarify for slow learners, like me, how this new method is done. I appreciate very much the knowledge that has been shared here, especially and foremost to Mr. Ufopolitics. By the way, I am new to winding motors but always a fascination on building my own. Again, thank you very much to the team members who contributed to this excellent forum with Mr. Ufopolitics at the helm.
              G'day interestedngreen
              Welcome here its good to have others who are interested and really try to replicate what UFO has disclosed to us.

              I would hang off for a while before attempting to wind the Imperial as UFO has not as yet really determined how it should be wound and he is the expert on these things. He will later show us how to wind it and if you read or rather re read his latest info on the Imperial P56 he did say hold off until he does his own tests and he will later do some exact drawings showing us where to connect the windings to the brushes

              This is very important to understand if you take a look at my drawings that I posted a few days ago you can see that both drawings are the same motor and it is important to understand where the P1 (standing for the centre of Pair1) position is in relation to the brushes and the Stator magnets notice the centre lines for the stator magnets and the centre lines for P1 N and P1 S and also notice where the Brushes are in relationship with the commutator segments study these 2 drawings

              http://www.energeticforum.com/251392-post6261.html

              When you have done this please post me what the difference is between the 2 drawings

              when I first modified the small Tandy motor I really could see some action with it and as I tried all sorts of things I actually nearly blew the thing up and it does not run so well now the reason these little motors have been built to run at the speed they are designed for and they are only supposed to have a certain volts/current applied and we get so excited when we get these little motors going way past their expected specs I we treated our kids the same way they would throw us in jail and throw away the key.
              as far as the heating up goes I can not say perhaps after when you post me the difference between the two drawings we could discuss further.

              Kindest regards


              Kogs just trying to be helpful

              Comment


              • Reply to UFO about Baldor/ what about multifilar

                Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                Hey Sam,

                Well, look at it this way...it is a good thing you are still on this stage...and have NOT wound your BALDOR...

                Now, for sure we will make it roar...!!

                Was it a 20 or a 40 Poles?...I believe Comm is 40 elements...and it is a 20 right?


                Regards


                Ufopolitics

                Si! 40 elements on com, joining 2 ea. to make 20, One doubled comm segment per pole. I had prepared a quadfilar from my stock of 30ga, if memory serves me, and was planning approximately a 21-22ga winding.

                So multifilar still better than single wire coil, right UFO?

                I am trying to imagine what the CAD wiring dgm. would be for the 20pole bistator Baldor. As you point out on the new imperial winding, a coil subtends the number of poles needed to fit the magnet width. With just the the 2 stators, looks like about 8 poles on a coil for a 20 pole, something like that?

                Here is my progress on my comm dremmel-out wire problem. I just could not see how I could make those slots work since they did not seem to be able to be wired like a new imperial comm and the wires would stay in.

                The one on the right I am reusing the old wires, left is reinserting and stamping a Y-type brass connector, brazed together. I am using 14ga wire there. When fitted well into the slot and stamping, just barely enough copper left to make it so solid it feels welded. whew! I always am getting caught up on the material redesign of things.



                You can see how nice things look on the stamp job here. (Or should I say functional?)



                Baldor is real roomy on the comm-shaft distance, so not too worried about coil crossover buildup...

                Woohoo can't wait to get started on winding, Oh well back to taxes, car probs, new hip, etc.
                Last edited by sampojo; 03-29-2014, 03:07 PM.
                Up, Up and Away

                Comment


                • Baldor commutator

                  Hey Joe,

                  Looks like it will be really easy to try out multiple winds on your baldor once your commutators are complete. Just wind, crimp and connect. Looks great. Make sure you crimp them hard, wouldn't want them coming loose at 5,000 rpm

                  cheers

                  Garry

                  Comment


                  • Crimp? you gotta be kiddin'!

                    Originally posted by GChilders View Post
                    Hey Joe,

                    Looks like it will be really easy to try out multiple winds on your baldor once your commutators are complete. Just wind, crimp and connect. Looks great. Make sure you crimp them hard, wouldn't want them coming loose at 5,000 rpm

                    cheers

                    Garry
                    Me and crimping don't get along. Ufo says I need to find a pro crimping tool, no joy there yet. For now I plan to braze the connectors to the mulitifilar. No soldering allowed of course! Big question if the 30ga can take the heat. This I must test... If my current brand of brazing rod don't work, I will be on the hunt for some good old fashioned silver solder I can't seem to find too easy anymore... Small weld shops around here have gone outta business. I have tried mixing solder and brazing rod for some lower temp stuff but it seemed so brittle... totally counter intuitive...
                    Last edited by sampojo; 03-29-2014, 03:16 PM.
                    Up, Up and Away

                    Comment


                    • Please, let's NOT Complicate ourselves...

                      Hello to All,

                      ABOUT THE RADIO SHACK FIVE POLES

                      First I want to say that , yes, the Radio Shack Geometry under the new winding type made incredible performance, MUCH better than its previous winding and then some more.

                      Now, related to the way to make this new winding is NOT the same as previous, meaning, that just changing coils instead of being one CCW and the other CW, but Both CW would do it...NOPE it will NOT!

                      Please look at the way brushes are set on the new model, exactly opposite as previous, meaning, just like it comes from factory Symmetrical Model.

                      Second, notice that we are INTERLEAVING, or OVERLAPPING coils in this new wind, where CENTER POLE is COMMON to Both CW Coils.


                      ABOUT MY TEN POLES TEST ON ALL NORTH AT ROTOR

                      Sorry, but I am NOT going to "jump" and keep going over a "next" Model (The 10 Poles) without going over in DETAIL FIRST on the previous one (The Five Poles) that was SUCCESSFUL...


                      ABOUT IMPERIAL ALL NORTH

                      @Kogs, hold on, on Imperial winding !

                      It was my mistake mainly, to upload the Imperial All North Diagrams...I again "assumed" that this new winding could expand easily and simply by just changing Timing positioning and direction of wind...and after doing the TEN POLES I realize I was VERY WRONG!

                      This "Game" is like a Sport...if we believe we could start playing in the "Great Leagues" without even doing some warming up or starting by Junior Leagues acquiring experience...we are DEAD WRONG!!

                      We have to get to the bottom of this Effects and changes in greater performance in this the new type of winding FIRST in simple Geometries, or we could have wrong results if we RUSH to more clever/complicated structures...that will lead to major expenses and lot of wasted time...I DO NOT WANT THAT FOR YOU GUYS !

                      Therefore, We ALL need to stick around the Five Poles New Wind FIRST, until we could dissect it to know exactly why is running and performing better than previous.

                      Then using some common sense is simple...it doesn't work that EASY or we will hit a brick wall. So, it is no sense moving forward if we are not done analyzing DEEPLY our first winner.

                      Maybe this New Wind works only on ODD Number of Poles...just because Magnetic Fields need a GAP OPEN between 180

                      Maybe We will need to OVERLAP NORTH COILS in order to obtain this results...

                      Or we may have many "maybe's" but we are ONLY ASSUMING...And we will not know until we test different types, AFTER replicating this Five Poles FIRST.


                      MAKING AND TESTING THE FIVE POLES NEW DESIGN

                      If You already have built a Five Poles with previous winding and is running FINE...DON'T TAKE IT APART!...Leave it INTACT...as it will serve to COMPARE with new Model.

                      Buy a couple more...they are cheap to experiment with...only like $5.00 USD...

                      It is Important to HAVE TWO, an Old and a New Type to see the differences between them.

                      Now, the New type you are going to use EXACTLY the same Spec's as the Old one...meaning, same type of wire...same number of turns, that should display SAME Resistance per coil...and THIS IS IMPORTANT...if they have different Spec's Testing "Differences" is completely worthless.

                      The Ones I did, I used the Red wire from RS, which is 30 awg...as established on this Thread on the very beginning on the Five Poles

                      I used 25 Turns PER COIL, meaning 50 Turns TOTAL PER PAIR.

                      This should display a Resistance around 1.0 to 1.3 Ohms PER PAIR.

                      I will guide you all through this whole process.


                      @ Midaz: Imperial Motors could wait...just because we want to bring a Motor for them to test it...I am not going to deviate nor rush the course of this whole Thread my friend...HOWEVER, If anyone of You guys wants to do it...and send the Original Imperial wind type...please be my guest...I know it will do good, but NOT better than whatever we are developing here now...so Midaz will help you to do that...the same way Midas did it together with Dana before...Related to my Imperial, I am not sending it...simply because I will need it for future testings, plus, I will just be winding a whole Armature/Rotor ONLY with the new design, then using same already existing and assembled Housing from the Older Model...to do it faster.

                      @Cornboy: Friend, you are gonna have to wait also, till we figure out this new type in more complex structures...your MAG3 is an excellent machine as is, but it is VERY COMPLEX...and in order to obtain better results...first we must do Imperial...it is just by "Numerical Order Sequence" here my friend, and I hope you understand.

                      @essenergy and all those that wanted to buy my models before: I hope you guys realize/understand why...even being in the need for money...I did not wanted to sell my Models...now I need them...and it is easier to just take them apart and rewind them than starting from scratch, welding and building a whole new structure again...time is of the essence here...and this existing models are already there waiting to be "upgraded"...


                      Thanks to All of You for helping me on this Quest to develop newer and higher Technologies that will eventually become better and better every day...we are just at the beginning of all this..



                      Kind Regards to All



                      Ufopolitics
                      Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-30-2014, 12:28 PM.
                      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                      Comment


                      • What Are We After...seeking Here?

                        WHAT ARE WE AFTER...SEEKING HERE? BY DOING ALL THIS WORK?

                        OUR DREAM...

                        We are looking to Obtain the "Perfect Machines" here...the ones that will join/fuse wisely Motors and Generators of Power...to a point that after Motoring requirements are satisfied they could self exchange evenly their work and energy and still produce a great Power Output...

                        For this achievements to be possible we need to have:

                        1-Easier to adapt and run Generators...like a "One Part Machine" Type...or similar to the N-Machine Concepts...enhanced by steady Motor Magnetic Fields of the same polarity that could be rotating also around another rotating generator winding...

                        2-Very Low consumption Motors...while they develop incredible Speeds and Torque ALL IN ONE ASCENDING CURVE...Meaning BOTH Directly Proportional.
                        Plus using the Magnetic Fields from This Motors to become "usable" for the Generator "Enhancing/Exciting Fields"...even though they will be spinning also...but in such fashion, that they will display "Static" for Generator Inducing Windings...


                        Regards to All


                        Ufopolitics
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • You are doing fine My Friend...

                          Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                          Me and crimping don't get along. Ufo says I need to find a pro crimping tool, no joy there yet. For now I plan to braze the connectors to the mulitifilar. No soldering allowed of course! Big question if the 30ga can take the heat. This I must test... If my current brand of brazing rod don't work, I will be on the hunt for some good old fashioned silver solder I can't seem to find too easy anymore... Small weld shops around here have gone outta business. I have tried mixing solder and brazing rod for some lower temp stuff but it seemed so brittle... totally counter intuitive...
                          Hey Sam,

                          You have a Highly Potential Model there...a 20 Pole is exchangeable from a Five Pole to a 20 Pole...no matter if you have only Two Stators.

                          So, please, make it in order to be simple to take it apart and re-wind it a few times without "bending" twisting or forcing part of its structure so it could brake in every attempt to re make it.

                          The Multi-Filar is fine , but I do not think just Four Strands of 30 gauge will even move that monster Steel Core you have..

                          So you have "an idea" of what am talking about...My Bike Motor has like 12 strands of like 23 gauge to produce a 5000 Watts Motor...that have an incredible acceleration.

                          So, I would do FIRST windings with regular single wire, say 18 awg...or even 20 awg...and remember, resistance should go ABOVE one ohm per Pair.

                          But the main part of this post...is for you to develop a simple way to take apart machine...as also their windings, hook and unhook like you are using connectors...very wise!...so, no EPOXY Resin here so far!...and do not spend any money having them balanced yet...


                          Regards



                          Ufopolitics
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Re: About the Radio Shack Five Poles

                            Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                            Hello to All,

                            ABOUT THE RADIO SHACK FIVE POLES
                            .
                            .
                            .
                            .

                            Thanks to All of You for helping me on this Quest to develop newer and higher Technologies that will eventually become better and better every day...we are just at the beginning of all this..

                            Kind Regards to All

                            Ufopolitics
                            No, Thank you for your continued interest and willingness to share. Great to hear your enthusiasm behind your words still. I am getting psyched! (Even about downgrading my 20 poles to a big 5-pole motor, what the heck, easy rewind for next improvement. One giant RS motor!) You thought that would work well before even with the original asym windings... Hope I can step up things, as stepping is a delicate thing for me around here But I am not going to lie, I have been cheating on the motor. About ready to turn on my HHO-EWAI system on my car. That is injecting HHO and water-alcohol vapors into my car, and enslaving my car's computer, telling it is running at the top of pikes peak in a hot steamy jungle, trying to get 20-30% improvement in gas mileage.
                            Up, Up and Away

                            Comment


                            • crimping

                              Hey Joe,

                              It looks like a standard crimp connection with a red insulated section. So you are going to braze that connection. Well that sounds solid. Crimping is solid when done correctly but must be tested and not assumed to be tight. But overkill on any thing that spins is never a bad thing.

                              Cheers,

                              Garry

                              Comment


                              • overlapping windings

                                @ufoPolitics

                                ufo when I studied electric theory for automobiles many years ago we learned about the way ignition coils worked. It works as most every one here probably knows because of the relationship between the primary and secondary coil. The battery is connected to the primary coil and is charged when the contact points are closed and when the points are opened the magnetic field collapses and electricity is inducted into the secondary coil. This is similar to the way a transformer works except the transformer is connected to an alternating current and each time the field collapse electricity is inducted into the secondary coil. Of course the main purpose of the ignition coil is to increase the voltage so that the spark will jump the gap in the spark plug. And the purpose in the transformer is to increase voltage in some cases and decrease voltage in others. This is possible by varying the number of winds in the primary in relationship to the number of winds in the secondary coil.

                                I said all of that to ask this. Are we getting a benefit from overlapping the coils to which electricity is being inducted into the next coil or is it acting as a hindrance in some cases? I am always curious about causal effects on a system. Each time we add a complication it can have both negative and positive implications. I totally agree that the simple structures need to be carefully examined so we can understand the where and why of the beneficial results.

                                I love new discoveries. Especially when it comes to practical applications. I must say I don't understand radiant energy at all but am excited at the prospect that there is actually three types of energy available in these motors. Mechanical, electrical and now radiant; when we learn to harness this energy it will put us way over the top. I am experiencing problems with my set up when it comes to radiant energy but I have come to some conclusions about what it is not. It is not in the infrared because I have totally taped the enclosure of the infrared sensor and still gotten the same interference. It is not just radio interference. Even after wrapping and grounding the leads and putting the Arduino in the Metal box I am still getting some spurious results although less than when it is not wrapped etc.

                                I was intrigued with the utube video that Midaz posted with the asymmetrical motor powering the coil that lit the led and all of the leds that he was able to light from that coil with coils that were not connected to the main coil and were not even in close proximity to the main coil. Very interesting stuff indeed!! I know that Nikola lives on through these experiments and that his dream of free energy may soon be realized!!

                                Cheers

                                Garry

                                Comment

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