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  • Set back

    The rpm's kept getting better as that top brush started to get worked in.
    My alignment is off as well.
    I had 3 wires (ends) come loose ,fixed it , now a fourth is cut.
    The force is throwing the wires out.
    I had to modify the bottom com. ..I tied all the ends of the pairs together, so a common ground??
    All the starts of the pairs are wired to the top com. , so the rotation is by 1 pair firing after the next.
    I tried with every other com. section and it is , seems like it's just as strong? But using half the wire?
    Some repairs ,then more testing.
    artv
    Last edited by shylo; 04-11-2014, 09:04 PM.

    Comment


    • Still slow as molasses

      Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
      Geez Sam!

      You were taking all your sweet time making the Commutators and connectors...and all the sudden...you are all fired up??!!...

      That's good, it means we are in Sync...

      One thing...please, slow down just a bit, though...

      Yes You are right, Your Baldor will use 8 Poles for one Pair of Two North Coils...BUT...Hold On right there!...am working on this "scenario" right now...please, let me finish "moving pictures"...

      Hold on... or I will have no other choice but to bring you "The Negotiator" here...LOL

      Am working as I write here... on this perfected type of winding...and yes, it applies to Your set up...as well as the Imperial...as to any other out there...

      So, stick around


      Cheers


      Ufopolitics
      Don't let me fool you, number one priority now is mine and my daughter's taxes. Too stubborn to hire it out... then finishing the comm will take a number of hours, which I can never seem to rub together... But thats it, winding to follow, NP waiting for you

      PS only 2/3 done on my monster driver, let alone mastering the Arduino program there. only one more needed for a dual stator anyway, thats a good thing, and excuse me while I limp around on my bad hip, but I might have a temporary fix for that, so I can work a little harder here...
      Last edited by sampojo; 03-30-2014, 09:03 PM.
      Up, Up and Away

      Comment


      • Sargent UFO

        UFO is the Sargent of asymmetric motors!
        full metal jacket intro monologue - YouTube

        Alright pukes, get the winding!

        Keep it Clean and Green
        Midaz

        AKA "The Negotiator"

        Comment


        • Hey Sammy,molasses flows very quick when you heat it!

          Comment


          • fields of 2 coils do not equal the field of 1

            edit: the second half of this posting was heavily edited, after ufo in post #6416 explained, that in a 4-stator motor, the two opposing groups should not be fired simultaneously.

            hello Ufopolitics and all,
            Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
            That Three Pole [motor] has a "Y" Rotor...at 120 apart...we are firing North one end of the "Y" towards stators... but at that very moment of firing...don't you think that South Pole is traveling through core - passing [through} shaft - and ending on the Two opposed Rotor Poles?

            I believe so...
            I believe so too, and we have Tesla as a witness:
            Ufo's following illustration of a Tesla rotor neatly shows the fields created by a single central coil.

            It should be noted that N. Tesla intended, that such coils are wound onto the rotor CENTER.

            However, on our conventional factory made rotors, rotor coils do not sit in the center. Instead they are located in eccentric positions, as you can see in my attached schematic illustration, showing an 8-pole 2-stator motor with two firing coils (idle or generating coils not shown).
            In 2-stator motors the two rotor coils that are positioned opposite each other, are usually energized simultaneously.
            We are given to understand, that their fields will add up.

            But what does really happen, particularly in between the two coils, in the center of the rotor at the shaft?
            The fields of both coils are very strong at the center of the core, but they are of opposite polarity.

            Can the rear magnetic pole of each coil still pass through the shaft to the rear end of the rotor?
            No.
            Instead the opposing fields in the center of the rotor will cancel each other.

            Could the energy it took to create these fields be wasted energy ?

            After answering this question it is understandable, that it was advantageous that ufo - in his old winding style - positioned the halves of a coil pair NOT in DIAMETRICAL OPPOSITION. This winding style was already better than what we are sold in conventional motors.

            Note: as one can see in my second illustration, showing two simultaneously firing coil groups in a 4-stator motor, this situation should also be avoided , because the rear magnetic poles of a coil can again not pass through the core to the rear metal pole pieces.

            However, the new unipolar winding style is advantageous, if unipolar coil-groups are fired in overlapping sequence, so that the next coil(-group) in a multi-pole rotor is energized, before the previous one gets disconnected. In this way the field created by the rotor coils in the core, never collapses.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by marxist; 04-03-2014, 06:37 AM. Reason: new experiments

            Comment


            • Ahhh, Marxist, i do believe correctness prevails with your words. Thanks.

              120 Degrees, out of kilter, to 180 degrees, has a lot of potential.

              The Dilectics of nature, come to mind.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                That's great Garry!


                Wow, that Model with three magnets per stator sounds different!...please show Us later!

                On Your Radiant Interference...Try Carbon Fiber Sheets...if you have them in hard type with resins...if not, see if you could find just a piece of the Mat or Cloth Material...then cover your sensors from the Motor Area...

                One of the very few materials that would stop/block Radiant Energy Rays...is the Carbon Fibers...and in some direct involvement it will just kill it...it will not get generated at all...unless you restart everything.

                I have done those Tests...


                Regards


                Ufopolitics
                UFOpolitics,

                Good work UFO!

                What manufacturer of carbon fiber performs as 100% block to radiant energy? What form or mesh size of carbon fiber are you utilizing to support this claim. We want to do it.

                Thanks,

                IndianaBoys

                Comment


                • RE: So...Let's do Groups instead of Pairs...

                  Originally posted by Ufopolitics Post 6397 View Post
                  Now...this answers your question Sampojo...About having Eight(8) Poles Per Pair...so Now You could figure GROUPS...BUT REMEMBER...Groups MUST stay within Bisector Limits...
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  Still working on Five Pole Video...
                  Ufo, are you saying that the RS based 20 pole bistator winding then will be the same as for the Bosch 20 quadstator?
                  I notice your Bosch 20-pole has 9 poles per group, but you implied earlier the RS based 5-pole design upleveled to a 20-pole bistator motor will still hold to a basic 8-pole group? Things still in flux there?

                  If I look at a the quad, the 9-pole group is dealing with one stator. Would that logic on a bistator mean that group would deal with 15 poles?

                  Are the bisector limits essentially the 90 degree arc between the N & S Pole of the Bosch stators? Or is the bisector limit the number of poles subtended by a stator? I think the Baldor has 8 there...


                  So will the groups end up focussing the North pole or make it a bit diffuse? What if the internal coils of a group were concentric instead of overlapping?

                  I can't tell which group hooks to which brush set in the diagrams very well...

                  I feel like the kid who asks too many questions. NP I wait for a diagram then.

                  EDIT: OK I was confused at first by the G1 group vs the G1 Generator brush designation, but I think I see it now. So these coils are just going to fire briefly near the point of max repulsion from N stator and max attraction from S stator at/near midpoint of the gap between stators? Is there a delay before the bemf kicks in. Looks like that is going to instantly fight the rotation...
                  Last edited by sampojo; 03-31-2014, 06:42 PM.
                  Up, Up and Away

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                    Ufo, are you saying that the RS based 20 pole bistator winding then will be the same as for the Bosch 20 quadstator?
                    Hey Sam,

                    Nope, I never said that...You asked before for a way to add some coils in the empty spaces for your Baldor, when doing it like a RS Five Poles...

                    I notice your Bosch 20-pole has 9 poles per group, but you implied earlier the RS based 5-pole design upleveled to a 20-pole bistator motor will still hold to a basic 8-pole group? Things still in flux there?
                    Sam, You talked about the Eight Poles when we were referring to PAIRS...not Groups.
                    You have 20 Poles, winding by 5 Pairs, each pair will have eight (8) poles...each coil will have 4 poles then...

                    If I look at a the quad, the 9-pole group is dealing with one stator.
                    Negative...look again, the 9 pole group G1 is "dealing" with North Stator (Repulsion) and South (Attraction)...and so is the Group G11 with the other two stators...

                    Would that logic on a bistator mean that group would deal with 15 poles?
                    Say whaaat??...

                    In a Bistator the Interaction N-S Repulse-Attract takes place also, between the two stators...at either end of Gap.

                    Are the bisector limits essentially the 90 degree arc between the N & S Pole of the Bosch stators? Or is the bisector limit the number of poles subtended by a stator? I think the Baldor has 8 there...
                    That is correct, the Bisector Limits are defined by the 90 Arc between each N-S Stators CENTER..or bisector.
                    The number of poles that you will build Group with...will depend, of course, on "fitting" within that 90 Angle...BUT leaving a GAP to play with timing...so IT CAN NEVER BE EXACTLY 90.


                    So will the groups end up focussing the North pole or make it a bit diffuse? What if the internal coils of a group were concentric instead of overlapping?
                    Concentric you mean for each pole One coil?

                    The rule of thumb on Motor Coils size be determined by the size of the Stator or permanent magnet Arc..more or less. This way the Magnetic Field is around the size of Stator, therefore, Bisectors encountering at similar angles...so Concentric Coils (per pole) will not work at all with bigger sized stators.

                    The overlapping of coils maintains Magnetic Fields also "Overlapped"...therefore, stronger than Individual Coils, not overlapped.
                    Overlapping allow Us to use more wire, cause we have more room or slots to spread wires at...

                    I can't tell which group hooks to which brush set in the diagrams very well...

                    I feel like the kid who asks too many questions. NP I wait for a diagram then.
                    Is ok, good questions Sam...will serve to others learning and reading this Posts...

                    EDIT: OK I was confused at first by the G1 group vs the G1 Generator brush designation, but I think I see it now.
                    Great...

                    So these coils are just going to fire briefly near the point of max repulsion from N stator and max attraction from S stator at/near midpoint of the gap between stators?
                    Nope...but you have the whole concept correct though...

                    This Coils will fire CLOSER to the Repulsion Stator (North in this types).THAN to the Attraction Stator (I wrote this before here on the previous Imperial Pair all north...)

                    You must realize a repulsion is a "push force" applied to rotor, pushing it AWAY..without limits...while the Attraction is a limited Pull reaction till it reaches the "lock up" of both bisectors or Field Alignment...then Motor would tend to heat up or rise amp draw to top limits, (even by being Too Close to this Lock Up Point) So, you must always leave the bigger angle gap towards attract stators, meaning, killing power to coils through your brushes alignment...considering the speed this motors would travel at...

                    Therefore, it is very important to check at commutator element leaving contact with brush (All Coils Off)...while observing that Coil Groups FIRST COIL is not too close nor passing the Attraction (South) Bisector or dead center of stator.

                    Yeah, I referred to high speed because with acceleration and inertia forces will carry heavy magnetic reminiscence to the lock up zone...not good.


                    Is there a delay before the bemf kicks in. Looks like that is going to instantly fight the rotation...
                    Don't worry...I told her to leave Us alone...

                    BEMF should kick in AS SOON AS Group Passes South Stator Bisector...but remember that Groups also Overlap between them...


                    Take care


                    Ufopolitics
                    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-31-2014, 08:02 PM.
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • finally got it

                      I appreciate the welcome from the guru himself, Mr. Ufopolitics. And thank you very much for the answer to my 5 pole winding question. Your illustration where the coils overlap, and as you specifically mentioned, clarified the new winding process for me. Just to report, as I anticipated that it will perform even better than the P-# method of winding, I mounted my new motor with a pair of bearings on each end. And does it take off when I power it on? Makes me more excited for this new method of winding used in a UFO Kit. Please know, Mr. Ufopolitics how much I appreciate what you are doing in this forum, your long hours working on the technology you are exposing us to, all the effort you put in laying out for us who want to learn at your feet and most of all the knowledge that you freely impart to us. Thank you very much and more power to you.

                      Comment


                      • @Team

                        I don't know if you have noticed but this thread has moved in to second position for the most views!


                        UFO, keep up the great work and hope to see a million this year! Awesome

                        Congratulations

                        Keep it Clean and Green
                        Midaz

                        Comment


                        • Right on guys!

                          I have been checking in steadily, good to see you guys making some progress....Ive got a RS 5 pole...The homopolar idea looks promising...As faradays homopolar generator supposedly was capable of a self sustaining current with modifications by tesla...This played some important parts in his turbine idea as well...

                          Anyways, I will do a RS 5 pole replication and compare it to the pentagon winding which I have laying around somewhere...Ive also got a 20 pole 1000W MY1020 motor still chillen. This new design looks promising...Can't wait to test it out!

                          @UFO

                          So this new homopolar design has "groups" of coils instead of pairs....? Is this wound the same way as the pairs except both windings are same direction? When I do the RS replication I suppose I will answer a lot of my own questions...

                          warrensk

                          Comment


                          • Groups pairs

                            Hi All, The attached is my attempt at 16 pole.
                            I wound two groups (a pair) , with each group having 8 coils 5 turns per coil , so 40 turns per group , 80 turns in the pair.
                            I tested the pair of groups and it ran quite well. But just hooked the start and the end on one comm.
                            I then wound the 2nd group 90 degrees offset from the first, added the second comm. ...so the starts of the 2 groups attached to the motor comm. ,and the 2 ends of the groups tied to the 2nd comm.
                            So really four single groups, (room for 12 more).
                            It ran very fast ,but as it ran my meter was showing the battery voltage going up.??? But when I disconnected the voltage dropped , but like UFO said the motor continues to spin for a couple seconds. strange.
                            Still not sure if I'm doing this right but it seems to be working.
                            artv
                            Last edited by shylo; 04-11-2014, 09:04 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Groups

                              Something strange happens when you add more groups, the magnetic field of the coils you are inducing changes ,in relation to the coil that has just fired, 90 degrees away.
                              I added 3& 4 group pairs , It creates severe lock-up, when it should not.
                              Melted leads , and lots of smoke.
                              I think the collapsing field of the coil that just left ,..power-on....is inducing the on-coming coil that is to be powered.
                              I'm gonna remove 3 & 4 and run again.
                              UFO have you noticed this??
                              artv

                              Comment


                              • Good job Shylo!

                                Originally posted by shylo View Post
                                Hi All, The attached is my attempt at 16 pole.
                                I wound two groups (a pair) , with each group having 8 coils 5 turns per coil , so 40 turns per group , 80 turns in the pair.
                                I tested the pair of groups and it ran quite well. But just hooked the start and the end on one comm.
                                I then wound the 2nd group 90 degrees offset from the first, added the second comm. ...so the starts of the 2 groups attached to the motor comm. ,and the 2 ends of the groups tied to the 2nd comm.
                                So really four single groups, (room for 12 more).
                                It ran very fast ,but as it ran my meter was showing the battery voltage going up.??? But when I disconnected the voltage dropped , but like UFO said the motor continues to spin for a couple seconds. strange.
                                Still not sure if I'm doing this right but it seems to be working.
                                artv
                                Hello Shylo, good work friend!

                                Now, it worries me you keep calling this Two INDEPENDENT GROUPS ..."Pairs"...?...I hope you are not connecting them in series between each other?

                                Remember each Individual Group here is taking the place of what used to be a "Pair" of Coils.

                                And yes, the Induction would be greater on this type of winding...so make sure that the CEMF is aligned to act/start as Repulsive Fields by passing Stators Bisectors right after disconnect...and not locking up rotation.

                                More strange things coming up...


                                Regards


                                Ufopolitics
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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