Electrolysis Accelerator

[RAMSET]

Mookie
Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to explore this!!

The link at the bottom doesn't work on your above post .

Chet

[Mookie]

Plate alignment with the electromagnet :

Electromagnet Electrode Alignment (600 x 450).jpg

[sebosfato]

Hello Mookie,

I'm really interested in replicating your device too, i got very interested about this avalanche effect...

I have very powerful neo magnets here too, and i will try to create a big pole on one side and the alternating magnetic field on the other side...

Do you know if there is any problem about the ac magnetic field being of higher frequency? I thought that could be easier to get a resonant tank .. This way no reactive power would be seeing on the input from the mains... Anyway i understand that i can't reduce the inductance without increasing the amps to have the same field strength. However i think would become a bit more efficient, if proper capacitor is provided... I will drive this resonant tank with high voltage, as to be able to reach the same amperage... I believe that could be a good thing if the frequency is a bit higher.

I'm going to buy an used variac 1,5kw that i found here (is cheaper than a new with low rating) ...

I will try to find a ac electromagnet to work with too... However i would like to understand more about what is the configuration of the magnet you showed... Does it have 2 coils? You said that in the middle there is two similar poles opposing? Could you please make a clearer drawing of the magnet and poles configuration? Because probably i will need to construct this using an E I core if i can't find a proper one... So a better understanding would be helpful.

I have here 430 tape wire, witch i will probably use as electrodes to make the first tests..

I'm a bit puzzled about the resonance you mentioned.

I'm here ready to do it!

If you have any additional info that you want to give to me or any other advice, you can also send to me on my email... [email protected]

I thank you a lot for your initiative to share this important thing to the mankind.

You can be sure that i will do my best to replicate this and also trying to help making it even better if possible.

Best Regards

Fabio

[RAMSET]

Mookie
In your post #15 on this thread ,you have an attachment
at the bottom of the page "Attachment 6761"

This is what comes up when I click on that Attachment

""Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please"" notify the administrator


???
Something is wrong,Its not going thru!!
Chet

[Mookie]

Fabio

I run many boring, repetitive, systematic tests before reaching conclusions on most things.
After hundreds of hours, testing both with neos and with DC (pulsed and direct) electromagnets
I eliminated all possibilities (for myself) that they can create the resonating effect.
An alternating N/S electromagnet is required. Perhaps you can look up how they work for yourself
in that, although I have a good understanding, I am not the best person to explain it to you.

Keep in mind that it is the rigid plates themselves that you want to resonate.
The undulating waves that you see in the vid is caused by the electrode plates resonating back and forth.
It is the resonating plates that cause the acceleration and the "avalanche effect"
I doubt that one can get only the plates themselves to resonate with a resonating tank.

Let me try to explain it differently ..hope this makes it less puzzling:

The more voltage applied to the electromagnet, the more current the electromagnet is able to draw,
meaning that the magnet becomes stronger, causing the plates to vibrate faster (at higher frequency)
..that's exactly what you see in the vid.

You would be best to go to the internet for a good description of how to wind an E-core electromagnet
as I do not build my own...or maybe you could post a new thread for someone else to help you with that.
There appear to be many people winding their own elsewhere in the forum.

Chet: The attachment is in Post 17

Mookie

[Mookie]

To anyone reading thru these threads


I would like to qualify what I say when I refer to electron avalanche.

When you look up the term on the internet, electron avalanche is described
as being caused by something other than how I appear to have created it here.

So when I refer to it, I am referring to the "effect" of electron avalanche as it is described,
which appears to be exactly what I have created ...just differently.

Mookie

[vrand]

Hi Mookie,

Thank you again for sharing your interesting research results and effects. Thanks also for the heads up on those EM's, I picked up a couple from ebay controlledautomation.

Researchers using electromagnets in water or air have reported interesting effects over the years. Walter Russell talked about it 100 years ago and did experiments at Westinghouse with air transmutation, recently reproduced by Toby Grotz.


Dr. Russell's, Periodic Table of Elements and Transmutation
Google: Walter Russell, Periodic Table of Elements and Transmutation | MERLib.org

There are a lot of strange effects reported over the years when you add either high voltage or high EM fields, both static and cycling.

I would like to build a cell as I find it interesting these effects reported over the years, and your observed findings and effects confirms to me that there is something special happening. Your help is much appreciated.

Reproduction questions:

Cell Questions:

1- What size plates and dimensions have you found worked best with controlledautomation's 1430 pounds electromagnet (EM)? What is the maximum depth can the plates be to still be in the electromagnet magnetic field? For example, if the plates are 6" tall by 6" wide, will the 1430 pound EM field only reach 3" into the plates 6" width? Will it reach the height also?

2- Does the plates height and depth need to be 100% in the face of the EM and its magnetic field? Or, can a majority (51%) be in the face of the EM and the 410 ss plates will resonate the balance of the plate areas not in the field?

3- How many plates and spacing? For example, if you make the plate spacing 1/32" vs 1/8" you can fit 32 plates in 1", vs. 8 plates in 1". In conventional HHO cell designs 1/8" spacing is used so that the large bubbles can rise to the top. In your cell the bubbles are really tiny so maybe a smaller plate spacing can be used? What spacing have you found that worked best?

4- Plate thickness? Have you found that there is a min. plate thickness that worked best? I noticed that your photo showed corrosion on your stainless steel so maybe the plates wear out sooner?

5- It looks like in your photo that you used 6 plates series cell? With the +/- at the ends, with 4 neutral plates in between = 12VDC for a 2VDC in each cell? Or, is your cell + - + - + - + - positive-negative wired cell?

6- Grade of martensitic stainless steel you found that worked best? Supplier name?

7- Is there a wire wrapped around your cell? Your photo showed what looked like a wire. If so, what size wire and number of turns? Reason for the wire?

8- What electrolyte works best? KOH or NaOH? Used distilled water?

9- What DC amperage and voltage worked best for the plates? High amps makes more HHO gas typically.

10- What container worked best? To be able to get as close to the EM fields as possible. I guess a square container is best shape?

11- Plastic container or acrylic or stainless steel metal (non-magnetic) or glass container, which worked best? Thickness of container?

12- I noticed that you had the electromagnet on the side of the cell, would it also work on the bottom of the cell? Which side works best?

13- Have you tried 2 electromagnets? One on each side, or one on side and one on bottom?


Questions on the 1430 pound electromagnet:

14- What amperage and AC voltage worked best? I guess this depends on the plates dimensions.

This is what Controlled Automation Inc. said about AC vs DC:

"A summary of Controlled Automation’s Electromagnets"
Our electromagnet description

"AC verses DC

In general electromagnets don’t work well on AC. Although they will work, they are much weaker using AC over DC. The magnets that we manufacture have only about 10% of the lifting strength when using 120VAC over 24VDC. If you do not have DC power readily available you can put a diode in line with the 120 VAC and get a much stronger magnet. With a diode in the circuit this magnet will be energized and de-energized 60 times a second. That creates a pretty noisy hum."

15- Since we are not using the AC EM for lifting, only using it for its changing field polarities from N-S every 60 cycles, what is the maximum volts and amps can we use continuously without over heating the electromagnet?

16- Is the electromagnet supported in foam inside the box enclosure to suppress the vibrations?

17- What foam insulation and plastic box worked best to support the EM? Supplier?

These are some questions I have that can get me started in the right direction in gathering the parts to build a unit.

Thanks again for all your help. Keep up the good work!

Best regards,
Mike R.

[sucahyo]

Very interesting .

I try submerging a computer speaker once and observe nothing. I guess higher power is required.

Do the accelerator give effect to the water or to the cell? If you put two cell in that jar, one further to the accelerator than other, would both produce same increase? This is to see if it really the magnetic property of the cell and not vibration of water. If it is the later one, can we shake the bottle instead?


Thanks for sharing .

Firstly I want to congratulate Sucahyo on his Stingo circuit discovery. A great accomplishment.
Although I have no personal application for it, its terrific to see new things happening in this forum.

Thanks . I think we can use radiant circuit to force more current in electrolysis. I got more bubble from 12V source with stingo.

[vrand]

17- What foam insulation and plastic box worked best to support the EM? Supplier?
.

Looking at the photo, there is no foam, so question 17 is answered.

Additional cell question:

18- Are the plates sanded? Or no need for sanded the plate surfaces to make peaks and valleys?

Regards,
Mike R.

[watkykjy]

Hi Mookie,

Just a question... I have a HUGE Bob boyce type selaed series cell, built with 317L stainless steel to the highest standards. By default this cell is about 98% efficient, so I was wondering if you've ever tested with just normal non-magnetic SS, and also sealed series cells?

Either way, between myself and Nvisser, we are definatly gonna give this ago some time soon!

[RAMSET]

Mookie
I an not trying to be negative in any way here!!

But some pretty amazing things have been associated with "Cavitation" as well !
Have you ever seen "Light"[sonoluminescence] in your cell?

Any how It wasn't my Idea it was Farrahs [ but it gave me Goose bumps]
she's here,
Post 147

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-5.html

Ignore my silly Anti banning comments please [at the link]

Chet

Ps
And cavitation in water and the whole "Show" that goes with it.[big goose bumps]

YouTube - Pistol Shrimp

PPS She also asked, Whats in the soup?[electrolyte?]

[Mookie]

Vrand

1- What size plates and dimensions have you found worked best with controlledautomation's 1430 pounds electromagnet (EM)? What is the maximum depth can the plates be to still be in the electromagnet magnetic field? For example, if the plates are 6" tall by 6" wide, will the 1430 pound EM field only reach 3" into the plates 6" width? Will it reach the height also?
- There are many images on the net that show magnetic field. Field strength is always greater at the poles and extends further out as the magnet gets stronger.
- Generally you would want your plates to be slightly taller than the distance between the poles.
- Purchase any toy compass for your tests. You will find your extended "reach" in that manner.
2- Does the plates height and depth need to be 100% in the face of the EM and its magnetic field? Or, can a majority (51%) be in the face of the EM and the 410 ss plates will resonate the balance of the plate areas not in the field?
- Both will work, but better with 100% coverage.

3- How many plates and spacing? For example, if you make the plate spacing 1/32" vs 1/8" you can fit 32 plates in 1", vs. 8 plates in 1". In conventional HHO cell designs 1/8" spacing is used so that the large bubbles can rise to the top. In your cell the bubbles are really tiny so maybe a smaller plate spacing can be used? What spacing have you found that worked best?
- This will work with any conventional plate configuration and cell design. ( 2 plates or as many as you have ). I personally use 1/8" spacing.

4- Plate thickness? Have you found that there is a min. plate thickness that worked best? I noticed that your photo showed corrosion on your stainless steel so maybe the plates wear out sooner?
- I have not tested a wide variety of plate thicknesses. Those plate are 2 years old and were tested using numerous electrolyte solutions.

5- It looks like in your photo that you used 6 plates series cell? With the +/- at the ends, with 4 neutral plates in between = 12VDC for a 2VDC in each cell? Or, is your cell + - + - + - + - positive-negative wired cell?
- ( +/-) at the ends
6- Grade of martensitic stainless steel you found that worked best? Supplier name?
- I live in Canada and get all my ss for free from a friend at a metal supplier.

7- Is there a wire wrapped around your cell? Your photo showed what looked like a wire. If so, what size wire and number of turns? Reason for the wire?
- Those are a couple of (black) rubber gaskets around the plates used to cushion them a bit so that they dont shatter the glass
( not necessary with a non-glass cell)8- What electrolyte works best? KOH or NaOH? Used distilled water?
9- What DC amperage and voltage worked best for the plates? High amps makes more HHO gas typically.
- That is up to you and the type of cell that you make.10- What container worked best? To be able to get as close to the EM fields as possible. I guess a square container is best shape?
- I am personally fond of a square 2 liter plastic WalMart container for most of my cells. You see one in the vid containing my transformer.
Yes a flat surface is what you want.11- Plastic container or acrylic or stainless steel metal (non-magnetic) or glass container, which worked best? Thickness of container?
- as above12- I noticed that you had the electromagnet on the side of the cell, would it also work on the bottom of the cell? Which side works best?
- Yes it does, but not as effectively when using a glass cell, as the bottom is generally thicker glass, and is concave in shape.
Works quite well using the type of container I mentioned above. The greater the plate area that your electromagnet can cover, the better.
13- Have you tried 2 electromagnets? One on each side, or one on side and one on bottom?
- I have not.

Questions on the 1430 pound electromagnet:

14- What amperage and AC voltage worked best? I guess this depends on the plates dimensions.
- You will find that for yourself.
15- Since we are not using the AC EM for lifting, only using it for its changing field polarities from N-S every 60 cycles, what is the maximum volts and amps can we use continuously without over heating the electromagnet?
- The particular magnets that you purchased are designed for continuous use. They will only become lukewarm. They will come to you with the resistance
already measured for you and clearly marked on the electromagnet. ..You will need to know this about your magnets:

"Amperage on our magnets is a function of the voltage. This can be calculated by using Ohm’s law. The equation to figure the amperage is the applied voltage divided by the resistance. So, as an example if you were to apply 12VDC to one of our magnets that has 2 Ohms of resistance, the maximum amperage would be 6 amps (12/2). Here’s another example; if you apply 24VDC to a magnet that had 160 Ohms of resistance, the maximum amperage would be 0.15 amps (24/160)."
Mookie

[Mookie]

Sucahayo

The cell takes on a magnetic property. That is the most amazing part of this for me.
When you turn off the cell after you have run it, and just run the accellerator alone,
you visibly can see the water particles following the magnetic field.

...that is the most awesome thing about it.

Mookie

[Mookie]

Vrand

I never sand plates. I condition them in a supersaturated solution of salt water
by running the DC cell for an hour then reversing the wires and running for another hour.

It is by far the most effective way I have found to condition plates.
It removes huge amounts of impurites and etches the plates.

Mookie

[Mookie]

Watkykjy
Non-magnetic ss does not work.

Ramset
No I have not seen sonoluminescence...but perhaps its not obvious..I may look for it some time
using a blacklight / flourescent, and/or UV lighting...I will read your links when I have more time.

KOH in the electrolyte.


Mookie