None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[Aaron]

The Bakerian Lecture, on Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity

Just for the full Sir Humphrey Davy reference:

The Bakerian Lecture, on Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity. [Abstract]

• Humphry Davy
• Abstracts of the Papers Printed in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London
  Vol. 1, (1800 - 1814), pp. 247-253
  (article consists of 7 pages)
• Published by: The Royal Society
• Stable URL: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

I think the Bakerian paper has the reference of:
Nascent Hydrogen. The doctrine of the nascent state has been developed, for the most part, in terms of hydrogen. Davy noticed in 1807 that electrolytic hydrogen will combine with nitrogen in the presence of water, while ordinary hydrogen will not.

The Nascent State, J. H. Reedy and E. D. Biggers, J. Chem. Educ., 1942, 19 (9), p 403, DOI: 10.1021/ed019, p403, Publication Date: September 1942.


Here is the full Bakerian paper for free - I don't recall if that reference
is in this paper or another.
The Bakerian Lecture: On Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity — Philosophical Transactions

In any case, it is NOT necessary for anyone to know anything about this
paper to do the experiments. I'm posting it because it is simply the oldest
reference I know of showing that where there is nitrogen in the presence
of water being split that hydrogen will bond to the nitrogen.

In that Bakerian paper, you'll also see references to the nitrogen
"dissolved gases" that Meyer always talks about even though the Meyer
"gurus" make it sound like the amount is insignificant. Those opinions are
irrelevant and have been for over 200 years. There are significant
pH changes, etc... in the water and is known, shown, scientifically
validated that much of the action with simply "water" can create various
chemicals other than just those strictly related to H and O - and in this
Davy paper, there is a whole section on "dissolved gases", word for work
what Meyer is talking about.

Now when bubbling ambient air or exhaust nitrogen through water, you'll
have more nitrogen available than just water that has been "exposed to
air" as Davy discusses.

Just for a reference and interesting history that backs what is discussed
in this thread and just for fun - and it is NOT required to understand these
references to make something work. Just good to have the references to
substantiate the principles that are involved in making real water fuel.

If that Bakerian paper doesn't have the reference, please let me know and
I'll try to find it in the other papers.

Here is an old post with a bunch of other nh3 creation references from
way back:

http://www.energeticforum.com/90017-post533.html

[Duncan]

Hi All
I am home at last. It was great to meet all you guys!!
For some dark unexplainable reason I missed the meeting at the conference and when I made it back there I did not know where you were.
Is there any way that some of the details about the RF part (at least) could be repeated here on the thread?
Thanks
Vissie

[Aaron]

thank!

Thanks Mike!

Thanks for the reference paper Alex - I will look over that tonight.
Need to catch up on some sleep

[tutanka]

Nvisser,

The key has always been nitrogen.......

You need nitrogen bubbling up in the water mix as the water is "split".

Aaron,
Probably you and some peoples think that for dissociated NH3 you need to use thermal plasma from capacitor discharge and tungsten plugs for not consume electrode!! This is wrong!! You need to use non-equilibrium plasma or simply called non-thermal plasma. ONLY with that released energy you can "crack" NH3 molecule into NH2+H, in that way you don't produce any hydrogen outside but all reaction appear inside the chambre of combustion that is safety and simple to control. If in your mixture of NH3/air you add nitrous oxide you obtain an strange reaction, in fact hydrogen atoms released from NH3 (NH2+H) acts as catalyst on nitrous oxide releasing an great amount of energy, much more than gasoline! But attention that reaction appear only with an mixture of ammonia, nitrous oxide and air; if you use an mixture of hydrogen/air and you add nitrous oxide that reaction don't appear

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Aaron I am flabergasted

Aaron what a great explination, you have really learnt the system.

Just one thing to add, what happens when the molecules vibrate is that they internally heat up and they can reach very high temperatures inside and only radiate a small amount of this heat, this increases the N and H bonding.

As far as producing H2 and O2, yes it will, but not the way to go as I have explained time and time again.

What is better than a fuel that will run an engine with very simple adjustments as from petrol, a H2 and O2 perfect mix ON IT'S OWN is a very dangerous field to be in and your engine will not like it either.

Mike

[Aaron]

nitrogen is the key

Nvisser,

The key has always been nitrogen.

Hydroxy (hho, etc...) all explode then turn back into water right away
so you get no real "thermal combustive energy".

With nitrogen, it gets in the way of h & o forming back to water. There
will be h2o in exhaust but not much. Nitrogen in a way plays the part of
an EEC (Meyer's electron extraction circuit) so to speak. Any atomic nitrogen
is seeking 3 electrons to balance so can suck them up so the h&o doesn't
have access to them.

Nitrogen molecule has strongest molecular bond (triple electron bond).

So when split, it has the strongest suction for anything negatively charged.
3 H's can join to Nitrogen to make nh3. N is just a carrier for 3 atomic
hydrogens just as C is the carrier for hydrogen in carbon based fuels.

When burning, you crack 3 atomic H's off the ammonia and atomic
hydrogen gives you 3 times the power when burning compared to molecular
hydrogen.

You need the plasma ignition running with the water fuel - the plasma
can crack the H from the NH3 easily.

nh3 and n2o have always been the real water fuel. Other nitrogen oxygen
compounds are formed as well. The emissions are just nitrogen and
some water moisture.

Meyer called the nitrogen "non-combustible gases". He said you need that
in order to SLOW down the burn rate of the water fuel. That means you
get the thermal energy out of it as described above. Without, you get a
quick hho brown's gas pop that turns back into water - just a waste of
time.

All the self-proclaimed Meyer Guru's refuse to acknowledge the above and
I provided all the proof based on Meyer's own words in the Ionization
thread but they still want to debate it. They are lost because they
just want to focus on making as much as hho as possible while refusing
to recognize the more important key - Nitrogen.

I also posted references that go back to the early 1800's - the first was
Davy that showed that Nitrogen will bind to electrolytic hydrogen in
the presence of water. Basically, it has been known for 200 years that
you can make nh3 (ammonia) out of air, water and electricity at low
power, low heat and low pressure.

You need nitrogen bubbling up in the water mix as the water is "split".

[nvisser]

(H bonds to N for nh3, some o bonds to n for n2o, etc...)
Does this means that without nitrogen the process will not work. Are the n2o and n3h the fuel now.
Will hydroxy not be formed without the nitrogen?
I think I lost you now.

[Aaron]

molecule creation

Hi Vissie,

We were way in the back past the fire place in the lobby.

The concept is in this thread, Mike just went into a lot more detail.

Water vapor coming up - vapor for more surface area to absorb the RF.

2 antennas that it moves up through.

One antenna with 100mhz the other with 600mhz (6 times spread is
required). They interfere with each other can create a difference and
sum of those frequencies. 500mhz and 700mhz.

All 4 frequencies mix and effect the water molecules. Bonds are weakened
in the nitrogen molecules (bubbled from exhaust - or pumped in from a
nitrogen tank, etc...) and h2o bonds are weakened. Instead of necessarily
splitting, the elongated weakened bonds swap between each other like
a boiling stew (in vapor not submerged).

So H bonds to N for nh3, some o bonds to n for n2o, etc...

[nvisser]

Hi All
I am home at last. It was great to meet all you guys!!
For some dark unexplainable reason I missed the meeting at the conference and when I made it back there I did not know where you were.
Is there any way that some of the details about the RF part (at least) could be repeated here on the thread?
Thanks
Vissie

[Aaron]

focus on the rf

have taken 9 months to build it from my instruction.

Just advice to everyone - have at least a 12" diameter lathe to give enough
clearance to turn a 6.5" OD heavy steel tube. Can always be built with semi
exhaust pipe, etc..., but I'd recommend building it with good quality materials
and make it rugged - instead of just good enough to make it run.

My 9X19 lathe was only good for some of the project and had to have a friend
do the big tube on his large equipment - for free thankfully.

With the right tools, probably 1-2 week job to make one really good.

If you all get the RF circuit running first and prove that out, the sky is
the limit or maybe the moon. You can apply it to many applications but
a jet engine is the simplest. Make sure to check out that turbojet thread
I started here and check out the references like the yahoo group.

Anyway, please focus on the RF "reactor" since that is the KEY.

[citfta]

Thank you!!

I feel like the real thanks should go to you for being willing to share with us. I learned a lot from you in the few minutes we spent together. It sure didn't seem like an hour and half. Thanks again for taking the time and having the patience to share with us.

Carroll

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Thanks to all

@ All

May I just thank all that were at the conference and the warm welcome that I had from 30+ people for the 11/2hr talk on the none eletrolytic splitting of the H2O molecule, even though we were interupted by a security guard.

During my stay I have sorted out the possible production of the RF part of the system and this is currently being worked on and hope to have available in the not too distant future.

Working in the background, Aaron and co hope to have a full replication of my 1989 prototype for my 60th birthday, 11th jan They are well on the way with completing the original jet engine and running first time which I saw while I was there, a big hand for Aaron an Jeff whom have taken 9 months to build it from my instruction. It runs better than mine did at very low 5000 RPM up to very high 20000+ RPM, and is quieter than a vacuum cleaner yet makes a very good leaf blower

Will keep all posted as and when there is more to say, there is a lot of work to be done.

Mike

[Harvey]

Wish I could have been there. NARF said they would like to send me, but they wanted "Lot's of Pictures" to go with my writeup on the conference. After I wrote them that pictures are absolutely restricted as are cell phones, I have not heard back from them. Air fare has doubled since my first request so at this point I guess it's a no go

I know you all will have a good time

[Michael John Nunnerley]

See you there

@ All

See you there, we need to talk about quite a few things and what is planed for the future

Going to pack my case, leave tomorrow at 5am from my house and it is now 6pm here, long three plane journey. Be sure to bring warm cloths , it is cold out there but for sure a warm welcome for all.

Mike

[nvisser]

Wow Duncan
Do you plan a TV transmitter station?