Water Sparkplug

[Jetijs]

Chris,
I use an infrared thermometer and just point it at the same point on the exhaust pipe each time. And yes, this is on the genset

[Chris31]

But on the other hand, every time I turn the vexus booster side ON, the engine exhaust temperature drops by about 10-15 degree Celsius.
Thanks,
Jetijs

@ Jetijs

How are you measuring the exhaust temp? are you using an EGT sensor? Is this on the genset?

[Jetijs]

I do have a question for you. Is it your understanding that as an engine is leaned out so does the temperature rise?

Luc

That is how it is supposed to be and this is because if you have a rich mixture, there is more moisture (gasoline) in the mix thus it cools the cylinder. When you run leaner, there is more air and less moisture that could cool the engine. I can see this if I run my genset and monitor the temperatures. If I close the air intake of the carburetor a bit, more vacuum is created to suck more gasoline in the engine making the mixture richer. And the temperature goes down a bit. But on the other hand, every time I turn the vexus booster side ON, the engine exhaust temperature drops by about 10-15 degree Celsius.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[gotoluc]

5% is good bearing in mind no other changes. The mixtures in the average auto ICE are "rich", easy to light mixtures. So spark wont have a massive effect.
However it is in the "lean" (16.5:1+), hard to ignite mixtures where I expect this ignition system to shine.

Auto makers "tune for emissions" first then economy second. They have to by law. The latest emission regulations restricts the leanest A/F ratio to 14.7 as Nox dramatically rises after 14.7 to about 16:1. But after about 20:1 Nox dramatically reduces. But current ignition systems will usually experience "lean misfire" after about 17:1. So we are stuck with 14.7

So I think that the best test for this ignition will be seeing how lean a mixture will it fire. If it can fire 24:1 lean mixtures without misfire then we are going somewhere.

I have the equipment to test the lean misfire limit but I am unsure as to what is the better circuit to use at this point.

Ideally if someone could post up a "laymans" electronic circuit with a parts list it would make it easier for me to get started. Preferably the one without using the lightglobe.

Hi turbotrana,

I do agree with what you are saying and we will get to that point. As I see it now, the electronics side of the circuit is still being ironed out. We can do it in many ways but plug wear is going to be an important issue to deal with which will direct us to how the circuit may need to be. The next issue will be power consumption, to bring it to a minimal, which again will further the circuit. I think once these are dealt with we will create a laymans illustration circuit that most anyone will be able to build and then those talented in the art or tuning a combustion engine will be able to take it to a super lean machine point.

I do have a question for you. Is it your understanding that as an engine is leaned out so does the temperature rise?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Luc

[gmeast]

plug and power

Hi guys, finally in. Now mixed results, seemed like we got 5% better MPG or so, which adding to the booster being 16% is still significant 21% . Now no one would be with out this plug circuit (as is) to start their car in winter. Even if they didn't run the circuit all the time and just bi- passed it after starting, Greg already showed us how useful it is by being able to start with no choke etc.

Here are the snaps of plugs after an average of 50 minutes driving a day for 6 days no rest. I think they held up OKAY, BUT There is some SLIGHT wear as you can see. Rev's circuit may still need less caps and more voltage IMO. We are gonna try that next. Greg may have found the best balance.

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Hi Ash,

I don't have as many hours on my plugs as you guys have on yours, but I do have about 50 hours so I'll send a pic of that. What is interesting to note is that my modest little spark computes to only 0.08 Joules of energy discharge ... 4uF x 200VDC! I am working on my oscillator to make the actual power required to generate that (small amount of) energy and power more in line WITH it.

The pic below is at about 4300 RPM. It shows the 4uF cap charge trace (very classic, typical - through an R1 of 500 Ohms) and the discharge trace (almost instantaneous, vertical).

Peace,

Greg

[revizal]

Hi Ash,

That was a good progress from your long driving test . With that big plasma spark it seems we need a special spark plug which strong enough to carry on the plasma effect. We've got the power booster allready.

One more point..What we need to know is if this plasma switched by an oscilator (timer) in high frequency could burn fuel like gasoline and diesel to get Hydrogen enrich that we can use to increase MPG (just like what MIT plasmatron done).

Rev.

[turbotrana]

5% is good bearing in mind no other changes. The mixtures in the average auto ICE are "rich", easy to light mixtures. So spark wont have a massive effect.
However it is in the "lean" (16.5:1+), hard to ignite mixtures where I expect this ignition system to shine.

Auto makers "tune for emissions" first then economy second. They have to by law. The latest emission regulations restricts the leanest A/F ratio to 14.7 as Nox dramatically rises after 14.7 to about 16:1. But after about 20:1 Nox dramatically reduces. But current ignition systems will usually experience "lean misfire" after about 17:1. So we are stuck with 14.7

So I think that the best test for this ignition will be seeing how lean a mixture will it fire. If it can fire 24:1 lean mixtures without misfire then we are going somewhere.

I have the equipment to test the lean misfire limit but I am unsure as to what is the better circuit to use at this point.

Ideally if someone could post up a "laymans" electronic circuit with a parts list it would make it easier for me to get started. Preferably the one without using the lightglobe.

[ashtweth]

Hi Jetijs, thanks for the report Bro, if i got HALF the R and D done you do man i would die a happy man hmm well at least we didn't loose as much as those pulstar plugs .

I still think if it wasn't for the open source engineers doing these tiny tweaks we would not have the opportunity (like the video you guys made) to show people and make them realize what the weakest link is in the ICE- THE SPARK PLUG. AND Ian's and Rob suppressed plugs + more. We have a By pass circuit on Rev's version, (building Greg's soon) i am inclined to think we can still use what we have ATM to get up hills or for a quick start in the morning , mayby even run it in a duty cycle circuit

Or show some one how to smoke some one at the lights from second gear to 4th gear hehehe

We gotta get a booster up there for that genset man, i just spoke to Bill (nexus) he is building a hydroxy unit. You know the spark plug would help the GEET start to before the whole thing gets through the reactor.

Now thing i want to see is the 6.7-7.3% and WATT as opposed to HP on the DYNO in December. Maybe we can find a COP+1 in there some where this way ...

[Ansis Freimanis]

to Ash

Your results are "normal". It means HV Volts + LV Amps = wear of Sparkplugs metal electrodes. We have little welding machine on board... In scientist labs- they experimenting with wider electrodes gaps between electrodes- it mean higher voltages and lover current, but they have long- duration impulses with HV DC 3000V capacity discharge "boosters". I read in Russian literature about American experiments in ~1980 years using plasma discharge ignitions. They (Americans) are igniting the mix of fuel with long- high frequency impulses. That means- fuel mix are prepared to ignite for longer period of time- no one dot of explosion, but from time "0" to time "x"(its about 30 degree angle). Temperature between electrodes is about 40 000 degree Celsius, but secondary 3000V are discharge to 900V in this period of time (30 degree angle). Max fuel economy was 14%.
P.S. I think- in our "home" laboratory’s we must be very clever, to experimenting with this stuff of equipment. We can dy easily...

[Jetijs]

Hi Ash.
Thank you for the video and plug wear pics.
I made some plug wear tests using some low quality non resistor spark plugs. I used the original spark and boosted it with 10uF caps charged to 310V via a 40w lightbulb. This whole thing consumed 35w. I noticed that the more watts your spark booster circuit consumes, the faster will also the spark plug wear out. After 2 hours of non stop running on my generator, the spark plug already showed a little wear. And that is only with 30w input. I calculated that if I drove an average of 3-4 hours a day, I could probably drive about a month till the spark plug failed due to electrode wear. But with some higher quality plugs you might go longer.
Although it is hard to get some stable data out of my genset, but after many many tests, my conclusion is that the fuel economy using the water spark setup with vexus circuit is about 6.7-7.3%, so this is almost the same number that you had
Good job!

[ashtweth]

Plug wear report

Hi guys, finally in. Now mixed results, seemed like we got 5% better MPG or so, which adding to the booster being 16% is still significant 21% . Now no one would be with out this plug circuit (as is) to start their car in winter. Even if they didn't run the circuit all the time and just bi- passed it after starting, Greg already showed us how useful it is by being able to start with no choke etc.

Here are the snaps of plugs after an average of 50 minutes driving a day for 6 days no rest. I think they held up OKAY, BUT There is some SLIGHT wear as you can see. Rev's circuit may still need less caps and more voltage IMO. We are gonna try that next. Greg may have found the best balance.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pic0008pj9.jpg

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Here are the custom leads Andrew made
Which comprise 16 diodes 1000 Volt 3 amps
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[ashtweth]

Hi Rev, thank you for all your great videos, especially the pollution ones, it really made a difference to the whole presentation .

Now yes today it is D day, ill pull them off and make a video of them, we have 30 minutes left of driving as i write this. . I think Andrew (driver) filled up recently so the MPG report wont be far off. Ill also be able to take the car to get a Dyno done in December for all- Wont be long

Ash

[revizal]

Plug condition after 7 days test

Here you go guys, we were so impressed with all the groups efforts, and research that it inspired us to put this video production together with every ones collective efforts.

Water_Spark_Plug.avi

In fact i am so impressed with this research and how far every one is taking it working together that i am going to talk to the Panacea trustee's about making a donation to our head engineer Luc at the end of the year for this research

Greg, Luc, lapperll, Peter Lindermann ALL! you guys all know who you are and are mentioned and featured in this video.So you guys don't get board, we added in our results of the booster on the Brigg's also with the booster on the car, plus this video also features a suppressed plug (Ian's) exclusively given to us, we also aimed to help Rob Kupra and him, plus support the open source engineers.

You guys get the Panacea award for excellence - under the "open source device of the year", and at the end of the year ill be talking to Luc to help all, ill be adding to this video all other results and our plug wear report as they come in so its a good start.

Well done guys, the video is also a compilation as well.
Be on you tube as well tongiht

Hi Ash,

Thank you for the video. It was a very strong support for the forum to continue the progress of the plasma spark.

Btw, after 7 days of driving test, how about your plug condition? Is there any melting electrode just like Jetijs's one? Any wear at distributor side? And how about the fuel consumption so far?

In my driving test my full baterry charged 600 watt UPS drawn empty for only about 40 minutes 'plasma ON'. It was so quick that I could not try it for long distance driving (hours).

Revizal.

[gmeast]

progress

Hey Guys,

I've been going kinda slow here since Saturday. Thanks everyone for your concern and comments for me to get better from the shock accident.

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I am using quad shield satellite cable (18 gauge inner wire, shielded to 2,300mhz) from the voltage tripler inside the cab out to the standard 2-way and 4-way cable TV splitters under the hood. 2.5uF at 450VDC powered by a 1000 watt inverter and isolation transformer. Inverter is happy as a Lark, so far so good! I will post pics tomorrow, my wife has the camera today. I can't wait to see how this 350 Chevy is going to perform on the road with this circuit! Stay tuned, it can only get better from here on out............................................... Mike

Hi Mike,

On top of being glad you're recovering, I am also looking forward to your renewed progress with VexUs and any details you provide.

Peace,

Greg

[jstadwater]

Hey Guys,

I've been going kinda slow here since Saturday. Thanks everyone for your concern and comments for me to get better from the shock accident. It means allot that you guys care about others, so thanks from the bottom of my still beating heart! I still have shoulder and rib pain, but it's getting better each day. I actually slept without enough pain to wake me last night, first time since Saturday.

I just completed the VexUs install in the Suburban, started it up and it purred like a kitten! I have a couple tests to perform before I take her out on the road. I started it up without the plasma circuit on, and monitored the readouts on my laptop through the OBD2 connection. Specifically the o2 sensors and the fuel trim readouts, fuel trim was 0% as normal and o2 sensors were reading normally. I flipped on the VexUs circuit and the fuel trim readouts started fluctuating like crazy, as did the o2 sensor signals, I guess the ECM was trying to figure out what the heck was going on! (Good luck with that, mr. ECM ) This was at factory settings, I have not changed the program yet to lean out the fuel mixture or retard the timing, that'll be tomorrow! When the plasma circuit comes on, the idle does go up and immediately the ECM takes over the idle speed to keep it "acceptable" according to it's program parameters. (I can re-program that also) I measured the amp draw from the battery to the inverter, at idle it was 2 amps. I quickly opened the throttle, (no stumble or miss, very quick response and smooth as can be) and held it for a few seconds probably around 3,000 rpm from the sound, the amp draw never went past 3.5 amps. Keep in mind, this is a 5.7 liter V-8, instead of a 4-cylinder, pretty low amps there. I also measured the feed line to the kick wires, the draw is still only between .10 and .12 amps.

I am using quad shield satellite cable (18 gauge inner wire, shielded to 2,300mhz) from the voltage tripler inside the cab out to the standard 2-way and 4-way cable TV splitters under the hood. 2.5uF at 450VDC powered by a 1000 watt inverter and isolation transformer. Inverter is happy as a Lark, so far so good! I will post pics tomorrow, my wife has the camera today. I can't wait to see how this 350 Chevy is going to perform on the road with this circuit! Stay tuned, it can only get better from here on out............................................... Mike