Water Sparkplug

[Jetijs]

Aaron, great setup you guys have there
I decided also to try this out, but first at my 3kW generator. I disassembled the ignition side and removed the ignition coil from the magneto. Then I made a fastening plate with some holes out of aluminum so that I can now adjust the distance from the magnet to the reed switch and the timing. I made a small test and tried if the magnet can trigger the reed switch and it can. I can also adjust the ON time of the reed switch. The magnet on the wheel is very strong, so I need a rather big distance between the magnet and the reed switch. Here are some pictures:





So I am ready to go further. But at first I have a couple of questions.
1. I am intending to use my UPS to charge up the cap, that will be 230V. Which SCR would you suggest me to use?
2. So at the end what is the best diode config - half bridge or full bridge?
3. Can you touch the engine while it is running? I mean isn't there any electroshocks?

Jetijs

[Aaron]

spark stuff

Great overview Lee!

Caps charged with an inverter can keep up pretty fast and more than needed for any engine rpm.

Peter and I had a 555 circuit discharging 23+uf caps at 160v into primary up to 50 cycles per second and no problem. That speed is more than enough for a lawnmower.

Anyway, at that speed with as low as 23uf (single cap style), the plasma ball floats at the gap and doesn't eject...but even if not, that ball is probably a couple hundred times the volume of a few streamers of the normal cap discharge into primary.

So far, the highest voltage I've dumped as the booster cap side is about 1100v at about 20uf and highest capacitance was 330uf at 400-500v. With these kind of blasts, the plasma leaves the plug fast and far.

If anyone puts this on an engine and using scr to discharge caps, make sure the power goes off in between pulses or the scr will fire once and stay on. If using a variac or straight wall power to charge caps, use half bridge so scr turns off. With inverter, the modified sine wave can be used on full bridge to get full frequency with no problems turning off scr.

[Aaron]

engine setup

Hi Jetijs,

Nice timing plate. We weren't setup to easily make a slot in our plate but the slot is definitely preferable. Our reed is set just barely before TDC. It is where it is because it catches the leading edge of the magnet as the rotor spins clockwise. As we get to modifying fuel input and upping the blasts, we'll be moving past tdc since advanced timing isn't needed.

What kind of output wave does that UPS have? I just realized that I have a 120v UPS, but the battery is dead in it. Maybe I don't have to buy an inverter. If it goes to 0 or negative on each cycle, then the scr can turn off but you probably already know that. We used a 2n6507 because that is all I had on hand. The others I just got and will use from now on is 2N6509. Actualy 2N6509TG is all that was in stock so I got those.

With a full bridge, the cap will charge faster and if the power supply does go 0 or neg so scr can turn off, full bridge might be preferable especially for higher rpm.

We only used half bridge temporarily when using straight wall power to charge cap because with full bridge, the galloping dc 120hz never goes off and the spark on the mower would fire once then the scr never reset.

With running on this system, there are no shocks...that we have encountered...so far lol

I'll show a circuit soon that I'm working on to increase efficiency of the booster cap side.

The general direction I want to move with this is 2-4uf 500v cap charged to about 400v and discharged into primary. That cap charged with a center tapped 12v/120v transformer with 12v center tapped side as input and output through tripler or quadrupler. Pretty typical cdi method.

Then booster cap style with power supply charging cap or bank that is 500 rating but charged to 400v+ but less than 500. Capacitance to be increased as needed. The caps I have happen to be 330uf and that is what I noticed Capacitor 70 used with the 220v inverter or ups or whatever he had.

Anyway, I spray painted the rotor black like you see in the pics. I put a square of aluminum tape for a reflector and will try to use an optical tachometer to measure rpm.

So I am ready to go further. But at first I have a couple of questions.
1. I am intending to use my UPS to charge up the cap, that will be 230V. Which SCR would you suggest me to use?
2. So at the end what is the best diode config - half bridge or full bridge?
3. Can you touch the engine while it is running? I mean isn't there any electroshocks?

Jetijs

[Jetijs]

Thanks Aaron
I will see what SCR's I can get tomorrow. Another question, did you disconnect your inverter before each pulse, like in the basic water spark circuit? Or did you use a simple circuit like this:


Also, I checked my UPS, it is outputs a modified sine wave
Thanks,
Jetijs

[tstorey]

Effect on instruments

I am going to throw two bits in on a couple of posts. You guys are amazing and please post results (even small observations) when you get them and I will try to say something useful. The use of a liquid filled compass available at Walmart for $4.99 will help immeasurably as the size and characteristics of the field being generated will help with further conclusions..Before the effect, above the effect, below it, all around it...after it is shut off....at distances...etc.

First, if the engine is grounded I don't think "you" will become the ground. The utility guys do use a ten foot pole for a reason and I imagine home depot might have one...lol. "Honey? What are you doing with that thing?"

Second, he is using diesel and it seems to be working aok....do you know why? Quiz over.....He is "cracking" the dang diesel (this "effect" can crack the atmosphere in your workshop)...plenty of hydrogen in diesel too. Obviously, carbon fuel type combustion characteristics are what the "engine" is designed for, so weaning in steps from carbon fuel to all water might just be a dang good idea for this process of discovery.

Vapor...look at Pogue's patent (1926?)for affirmation of the use of gasoline vapor in a carb....issue is modern fuel formulations discourage the cracking/vaporization qualities of your basic Shell unleaded. I assure you this...NOTHING is going to discourage this "effect." It will crack the hydrogen out of the additives put in at the refinery along with the gasoline and the air coming in the intake and everything else.

The effect is FAST. This is your shock wave and a lot of other stuff. It hits the air so damn fast you have a sonic boom. Thank you Lee. Awesome points that make solid sense. It helped me understand the technical component of this.

Now for the title of the post.

The effects of the "effect" on your instruments is important. It is telling us what it is....and kicking the spit out of your equipment in the process. Get the PC away! It may effect the camera, but, the camera will be less likely to freak out....badly.....what will probably happen with a small battery run device is it will discharge the battery...have you guys been discharging camera batteries at a high rate? As before, any small observations may end up being huge...mouses roar...sometimes.

What might be occurring with the camera. The battery is powering the critter with...electron flow...Meanwhile, the effect is, in a way, "charging" the air in your work areas. This type of "effect" can interrupt the electron flow in the battery and "suck" the electrons toward the effect and away from the camera (dead battery). Effects of this type have been observed and recorded in science.

Luc used a strainer with is last video and all of his devices went nuts. Up until now, a lot of the effect replications have been about pop...pop...pop. In other words the effect has been a brief pulse. Luc, you had a steady pulse going for quite awhile. Electric fields charge effect is magnified by a steady pulse. This in turn strengthens the corresponding magnetic field and "involves" more atmospheric particulate/ions. Devices that are 36 inches away are profoundly effected even though they are not "plugged in."

I say you are creating current in the air around the effect as the ions flow towards it. There is "atmospheric electron FLOW." This "current in the air" is contained in the corresponding magnetic field. Anything within the field will be impacted...agreed, keep away from the car!

I am going to make some odd potential conclusions here
simply because, at this early stage, they fit.

The effect sends blast of ions into the atmosphere. They combine with free protons creating, among other things, hydrogen and hydrogen isotopes (not enough to be dangerous, but, contributing to the effect) In this process electrons give up a whole bunch of photons in a full spectrum display.

This blast effects the atmospheric particles in your work areas. Electron flow is influenced profoundly by the lines of force in the magnetic field..... Luc has a "big" magnetic field with his strainer effect. The devices within the field are "plugged in" to the field and the particle flow within same field. Ok...? Get the PC away. An electrical device is designed to run on current. It really isn't that concerned with how the current gets to it, it isn't that smart. This strainer effect is "steady". This steady continuous pulse makes for a far larger magnetic field which in turn is imposed on the devices in the work area. Thus, making them "work"...............sort of.


Conclusion......big magnetic field...lots of current flow within field (which is what makes it "big" in the first place)....stuff in the field...gets charged by the particle flow within the field making devices go nuts.

Peter and Aaron are having a hard time with devices near the lawnmower.
The engine is supporting the magnetic field around the lawn mower. Yes it is grounded to a point but, the particles in the vicinity of the effect are being charged and now that you add the engine to the effect you strengthen the field. (compass anyone?)

The engine provides a steady pulse.,

It makes the field far more powerful/large.

The engine is like an electrical generator as it supports the electromagnetic effect around the lawn mower...it is grounded, sort of, but the effect is not totally grounded. (Can this effect be grounded? Maybe, but do you want to?)

The atmospheric particles in your yard are responding to this charge so profoundly the devices anywhere near it are reacting to particle/ion flow

If it is a positively charged magnetic monopole as opposed to a run of the mill dipole we will have device problems...this is why:

They aren't designed for a powerful, fundamentally ungrounded steady pulse of positively charged particles. What this MIGHT be doing (if it is a mag/mono) is attracting every damn electron in the place (work area/yard whatever).

Why? It is all positive and opposites attract. Any damn electron in the neighborhood with it's negative charge is going to run like heck at the pulsing positive charge of the effect. It might be a magnet for electrons. If you have electrons in a battery in the car or the camera nearby? They are going to head for this jumbo sized anode.

Maybe, you are creating a great big high voltage anode and the world around the effect becomes the cathode and all heck breaks loose.

The planet has a fundamental "ground" or negative charge. You might be creating an effect that will create a spherical field which pushes outward while atmospheric ion flow surrounds it and pushes back......all we need to support this conclusion? A flying lawn mower. (this is where the ten foot pole comes in) Norad is gonna sh** when they see this on radar....."Honey? The Air Force is on the phone!"

Last point. This effect is getting a lot of the "effect" from the atmosphere around it...think in those terms if you can.


Best to all,

Tom

[gotoluc]

@tstorey,

I went out to Walmart (Canada) and picked up a compass for $7.00 and did tests with it and found no movement of the compass needle. I tested it in many positions of the room. Even if the compass is over the plasma ball it has no change. One thing I found is if I disconnect the RJ45 ethernet jack from my laptop the monitor becomes stable. However all modern measuring equipment becomes useless, I tried a Faraday Cage over the coil and plasma ball and it did not help. I tried long leads on my multimeter so it is far away so I could measure the amps consumed but it still didn't work. However, I just bought on eBay: Milliamp Meter From 1940 Brand New In Box - eBay (item 180271555376 end time Aug-06-08 05:51:57 PDT)
a 1940 analogue 500mA meter wich was made in Sweden and was able to measure around 250mA with it.

Luc

[goldenequity]

waste spark

@ gotoluc;Aaron;Peter;Jetijs
I guess I must have missed something.
How is everyone (on their 4 stroke single cyl) defeating the waste spark
if you are taking your timed ignition pulse from the output shaft/magneto/flywheel etc.?

[gotoluc]

@ gotoluc;Aaron;Peter;Jetijs
I guess I must have missed something.
How is everyone (on their 4 stroke single cyl) defeating the waste spark
if you are taking your timed ignition pulse from the output shaft/magneto/flywheel etc.?

I guess we are just wasting every 2nd spark for now. I'm sure we will deal with this at a later date.

Do you have a simple waste spark circuit to propose?

Thanks

Luc

[Peter Lindemann]

Wasting Away.....

@ gotoluc;Aaron;Peter;Jetijs
I guess I must have missed something.
How is everyone (on their 4 stroke single cyl) defeating the waste spark
if you are taking your timed ignition pulse from the output shaft/magneto/flywheel etc.?

GoldenEquity,

All small engines of this type produce one spark for each revolution of the shaft. Of course, the only ones that help drive the engine are the ones that occur at the end of the compression stroke. The ones that occur at the end of the exhaust stroke are wasted.

What is the problem? Right now, our system uses approximately .3 Joules per spark. There is no need to defeat the waste spark, since wasting it is half the fun!

Actually, I don't think you have answered my question yet, which was "why are you trying to run a gas engine on diesel fuel?"

Peter

[goldenequity]

Margaritaville..

Hi Peter..
Sorry for not answering your question.
That is not my video..... the experimenter (Indonesia) replicated gotoluc's circuit and posted his efforts with the gas engine using diesel fuel.... I just ran across it and thought it might generate some discussion and have application to the direction of this thread.... Luc reposted to Overunity as well.

I just found it fascinating that he could get the engine to turn over AT ALL using diesel fuel in a carburetor.... as diesel does not like to vaporize... imo it proves that the "effect" is able to combust almost anything and I'm very excited at the intentions to try very lean A/F ratios with water mist.... I believe it can handle it easily.

As far as the waste spark.... I'm not concerned about "wasting" the power.... I'm more concerned about pushing the waste spark into the Intake Stroke as we desire to retard the timing past TDC (to take advantage of the incredibly fast burn rate when we include hydrogen into the mix).

It's pretty simple, If we don't eliminate the waste spark.... we can't go past TDC without igniting the intake with an open valve causing a backfire up through the carburetor (an perhaps into an HHO bubbler? )

@Luc
regarding a waste spark circuit.... I don't believe the problem can be solved that way as long as you're taking your cues from the output shaft. On/Off switching won't solve it (imo) because it (the circuit) can't discern between the sparks... an engine will recoil from time to time and upset any cadence you try to sustain by starting the engine in the "correct" position, it'll end up being hit or miss.... either right on or 180 degrees off. Mechanical is the only practical solution to enable 1 spark per 4 strokes (imo) and it must be a 2:1 ratio with the output shaft (like points on a cam shaft!)
I believe the Honda engines have an overhead cam shaft...not sure about others... but as long as you can tap into a cam shaft with whatever engine you are wrestling with, and then setup up the ignition trigger, i.e. points/reed/mag switch... that would be the way to go.

[Aaron]

What Limits Lean Operation in Spark Ignition Engines--Flame Initiation Or Propagation

I'm very much interested in this paper:
What Limits Lean Operation in Spark Ignition Engines--Flame Initiation Or Propagation?

Does anyone happen to have a copy?

[Aaron]

lawnmower timing

I was chatting with Peter today and it was brought to my attention that when we set the timing of our reed on the plate where the magneto goes, it is set to trigger probably about 10-13 degrees before TDC. Stock magneto goes at about 15 before TDC so we're closer to the stock timing. I was thinking we were just a hair before TDC but we're not.

[goldenequity]

Burn rate

I think the burn rate is something to be considered as we move towards bringing the circuit into the ICE.

Peter, you mentioned that the spark is initiated at the last part of the compression stroke... and the ONLY reason for that is because of the slow burn rate of gasoline.... otherwise it makes no sense to initiate power pushing DOWN on a piston that is trying to come up.
(and this is THE reason why gas engines are so inefficient).

As we are bringing this "effect" of plasma into the combustion cycle, I suspect it has the capability to fully/completely combust whatever fuel we feed it.... and do it very quickly (fast burn rate.)

We will want to enjoy this tremendous benefit by igniting the mix well into the power stroke .... and that means moving our timing past TDC.

[tstorey]

Luc,

Keep compass on work bench....you never know. The Gaussmeter is some bucks.
Other mag field measurment devices are more expensive. I get a nice 25 degree pop from the compass when I fire my submerged arc.

Thank you for getting back.

[Guest]

Re. I'd love to help.

Peter,

Solved the timer problem, it was simply a bad connection with the relay diode.
I have been looking again at your relay picture. On the mini circuit, is Terminal 5 bridged to T6 and connected to the + ve of the cap. Then the - ve of the cap, connected to T4? If so, the schematic that I asked to be reviewed, was wrong and the problem is solved. I have exactly the same relay as you.

Re. The specs of the Microwave diode. It definitely has 14.4 KV and .5 MA hand written on it, it was given to me (I have another on order) by an electronics engineer, who told me it was within spec. of your diagram. I have it hooked up with the "arrow" which he informed me, always points towards the cathode end, attached to the high voltage +ve. terminal of the coil and the cathode end attached to the low voltage +ve. of the coil.

I found the engineer's patronisation to be counter productive, he is no longer involved in the project and I have been preoccupied with building the engine, hence my delay in response. Thanks again for the input.

Rgds
D.